Bullet sorting method?

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  • Last Post 16 March 2016
barnabus posted this 11 March 2016

I would like yalls opinion on sorting bullets for benchrest competition shooting.Im currently pouring a custom 30BR Lino bullet that will be gas checked and lubed then swaged and pointed.my question is would you sort by weight BEFORE they are lubed/checked (lube & gas check weight varies and i cant control) or would you sort after swaging when the bullet is complete and ready to load. Currently im weighing BEFORE they are checked/lubed and never weigh again and shoot them grouped by initial weight. My bullets weigh 181.2-181.9 consistently straight from the mold.Your thoughts plz?

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R. Dupraz posted this 11 March 2016

As long as you asked for opinions, here's mine. If the weights of your bullets are coming out that close, I would forget about how to weigh them and concentrate on the fundamentals of marksmanship, bench technique and reading conditions.

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John Alexander posted this 11 March 2016

I agree completely with RD. if your bullets are only varying .7 grain, it is a total waste of time to sort them by weight either before or after processing them.  That is less than on half of one percent variation and there is no known valid experimental work to show that sorting such bullets will improve performance.

I know that it's “logical” to weigh sort bullets to .2 or even .1 grain but the logic is based on false assumptions and worthless. One tenth of a grain would be one twentieth of one percent weight variation for your bullet and you have far more important things to worry about.

You don't have to take anybody's word for it.  Shoot ten groups of each while alternating sorted vs. unsorted. If your find a significant difference please write an article for the Fouling Shot describing your methods and results.  

Good luck with the 30BR.  I hope to see you at the nationals with the other folks from SC.

John

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Ed Harris posted this 11 March 2016

I agree with RD and John.

Weighing bullets is mental masturbation. Spend your effort on carefully casting good bullets with are perfect to visual inspection, and spend some time with your reading glasses under a bright light looking first for perfect bases, then for perfectly filled driving bands, smooth noses.

Imperfect bases go back for remelt.

Imperfect bands go back for remelt.

If the bullet has only minor imperfections of less than 1mm in size which are forward of its CG, they can do into the practice and foulers pile, or to shoot in working up loads, doing velocity checks, etc. They actually will shoot pretty good.

I spend more time weighing what goes into my ALLOY than weighing the bullets themselves. Consistent ALLOY every time you add to the pot is what makes consistent bullet weight. Pouring a large sprue to compensate for solidification shrinkage and waiting long enough for the sprue to harden make good bases. I work with one carefully weighed 20-lb. heat of metal at a time and run the pot down to within an inch of the bottom, then I add the sprue back into the pot and I sight cull the bullets just cast while the sprue remelts, adding the culls back to the pot. I flux again each time.

Only after I have cast most of the 20-lb. heat and run the pot down to an inch from the bottom, without any culls or sprue to add do I start weighing lead on the scale to top it off and start over. Bullets from the next heat are kept separate until I have check-weighed a 10-piece sample of each to ensure they weigh the same.

Different heats repeating weight within less than 1% of the mean is excellent! or +/- 1 grain variation of any sample from the mean expected for a 200-grain bullet.  When I was shooting matches I would sort into “+” and “-” piles and “Zero” but I don't bother when shooting iron sights, sporting for cowboy rifles or handguns.  Waste of effort.

That's all I need to know.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 11 March 2016

imho the trick to doing well in competition is to reduce the number of tricks .

ken

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OU812 posted this 12 March 2016

I separate by cavity, sometimes using just one cavity of the two cavity mold when casting.

When pouring from the RCBS bottom pour pot, I try to make sure flow stream hits dead center or slightly touching sprue hole's edge without sprue puddle backing up on top of sprue plate before it enters cavity. Sprue backing up before entering cavity causes rounded bases.

Flow rate is also very important for consistant bullet weights. Too fast flow rate prevents good venting causing round bands and bases.

Good casting technigues can prevent having to weigh, but I weigh anyway to make sure.

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barnabus posted this 12 March 2016

Thanks John. I would like to go to the nationals one year.i just started shooting cast so I got alot to learn now that im over my head.i shoot with HL at CRPC.

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John Alexander posted this 12 March 2016

if I had waited until I didn't have a lot to learn before going to the nationals I would still be waiting.  Jump right in.

Give my regards to HL and the other CB troops at CRPC. John

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billglaze posted this 12 March 2016

Barnabus:I'm up the road a piece, just out of Greensboro.  I was at one of H.L.'s matches a few years back, and it was a great experience.   Agreeing with John about attitude, I promised myself that when I could shoot consistently 190 or better at 100 yds, I'd start to compete.  So far, that goal has not been met--by at least a mile.  So, when I get it all together and get some decent results, (not stratospheric, by any means) and get some loads settled on, I'll probably see you there. The Charlotte club has a beautiful venue, if you haven't been there; I guarantee you'll enjoy it. 

Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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barnabus posted this 12 March 2016

I've been a member at CRPC since 2010 and shot unrestricted pistol with HL until u couldn't get bullets and everyone started shooting cast so I built me a  30br cast bullet pistol. I can shoot in the 190s at 100 but I average about 186 at 200 yards. This is my first year in cast so I do have a lot to learn. I bought a Corbin press and dies to make my bullets. Reading the wind with cast bullets is harder than jacketed bullets when it comes to shooting 10s.Our regionals are may 7&8th at CRPC. you ought to come down and shoot with us

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muley posted this 12 March 2016

barabus, get that rifle ready for the regional in May. We will be down to shoot with u and meet u.

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barnabus posted this 13 March 2016

muley wrote: barabus, get that rifle ready for the regional in May. We will be down to shoot with u and meet u. looking forward to meeting u!  ill be shooting unrestricted pistol.

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muley posted this 13 March 2016

I will be shooting UNP also, I see my work is already cut out.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 13 March 2016

mr. bill .. in my 40 years of racing toy cars i finally noticed that the lower 50 per cent of the finishing order were having 85 per cent of the fun .... don't wait till you are in the top 50 per cent ...

...or if you really need to win ... bring along a buddy that shoots worse than you do ...

ken

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billglaze posted this 13 March 2016

Ken:Just what I've come to expect from you--excellent advice.  As we used to say in my old profession, “Wilco--read you 5 square."Only reason I haven't done so before, (well, O.K., just one of the reasons) is I didn't want to embarrass myself and also embarrass the sport.However, how old do you have to be before you're allowed to say “The Hell with it; I'm gonna do it anyway just for the fun, and because I want to"?So, after all, if I can get there, I'm going. Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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barnabus posted this 13 March 2016

Muley....is there alot of pistol shooters up ur way? 

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barnabus posted this 13 March 2016

Bill... u coming down in May to shoot with us?

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muley posted this 14 March 2016

only about 3or4 here at Tamaqua, Pa.

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barnabus posted this 14 March 2016

Yea about the same here! I love unrestricted pistol. I built a jacketed 6PPC rifle right when the 30 BR was gaining popularity and now it just sits in my safe.I miss shooting jacketed tho.

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billglaze posted this 14 March 2016

Barns as? I'm planning on being at the shoot; if I can get some halfway-decent loads, I'll enter. I love rifle matches. If I can't get something going that will stay on the backstop, I'll come down anyway and spectate; it's been far too long since I've been to one of H.L.'s matches. Don't know about the 200 yd. stage though; never shot cast at 200; no idea how it'll shoot, or how to establish sight settings on the Weaver.

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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billglaze posted this 14 March 2016

Barnabus:Sorry about the mis-spelled name.  My computer took it into it's own head, and I forgot to proof-read. Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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