Subsonic Rifle Plinking loads for 311252 77 gr bullet

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  • Last Post 09 November 2015
GBertolet posted this 18 November 2014

Has anyone had experience using this bullet in full sized 30 cal rifle cartridges? A group of us have 30-30, 308, 30-06, 303, 762X54R. Is there a good proven loading using Bullseye, Red Dot, Green Dot, or Unique? Plans are for indoor plinking into a steel plate bullet trap, so 500 to 1000 fps would be in order.

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onondaga posted this 18 November 2014

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1738>GBertolet

None of those powders you mention ignite as easily and burn as well without position sensitivity in large cases with small charges as Hodgdon TightGroup. A powder you could consider for experimentation is H TiteGroup.

Gary

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Ed Harris posted this 19 November 2014

I have had reasonable short-range results with 115-grain .32-20 bullets in the. 30-'06 with 4 grains of Bullseye for 900 fps, with good ballistic uniformity. Grouping was about 1-1/2” at 50 yards with iron sights. Groups strung vertically at 100 yards, but tightened up with 5 grains for 1080 fps. Bullet was Accurate 31-114D sized to. 312"

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Eddie2002 posted this 19 November 2014

I've been using a 100 grain .312 boolit over 5.5 grains of Bullseye with some success in my 30-06, 7.7 Jap and 91/30. I'm using the boolit as dropped from a Lee 100 grain mold made for .32 caliber pistols. The load work a lot better using a small pinch sized wad of cotton tamped down onto the powder charge. You only need enough cotton to hold the powder in place. I also have tried Greendot which gives a larger spread at 50 yds.

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Larry Gibson posted this 20 November 2014

Use Bullseye powder; 2.7 gr in 7.62x39 thru 300 Savage capacity. Use 3.2 grin in the .308W thru 30-06 case capacity. Those loads work very well with that bullet up through the 311008. I prefer the TL314-90-SWC sized .311 for .30 cals and sized .314 or as cast for .31 cals. Velocity will run 800 - 1000 fps depending on bullet, cartridge and barrel length. Very accurate, very quiet and no recoil.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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Eddie2002 posted this 21 November 2014

Don't know if my 5.5 grains of Bullseye pushing a 100 grain boolit is subsonic or not but the recoil and report is simular to a .22 rimfire. At 35 yds the slug will go through 3 stacked pieces of 2x4.

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onondaga posted this 23 November 2014

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1738>GBertolet

A subsonic .308 Win load using H Titegroup from the Hodgdon data site:

       Case:     Winchester      Twist:     1:12&rdquo;     Primer:     Federal 210M, Large Rifle Match      Barrel Length:     24&rdquo;     Trim Length:     2.005&rdquo;                         Bullet Weight168 GR. SIE HPBT                   Starting Loads                               Maximum Loads                                Manufacturer             Powder             Bullet Diam.                                                   C.O.L.                                                                             Grs.                                                   Vel. (ft/s)                                                                                                      Pressure                                                                                                                   Grs.                                                                                                      Vel. (ft/s)                                                                                                      Pressure                                                                                                              <b>Hodgdon  </b><b>     </b><b>        Titegroup</b>               .308&rdquo;              2.800&rdquo;                                                                                         8.0 gr               1,080 fps               25,000 CUP

New loads are being developed frequently for this excellent powder in low velocity applications. Hodgdon Technical dept will also advise and recommend loads with H TiteGroup.

Gary

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GBertolet posted this 23 November 2014

The bullet I had in mind to try is the 311252 77 gr bullet. It's nornal application is for the 32ACP.

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onondaga posted this 23 November 2014

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=1738>GBertolet

You should be able to get that little 77 gr 2 groove round nose pistol bullet shooting with low velocity in 30 caliber rifles. The challenge is in the propellant selection and that bullets that light in 30 cal rifles don't have an appreciable record for accuracy at any velocity. Very close range shooting like indoor gallery at 50 feet or less they could be fun but grouping them less than 1 inch at 50 feet will be a challenge.

The size cartridges in 30 cal you mention,  30-30, 308, 30-06, 303, 762X54R are full size rifle cartridges and your target velocity of 500-1000 feet per second will  leave a vast airspace in the cartridge with any powder.

I will go back to my original recommendation H TiteGroup . Hodgdon literally brags in their literature that TiteGroup performs well with tiny charges in large cartridges. I invite you to show me any other manufacturer and powder with that kind of bragging about tiny charges in large cases.  I think TiteGroup is the only safe recommendation for your application and recommend you contact Hodgdon for technical advise.

I don't go that far high in case volume with light bullets in 30 cal but I have excellent load with less than 1/2” groups at 50 Yards with the Lee TL314-90-SWC and 2.9 gr TiteGroup in a single shot 7.62X39 rifle. Velocity clocked 1160 fps. That is a 90 gr flat nose semi wadcutter bullet sized to .312' for my rifle and only tumble lubed.

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GBertolet posted this 23 November 2014

Thanks onondaga. The main intended use is indoors at under 50 feet. If the load is capable of hitting a 1 inch orange target dot, it's good enough.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 24 November 2014

i used 0.314 full wadcutter 90-100 gr commercial bullets from midway etc. in my 30-30 hr handi-rifle. 11 cents ea;, 3 gr. bullseye, but still a potent load at 75 feet on tin cans; never had a wounded one crawl away.

it would require a substantial bullet trap.

ken

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Rich/WIS posted this 06 February 2015

I have had a lot of fun with the Lyman 311576 with 5 gr of Bullseye out to 50 yards. This was Lyman's 30 carbine bullet, designed to be 120grs. I use range lead and it comes in about 122/3 grs. Have two 03A3s that love it.

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Ed Harris posted this 08 February 2015

Best .30 cal. gallery bullet I have used to date is Accurate 31-134D, which is a “stretched” 31-114D with .05 wider base band and. 05 longer tapered nose. Normal as-cast diameter is .314 for .303 British, 7.62x39 and 7.64x54R used as “Partisan Poacher” with 4 grains of any fast burning pistol or shotgun powder. You can order the mold smaller in diameter, but I have had good luck casting soft, 1:30 tin/lead and sizing .310 for the. 30 cals. and using as-cast and unsized in the 7.62x39, .303 Brit. and 7.62x54R.

Charges are 4 grains of Bullseye in the 7.62x39, 5 grains in. 30-30, 6 grains in. 303 Brit. or. 308 Win. and as start load in the '06.  Above 6 grains in the '06 is supersonic, but accuracy is good to 7.2 grains approaching 1300 fps.  The subsonic loads shoot well out to 100 yards, with grouping better than ball ammo. Use 300 yard ir meter sight dope for 100 yards.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 08 February 2015

you should also try round ball loads for 50 ft plinking ... these for some silly reason can be the most accurate at short range ... try to find balls a little bigger than your grooves ... it would be a decent guess that a diameter to fit your free bore would be even better, but i never found commercial balls that were freebore diameter.

i shoot round balls in my 45-70 and my was my most accurate ( at 75 feet ) in my 44 mag. rifle.

besides, how much fun it would be to beat your buddies when using round balls !!

ken ... hey, maybe we should have a plinking nationals ?? sponsored by budweiser or pepsi ...who would donate tin cans ... preferably still full ...

winner would be the biggest grin ... measured to the nearest 0.0001” of course ...joe could keep statistics ... oh, naturally no gas checks allowed ...

oh, and 22 centerfires get to shoot at half-distance ..

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M3 Mitch posted this 25 September 2015

I'm not certain if the load is subsonic or not, but a light charge of 2400 under an old Lyman 3118 bullet (I have a 4-cavity mould for this bullet)gives “minute of beer can” accuracy in my old M70 30-06 (one made in 1948). At the range at first people who don't know me think it's some sort of .22 Rimfire Magnum.

I don't recall the charge weight so will refrain from guessing about it on here. I think I found the load in a Lyman handbook.

I do have a mould for the 77-gran bullet and I do use that in a Colt 1903 pistol, but have never tried it in a rifle. 

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M3 Mitch posted this 09 November 2015

The most recent issue of Rifle magazine has an article by Mike Ventirino on shooting “squib” loads in military rifles of WW II. Worthwhile picking it up IMHO, but the bottom line is that Mike used an 87 or 83 grain round nose pistol bullet with 5 grains of Trail Boss (same load in several different cartridges, '06, .303, 7.62X54, etc.) to get subsonic rounds like you originally asked about.  He did use a different bullet in the .303, and used some purchased cast bullets and some he cast himself, the ones he cast, he cast in linotype.

To me, common sense says that if this load is safe and mild with an 87 grain bullet, it would be the same with a 77 grain one.

I'd just pay attention to the as-cast diameter versus throat/ball seat dimensions. An undersized plain base bullet has never shot well for me in anything.

If you are willing to get a new mold, a design like Ed Harris is using in the 380, scaled down to 32 ACP dimensions, might work well and would have more meplat for small game work, and/or might cut a bit better hole in a target. Round nose cast bullets are sort of notorious for passing through either paper or flesh and making a hole about like an ice pick.

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