Bullets and powder for new black powder rifles

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  • Last Post 05 March 2015
Randy posted this 16 November 2014

i am going to buy a new black powder rifle, break open type with 209 primer system and was wondering if I could still shoot my loose black powder and maxi balls in them or if it had to be the pellet type powder and sabot type bullets, since I have a large supply of it that I use in my older rifle. I just don't want to screw up anything

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R. Dupraz posted this 16 November 2014

Check with the manufacturer of the intended new rifle.

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onondaga posted this 16 November 2014

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2947>Randy

You generally can use BP and sabots in newer BP rifles, but check the rifle instructions for clarity. You should be able to download the specific rifle instructions from the maker's home site.

The rate of twist in the newer rifles is usually faster than older rifles, so bear in mind that the faster the twist, the more powder fouling you will get with genuine BP.

Consider what I have done. I donated my real BP to a new shooter starting in muzzle loading and using traditional BP rifle that he really wants to shoot with genuine BP.

I have switched completely to Alliant BlackMZ, this BP substitute has the lowest ES chronographed of any muzzle loading propellant ever, bar NONE. The BMZ is also the cleanest shooting ML propellant I have ever used and I can shoot all year with little to zero cleaning.

The Alliant BlackMZ is available and cheap!: http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/index.html

$19.60/lb and in stock. Even with HAZMAT and shipping, this is cheaper than any local ML powder when you buy 3 or more pounds of the stuff. I am on my 5th pound and love the stuff.

Gary

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Randy posted this 16 November 2014

Thanks for the info, I found the manual on the rifle and it says I can use both just recomends loose powder with old lead bullets, i like your idea my son in law wants to start black powder shooting so might give it to him, but i' ll make him get his own rifle. Thanks again for your time and help

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onondaga posted this 16 November 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2947>Randy

Plain old lead bullets actually shoot the best for me. The heavier  320 gr . 50 caliber  Lee R,E,A.L. cast in certified pure lead is the best shooter for me with hunting charges, 75-90 grains, of Alliant BMZ.

I cast that bullet in pure lead, tumble lube it 45:45:10 and use 2- .060” fiber wads, then a dab of any ML lube over the wads before I place and drive the bullet and wads down with a practiced 80 pound push.

The 80 gr BMZ load bench rest shoots 5 shot, 1” groups for me at 50 yards with my Lyman Great Plains rifle with 1:32 twist barrel and Lyman Peep Sight. I can do better accuracy with a patched round ball and a 1:60 twist barrel on the same rifle but the heavy Lee hunting bullet and faster twist barrel with BMZ powder and the 2 wads is what I hunt with for Bear and Deer.

http://leeprecision.com/mold-d-c-50cal-320.html>http://leeprecision.com/mold-d-c-50cal-320.html

I bet your rifle would like the same bullet/load....Caution, this load has significant recoil!

Gary

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Gene posted this 18 November 2014

Gary, Do you shoot Alliant MZ in your Lyman GPR  with 1:60 twist and if so do you use a regular #11 or the Magnum #11 ?? So far I can't find anyone around here that carries it !!! Thanks  Gene

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onondaga posted this 18 November 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1200>Gene

I use the BMZ with both 1:60 and 1:32 barrels. THe BMZ ignites easily with standard #11 caps. I happen to use CCI #11 caps, but had some very old CVA caps that worked fine too.

The stuff is easy to light and can be used in Flintlicks for a main charge. I'd still recommend a standard 4F BP for the primer charge in a rocklock, but Alliant gives no special instructions for rocklocks other than BMZ is suitable for all muzzle loaders. The Alliant BlackMZ is available and cheap!: http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/index.html>http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/index.html

$19.60/lb and in stock. Even with HAZMAT and shipping, this is cheaper than any local ML powder when you buy 3 or more pounds of the stuff. I am on my 5th pound and love the stuff.

My local supplier doesn't carry it either, I get it from Powdervalley.

Personally, for me, with the match results I have achieved with BMZ, I now consider all other muzzle loading propellants obsolete and will only use Alliant BMZ.

Gary

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Gene posted this 18 November 2014

Gary, Thanks, also do you have a GPR/flintlock..I am seriously considering getting one, but I'm afraid the lock won't spark reliably..........then I'll have two that won't shoot !!! Thanks again Gene

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onondaga posted this 18 November 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1200>Gene My GP is percussion but I have used and am familiar with the GP flintlock. It has a powerful lock with coil springs and deep case hardened frizzen...A good sparker.  The flints themselves are of great importance. I am a flint knapper and very familiar with grading flint for quality. Not many flintlock shooters know much about flint quality.

My advise. pay the extra cost and use cut Agate for gun flints. They have 4 edges and spark many hundreds of times per edge. I have used my local Onondaga flint with great success too. English gun flints in general, are pitiful in my opinion.

American Indiana Hornstone and Onondaga Chert, Black Pitkin Chert and Florida agatized Coral, even petrified wood that is agatized,   each selected for high grade, high silica content and glassy shine make superb strong and long lasting gunflints. Arkansas Novaculite is widely sold for gunflints. even the best grade Novaculite is pitiful for gunflints, it shatters and sparks poorly.

Actually a good Geologist is the best guy to help you select chert for gun flints!

A portion of a cobble of Indiana Hornstone, high grade, with the typical bulls eye pattern. I could turn this into gun flints or arrow points.

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Gene posted this 21 November 2014

Gary, I've tried the cut flints. They didn't work for me in my tc or JB w/large siler. At one time I think someone was advertising traditional flints made here in USA. I'd like to try some of them. I have watched a YT video of an Investarm Hawken (not GPR) and that thing was shootin up a storm. I wish my flinters would shoot like that!!! Thanks Gene

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onondaga posted this 21 November 2014

Gene

I use a small piece of chamois skin in the jaws of the flintlock and set the flint for maximum edge contact to the frizzen upon opening. This sounds simple....It is not!  setting the rock in the lock properly makes all the difference in the world to your quality of sparks you get. Adjusting the flint forward or rearward greatly effects how the action works and sparks. try some different settings on the rock if you have a poor spark.

After many years of rocklock shooting you will discover the guys that use the least amount of primer powder get the best and fastest ignition. Most novices generally use 4 times as much priming powder than what works well . They get huge flashing whooshes and slow ignition. My rocklock rifles shoot with an instantaneous bang when the trigger is pulled. If you get a delayed whoosh bang, you are NOT doing this correctly, your rock set is wrong and your primer is vastly too much.

Gary

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onondaga posted this 22 November 2014

<url=http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1200>Gene and <url=http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2947>Randy  A friend of mine that I consider the best flintknapper in New York State, Ken Wallace, regularly gives tutorials on gun flint knapping. His screen name at <url=http://www.paleoplanet.net/ >http://www.paleoplanet.net/  is Paleoman52 and you can contact him there. Most vendors at the knapp-ins I go to sell their gunflints for $1-2 each and so does Ken. Ken is also an avid flintlock shooter. Here is a link to 2 videos I did of Ken presenting a tutorial on gunflint making:

Part1   Part 2 

The videos are a little noisy as this is a casual setting of my friends gathered in a shelter in Letchworth State Park at our club annual Stone Tool Makers show. We are the Genesee Valley Flintknappers Society in Western New York. Ken uses his own home made tools in this video that are replicas of English tools used hundreds of years ago in the gun flint making trade. Ken is also on FaceBook : https://www.facebook.com/ken.wallace2?fref=ufi Gary

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Dirtybore posted this 27 January 2015

If you need real Black Powder, go on line and look up Coonies Black Powder. That's where I get mine. Anything less just ain't the same a grandpa's.

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Eddie2002 posted this 05 February 2015

I was having trouble getting a good spark with a Investarm rocklock that came from Cabella's. The flint was hitting the bottom 1/4 of the frizzen which was a little soft, not hardened properly. Ended up getting a Siler small pistol frizzen which was a decent fit after a little file work. The geometry of the frizzen is better with a longer bottom and the flint hits it right at the 2/3 point. Tempered it using Automatic tranny oil. Sometimess the flint isn't the problem.

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Dirtybore posted this 05 March 2015

I ended up getting an L & R replacement Hatfield lock and had it put on my Pedersoli Blue Ridge rifle. That L & R lock is much better than the original Pedersoli lock. I sold the Pedersoli lock on eBay for $127.00 and the L & R was $110.00 with about $20 for shipping. Since the two canceled each others cost out, my only real cost was that charged be a gunsmith to brown and install the L & R lock.

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