Cream of Wheat-anybody?

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  • Last Post 19 May 2016
tturner53 posted this 22 January 2016

Anybody still messing around with COW filler? It was a big deal a while back. Eliminates need for lube.

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onondaga posted this 22 January 2016

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2514>tturner53

  Loaders considering the use of cream of wheat should not ignore the actual weight of the COW in the load they are seeking. A particular example is that COW weighs 4 times as much per volume as BPI Original filler.  An important safety guide when using a filler is to add the weight of the filler to the weight of the bullet for a total projectile weight.   Fillers are shot with the bullet and filler weight definitely adds to projectile weight when doing safety calculations for ballistic pressure. Ignoring that is the principal concern that gives fillers a bad reputation for safety.   Another “filler” that is extremely light in weight and works with 45-50 caliber is 1/2” diameter foam rope used for a modern window caulking. The Frost King window caulk is in most hardware stores this time of the year and online too:

20 feet, 45-50 cal. for $5.55 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQSSXY?keywords=Frost%20king%20window%20caulk&qid=1453493563&ref_=sr_1_fkmr1_3&sr=8-3-fkmr1>http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQSSXY?keywords=Frost%20king%20window%20caulk&qid=1453493563&ref=sr1fkmr13&sr=8-3-fkmr1

It is also available in 3/8” for 35-40 caliber $2.84 for 20 feet: http://www.amazon.com/Frost-King-C21H-8-Inch-20-Foot/dp/B000BQS6HM/ref=pd_bxgy_60_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1VF2B51A71HTG7X3M27D>http://www.amazon.com/Frost-King-C21H-8-Inch-20-Foot/dp/B000BQS6HM/ref=pdbxgy603?ie=UTF8&refRID=1VF2B51A71HTG7X3M27D

The foam should be cut to the length of the air space in your load plus 6% to create a light weight filler wad that will keep propellant very mildly compressed and against your primer.

The BPI Original is a meterable high heat plastic particulate that is very light weight at 4 times lighter than cream of wheat. Available direct from BPI or through MidwayUSA:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BUFFER>http://www.ballisticproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BUFFER

NOTE that none of these 3 products has the least desirable characteristics of cream of wheat. Cream of wheat is heavy and it sucks moisture out of the air and retains moisture in your load.

Gary

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onondaga posted this 22 January 2016

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=2514>tturner53

The scrubbing effect of COW when used as a filler shouldn't be the deciding factor for the use of COW as a filler. The inexpensive filler from Precision Reloading sold as a Buck Shot filler is also marketed for it's scrubbing characteristic when used as a ballistic filler in straight walled or bottleneck cartridges. This product is about 1/2 the weight per volume of COW and it is inert and does not attract moisture from the air. Precision Reloading Spherical Shot-shell Buffer also meters very well:

 https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=PR&i=PSB22>https://www.precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=PR&i=PSB22

A safety concern with this particular product is spillage. Spill this stiff on a hard floor and it is like a layer of micro ball bearings. You will go flying if you try to walk across a spill of this stuff!

One particular application with PRPSB that has given me remarkable accuracy results is heavy cast bullets with a light load of H380 in 30-06 Springfield. When H380 is mildly compressed with a filler, ignition is excellent and reliable. Without the PRPSB filler in this load, ignition is spotty and accuracy is poor.

Gary

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 January 2016

consider also not only the weight of filler but the reduced case capacity ... i would think cow etc. is drastic ... the light foams not so much .


i always read that cow loads without bullet lube were not quite as accurate ... but left the barrel clean .... being as how the cow is always behind the next bullet ... is the problem that every shot is a fouling shot ??

can we put a bullet lube in with the cow ? a carnuaba ball right under the bullet might be interesting . or moly powder mixed into the cow ... or heck some greasy cow ...or greasy powdered pe ...

cow/powdered corn cob would be cheeper than gas checks ...

wish i had an accurate cast gun to try some of these things ... would it make my 4 moa deer guns shoot 3 moa ???

ken

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Brodie posted this 22 January 2016

If you could get the deer inside 30 ft. you could probably dispense with the bullet. I think it was John Alexander who wrote in the FS that he shot a wad of COW (being used to fire form cases) through a 3/4 in. piece of plywood from 20+ ft. across his basement. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 January 2016

heh when i wuz a young mean little kid i loaded cow into my 16 ga. win 37 ... blew up paper wasp nests at 25 feet ...

ken

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John Alexander posted this 22 January 2016

Brodie,

I will plead guilty of a lot foolish things.  Let me tell you about drying out damp powder in a toaster oven while the better half was away.  But it wasn't me that shot the plywood with the COW.  I don't want to take credit away from the innovator.

John

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Brodie posted this 22 January 2016

John, MY BAD.

B.E.Brickey

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joeb33050 posted this 23 January 2016

A light load and case filled with COW will clean any bore I've ever tried it in. If it cleans that good, do it hurt the barrel? After a lotta experimenting, I never found a problem, but never found an accuracy improvement.

But

When I go to the range with a new gun/load that I suspect MIGHT lead, I'll load a couple of COW loads over a little Unique-and if the gun leads, they clean it quick. This has worked for me maybe 3-4 times , the rest of the times I get no lead and just shoot the COW loads.

BTW, COW loads WILL de-lead a revolver barrel, quickly.

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Newt posted this 23 January 2016

I've never heard of this before. Sounds like a useful tool. How do you load COW loads that you just use to clean lead out?

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onondaga posted this 23 January 2016

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=9555>Newt

If you have a selection of powders that are applicable, select the one with the lowest pressure and use a START load minus 5-10%.  You need to calculate the weight of the COW you use. Put more than enough COW in your scale pan and note the weight. Take cow from the pan and fill the available air space to the base of your bullet seating depth and add 6%. now note your scale again and determine the weight of the cow you have used.  either weigh each charge of filler now or use the correct Lee scoop for subsequent loads.

SAFETY includes adding the weight of the cow to your bullet and using loads for  a bullet of that total weight. eg. a 147 gr bullet plus 13 grains of cow equals a 160 grain total projectile weight . so the load will have to be safe for a 160 gr bullet.

You will have to do this with dummy loads a couple of times with the exact charge you determine and the amount of filler you determine to get good safe START, or lower,  load level for the total projectile weight with COW.

Do not neglect the weight of the filler plus bullet as your total projectile weight when searching the load.  Neglecting that can easily put your load in a dangerous high pressure situation.

Caution: It ain't a kids game, foolish error will blow your face off.

A serious safety error often overlooked is in powder selection. Do not use a powder where book START and MAX are the same. Those powders are blow your face off wrong to use with any filler. The wider the span between book START and MAX is the better the load will be for safety with COW and START minus 5-10% level.

Gary

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tturner53 posted this 23 January 2016

Search the archives for COW info. A former member here who went by “Molly” did a lot of experimenting with COW as a filler. He never claimed accuracy improvements. Just “hunting” accuracy with as cast, unchecked, unlubed, soft, cast bullets at nearly factory load velocities. A side benefit was a really clean bore. I've messed with it and got similar results. No doubt the new synthetic fillers have advantages. With COW you're on your own. I made a point of drying my COW out pretty good before using. Never had a problem but it's an iffy area. I went so far as to shoot COW and dacron filler together in a Garand heavy load. Worked fine but I won't do it again.

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Newt posted this 23 January 2016

Thanks. I think I would only use it for the cleaning purpose myself. Wasn't sure if that was with or without a bullet.

Now I do intend to try some Dacron filler and gas checked bullets unlubed. I've used Dacron before to use for powder position. But just recently wondered if it would do something similar in preventing gas blow by, like COW, but with a lot less weight associated with it.

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onondaga posted this 23 January 2016

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=9555>Newt

Dacron and COW specifically do nothing to stop gas blow by. One particular filler is marketed to specifically create a quasi gas check effect and aid in sealing off gas blow by. BPI Original makes this claim and my testing and evaluation of the product supports the claim.

Gary

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joeb33050 posted this 24 January 2016

Newt wrote: I've never heard of this before. Sounds like a useful tool. How do you load COW loads that you just use to clean lead out?I use a “normal” load of Unique, a load that is used with average weight cast bullets. In 308 Win I use 10 grains of Unique, fill the case with COW, scrape a little out and put a grease wad or a smear of vaseline or bullet lube in the case mouth to hold it together. For 45-70, 12 grains of Unique. NO BULLET! 2-3 of these cleans the lead out for me, if no lead in the barrel, I just shoot them before leaving the range.

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Scearcy posted this 24 January 2016

Will this COW procedure work in a revolver s well or does the cylinder gap cause a problem?

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joeb33050 posted this 24 January 2016

JHS wrote: Will this COW procedure work in a revolver s well or does the cylinder gap cause a problem?Well, it worked for me. My last revolver was a M29, and some bought bullets leaded, just like small bullets in the BH 50 years ago. The COW took the lead right out. I remember buying a Lewis Lead Revolver for lead in a M27 maybe 35 years ago. Another long-standing, well- advertised item that never worked for me. Like Marvelux and soft gas checks. SOME HAVE WRIT THAT COW clumps up into hard lumps and will blow up bottle necked cases. I don't believe it, never clumped up in the box, but I don't keep COW cases around-safe/sorry.

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waksupi posted this 26 January 2016

In bottle neck cartridges, I have experienced finding compacted COW inside the case around the shoulder area after firing. I quit using it.

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Newt posted this 26 January 2016

waksupi wrote: In bottle neck cartridges, I have experienced finding compacted COW inside the case around the shoulder area after firing. I quit using it.

Were you using it with or without a bullet? I have heard this same thing.  Main reason I am hesitant to try.  But I think I am going to try it in my .223, just not use a bullet.

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joeb33050 posted this 26 January 2016

Newt wrote: waksupi wrote: In bottle neck cartridges, I have experienced finding compacted COW inside the case around the shoulder area after firing. I quit using it.

Were you using it with or without a bullet? I have heard this same thing.  Main reason I am hesitant to try.  But I think I am going to try it in my .223, just not use a bullet.

For cleaning/removing lead, NO BULLET! For shooting bullets with COW: 1. I never found an accuracy improvement 2. I'd not recommend this with a  bottle neck case, although I've shot many. 3. Why?

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Newt posted this 26 January 2016

Thanks Joe.

I am most interested in the cleaning ability. The .223 is such a small bore, and on my gun it is a long barrel. While I am not looking at it for a total cleaning solution, it would be nice to be able to shoot a few after working with some questionable loads.

I wonder if it would do the same thing for copper fouling? Corrosion? While I do not think I have any, I do have one spot, near the end of the barrel, I think may be from the previous owner having some condensation or something get on it. I have tried to clean it out with gun cleaners but it still is there. Doesn't seem to effect accuracy, but it will be interesting to see what the COW does.

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