wheel weights for casting bullets for 45-70

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  • Last Post 19 April 2016
roger2016 posted this 12 April 2016

new to this, i just bought a Springfield 45-70 trap door and i am trying to get as much information as i can. is it OK to use wheel weights for casting bullets for this gun or should i just buy some lead.i have  to cast sinkers with wheel wights but they were not being pushed down a barrel buy black powder.

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onondaga posted this 12 April 2016

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=9828>roger2016

Wheel weight alloy, if it is the old clip-on stuff with a couple percent Antimony, adding 1% Tin will make it easier to cast for a good mold fillout. Clip-on wheel weight Alloy is fine for the usual low pressure loads for the Springfield 45-70 trap door.   Stick-on wheel weight is generally pure lead, or nearly so and too soft for your application. Reclaimed bird-shot and range scrap from jacketed bullets are also suitable, as is, for your application.

Your question is really about alloy suitability for your application. Bullet alloys have a load range that relates to load pressure in psi, not velocity.  You can learn more than you need to know about this basic relationship in chapters 8,9, and 10 of Modern Reloading 2nd Edition, Richard Lee. This is very practical stuff to learn and will lead you away from internet baloney and wives tales. It is very well worth studying and the entire book is very practical for any reloader:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/639649/lee-modern-reloading-2nd-edition-revised-reloading-manual>https://www.midwayusa.com/product/639649/lee-modern-reloading-2nd-edition-revised-reloading-manual

Gary

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roger2016 posted this 12 April 2016

thank you for the information.

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Larry Gibson posted this 12 April 2016

roger2016

If your mould casts to groove or larger diameter (most likely .461+) then using COWWs will be fine if you leave them “as cast” or size them to or larger than groove diameter. As onadaga mention adding tin is a good idea. Add 50% lead to your COWWs and then add 1% tin. That will work quite well with smokeless powders especially. If the bullet is groove diameter and you're using a good BP lube then that alloy will also work well in your Springfield. However, if you are using undersized bullet such as .459s as is often recommended, and depending on “bumping up” for proper obturation of the bore then that alloy may or may not work. If doing that it is always best to go with 30-1, 20-1 or 16-1 lead - tin alloys.

LMG

Concealment is not cover.........

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jhalcott posted this 12 April 2016

I like a softer alloy in my Contender 15"barrel but Wheel weights work okay in my Siamese mauser 24"barrel.

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Ed Harris posted this 12 April 2016

At trapdoor velocities and pressures soft alloy 1:30 or 1:40 has given best accuracy with black powder or suitable light smokeless loads, usually 14 grains of Unique, 28 grains of 4198 or 30-32 grains of RL7 or 3031 with a 370-385 grain bullet.

Wheelweights will work OK IF your mold casts large enough. Most original trapdoors I've measured slugged .462+ and using wheelweights at .460” or less is to guarantee frustration.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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roger2016 posted this 14 April 2016

so far i have bought a lee 459-405hb mold and a rcbs cby3-dieset 45-70 gov't.

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oscarflytyer posted this 14 April 2016

I am shooting the Lee 459-405HB mold/bullet in my Marlin 1895. COWW+2%tin alloy. Run thru a .460 sizer, lubed with 45/45/10 (future ones will be 60/40 lube), 38.5 grn IMR 3031 (Trap Door safe load).

Skinner peep sights. ~2"/50 yd groups (old eyes!). Took a yearling deer with it two seasons ago, ~85 yds. Standing straight away, turned his head, hit in shoulder and flipped him end over. No vitals, so had to make a killing shot. But he wasn't getting up or going anywhere. Most of my hunting is in thick brush. This setup is perfect (for me).

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roger2016 posted this 14 April 2016

thanks for the information

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roger2016 posted this 14 April 2016

thank you all for the information

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Dirtybore posted this 18 April 2016

You can use wheel weight allow in that trap door but in my opinion, you ought to save your wheel weight allow for your smaller caliber firearms and use a softer alloy.

You commented on an alloy you tried but Black Powder didn't push the bullet down the barrel. I'd like to hear more about this because I'm wondering what bullet was used, what bullet alloy was used, and how much black powder you put behind that bullet. I've shot a lot of 45-70 cartridges with black powder, GOEX black powder and bullets weighing from 295 to 535 gr. and have never had a problem.

In most cases, I prefer a softer allow for the big 45 caliber bullets. If I'm using paper patch bullets, I want them even softer. This way they obdurate when pushed by say 65 to 70 gr of 2Fg or 1Fg powder. You didn't mention what bullet you were using or trying to use.

I normally use wheel weight alloy in all of my firearms that are 6.5 mm to .348 cal. I use range scrap in the .44 and .45 cal rifles, and as mentioned above, a softer alloy for the 45 cal. paper patch bullets.

Hope this helps but I'd really like to hear more about that BP failure.

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roger2016 posted this 18 April 2016

 i used wheel weights to cast sinkers for fishing,i have never used wheel weights to cast bullets.this will be a first for me to cast bullets to shoot in a gun and reload rifle ammo.i have heard in the past is that there was to much other material in wheel weights to use to make bullets that it may damage the barrel. but i have had many suggestions on how to use wheel weights.i have had many suggestions on how many gr.of powder and types of powder and bullet weights. i did buy a lee 405 gr.hollow base mold and a rcbs 45-70 cowboy die set so far.the closest place i can get black powder is 30 miles away from me.so i will have wait until i get some time to get down there to get it.thank you for your reply.

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Bud Hyett posted this 19 April 2016

My experience parallels the writing by C E Harris, the Trapdoor barrels are oversize and need bigger bullets with smokeless powder. Years ago I was given five early Lyman .45 rifle molds that cast in the .462/.463 size and did not realize the treasure which I had. I sold these to a friend who had a half-dozen Trapdoors and had been measuring barrels. 

In the 1980's, the oversize molds with light charges of smokeless worked well.The other factor was 30 to 1 Pb/Sn alloy shot the best; harder alloys will double group size. 

Today I am shooting black powder, modern .45-70 barrels and have molds dropping at .459 to .460 with 25 to 1 Pb/Sn alloy. This is the SAECO 1881 mold that copies the original 500 grain round-nose bullet for the Trapdoor rifle. Not the flattest shooting bullet, but I score better with this bullet.

One other item during those days of experimenting; with the lighter charge of Unique powder, 9.5 grains, you can feel the rifle react to the torque generated by the bullet going down the barrel. The rifle will try to back off of the bullet and turn the stock sideways in your hands. You must hold tight to keep the rifle pointed to the center of the target.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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