35 - 45 BHN

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  • Last Post 03 June 2016
mtngun posted this 05 March 2016

Here is a BHN chart for heat treated reclaimed shot (470 F) and for heat treated Super WheelWeight Plus Sulfur (465 F).   

I'm still collecting age data and shooting data.   When I have enough data I'll submit a detailed article on the subject to TFS.

In the meantime --  yes, 35 - 45 BHN cast bullets are possible without brittleness.   They seem to have a slight advantage over conventional alloys at high velocity, though you probably won't notice an improvement at lesser velocities.

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delmarskid1 posted this 05 March 2016

What is super wheel weight? How is sulfur added?

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mtngun posted this 05 March 2016

"Super Wheel Weight”  (SWW) was my attempt to recreate Dennis Marshall's 6% antimony alloy which he reported could reach 36+ BHN.   http://www.mountainmolds.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=541>Deets here.   Basically it's 1 part Rotometals Superhard, 1 part reclaimed shot, and 7 parts clip-on wheelweight.   

It did eventually reach 40 BHN, but took a month to do so.

Seeking to make it harder, faster, I http://www.mountainmolds.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=548>added 1% powdered sulfur by weight to SWW.     Don't try this indoors because the sulfur bursts into flames and the gases will make you choke, as I learned the hard way. :D    Stir it in while standing upwind.     Not all of the sulfur will dissolve, much of it burns, and some of it clumps and will be skimmed off when you flux.   Nonetheless apparently some sulfur does dissolve into the lead and has a Viagra effect when the bullet is heat treated.

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Brodie posted this 05 March 2016

mtngn, That rotten egg smell when the sulphur burn is H2S.  H2S is more toxic than Cyanide.  At 2 parts per Million it anesthetizes the olfactory nerves, and you can't smell it any more.  H2S kills by removing the Iron molecule from the red blood cells preventing them from carrying Oxygen and you suffocate.  I know when I was at Standard Oil in El Segundo the boss that broke me in on one job failed to warn me about one sample that was 40% H2S.  They found me on the floor of the lab passed out.  When H2S comes into contact with water it forms H2SO4 or Sulfuric Acid.  You may have noticed an irritation of your throat and or nasal passages following the inhalation. 

Good Report Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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mtngun posted this 05 March 2016

"Irritation” is an understatement.   :D  :D  :D

Yeah, I've worked around H2S in a phosphate smelter and we had to wear monitors in certain parts of the plant.   Sometimes I amazed that I'm still alive when I think about all the dangerous chemicals I've been exposed to over the years.

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tturner53 posted this 05 March 2016

What do you use to test the BHN? I have tons of scrap lead and am looking to buy a hardness tester. Try to find out what I've got without the expensive lab tests.

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mtngun posted this 05 March 2016

I use http://www.mountainmolds.com/bhn.htm>a homemade tester.   It looks Mickey Mouse but actually works quite well because it applies a known weight to a known indenter without any indirect mechanisms or indirect measurements.    The article at the link is dated and I have made some minor upgrades since then, but the basic operating principle remains the same.

If I were buying one I'd probably go with the CabinTree which apparently is now made by http://cowboybullets.com/Lead-Tester_p_57.html>someone else.   I like that it uses a dial indicator, that strikes me as more reliable than some other tester designs.

If you have a drill press and a bathroom scale, it wouldn't be difficult to use the drill press as a BHN tester.   Put a ball bearing in the chuck, push the ball bearing against the bullet which in turn pushes against the bathroom scale, hold at a certain weight for 30 seconds, measure the indentation.    The rest is math.

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billglaze posted this 06 March 2016

Brodie: For many years, I lived in Inglewood, and later Hawthorne, and Torrance. I was wondering: Does Standard Oil still have the rifle range on the property? As I recall, it was just off Rosecrans Ave.

I have some great memories of the range; I won a Thanksgiving turkey there, Lo! These many years ago. When I came in with my Win. 52, and wearing my shooting coat, my spotting scope, (which they wouldn't let me use! LOL!), I figured it was in the bag. Boy, was it ever in the bag! They quickly came up with a “one turkey per shooter” rule that tickled me no end. When they awarded me a turkey in a burlap bag, live and squawking, I asked “just what am I supposed to do with this?” Fortunately, the man courteously informed me that they had a deal with Hawthorne Poultry, who would clean and dress it. Deal! Sure some fun times! Thanks for putting me in the reminiscing mood!

Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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corerf posted this 06 March 2016

It's now the Chevron Oil employee park and it's and it's only a trap range, open to public, very very top secret, on sepulveda and el segundo Blvd.

Only open on Sunday, if I were not at church serving on Sunday morn I would be there every weekend.

I have a UCLA business associate who wakes on Sunday to the dull pops of the range.

Yep, still there in one form or another!

Mike Several others have used sulfur rather Han arsenic as the heat treat element in their alloy. It does require less than 1% though, I do understand that a huge amount is gassing off and that would require a larger dose to get the solution value up. Have you tried adding the sulfur pre heat at bottom of pot with pure lead or the lowest melt temp metal in your alloy? It's just the antimony that need that sulfur and not much sulfur at that!! 

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Brodie posted this 06 March 2016

coref and billglaze, That range was so secret that I didn't know about it when I worked there in the early 1980's. If they had told me about it and at least had a company Dr. who was honest I might of stayed.  I would have been a lot better off financially.

I am happy to have given you fellows a happy memory though. B

B.E.Brickey

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corerf posted this 06 March 2016

That's twice in a week I've been delivered happy memories here, from the same person no less!

All you lucky ex-pats of CA.... Lucky-

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billglaze posted this 06 March 2016

Coref:Many thanks to you and Brodie for the memory lane trip.  I was moved to Cal. as a child when my Dad saw a better opportunity for work.  He went to work for Douglas in Santa Monica.  (DC-2's and 3's) and in 1939 went with North American Aviation in Inglewood.IMHO, Cal, was a great place to live, until about 1960 or so.I managed to leave in 1974; I've characterized myself ever since as a “refugee from California.”  The tag was hung on me by a Captain I flew a lot with. Go, Washington High Generals!.”  <VBG> Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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mtngun posted this 23 April 2016

I acquired some more reclaimed shot, but this time from J.R. SHOT LLC on ebay ([email protected]).     This was clean shot that looked like new other than being dinged.     Unlike the dirty Rotometals shot, this stuff was easy to smelt.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 23 April 2016

another source of reclaimed shot is _ badmanbullets.com _ .. they also have other interesting items .. and powder coated pistol bullets ...

ken

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mtngun posted this 23 April 2016

Thanks for the other source, Ken.   :)

65 pounds of the J.R. shot goes for $85 delivered on the 'bay.   That is the best price I found for modest quantities.     If you live on the West Coast you can buy a pallet load for $1/pound plus shipping.   BTW his ebay handle is “studl.joh".

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mtngun posted this 03 June 2016

Since my first batch of Rotometals reclaimed shot was good stuff, I bought some more.    Well, the second batch looked different than the first batch.   Density and hardness are different, too.

Density, and other alloys for comparison: Batch #2 Roto Reclaimed Shot  = 2768 grains per cubic inch Batch #1 Roto Reclaimed Shot = 2719 grains per cubic inch J.R. Reclaimed Shot = 2768 grains per cubic inch

Hardness Air-cooled = 10 BHN  One day after quenched @470F = 41 BHN !   :shock: Wow!   I was surprised it heat treated to 41 BHN despite being only 10 BHN air-cooled.   

Summary:  reclaimed shot is good stuff and worth considering if you must buy store-bought lead.    It's generally the cheapest store-bought lead you can find.     The drawback is that it does vary significantly from batch to batch.  

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tturner53 posted this 03 June 2016

How high does the hardness tester (Cabin Tree clone?) go?

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mtngun posted this 03 June 2016

tturner53 wrote: How high does the hardness tester (Cabin Tree clone?) go? I can't speak for the Cabin Tree but my homemade tester is limited only by my ability to accurately measure the itty bitty indentation.    With the help of a USB microscope and GIMP's pixel-measuring tool, I can measure to +/- one pixel, which is less than 0.001 inch (1260 pixels per inch in this photo).

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