Muzzle flash/short barrel handguns

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  • Last Post 30 May 2016
tturner53 posted this 25 April 2016

Anybody done a real comparison of powders re. muzzle flash in snubbies and such? Surely there's a study or article out there with actual photos and/or measurements comparing various loads. Factory ammo can be had claiming 'short barrel' specific attributes. I've shot at night and lost a lot of vision when least convenient. Maybe a 1 1/2” barrel is just doomed to be a flamethrower?

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RicinYakima posted this 25 April 2016

I remember a study done in “Handloader"? or maybe “Shooting Times"? in the late 60's early 70's when the S&W Model 60 was new and the latest thing for cops. At that time, Bullseye, SR7625 and W231 were rated as good for reduced flash. Federal had some good stuff loaded for short barrels in the early 70's, when I was in LE and doing night shoots. If you want velocity, the first thing you lose is your night vision, just part of the formula. If I was looking for something now, I would check out Trail Boss or Tight Group. FWIW, Ric

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Brodie posted this 25 April 2016

Between what I have read (don't ask me where) and my own experiences I would put forth the following about muzzle flash: 1.  The slower the powder and the more partially burned gasses that exit the barrel the greater the muzzle flash. 2.  The flash comes from those incompletely reacted gasses meeting the atmospheric oxygen and completing their combustion. 3.  Of course this holds true no matter which firearm or barrel length.

My 22 MRF derringer gives a beach ball sized wad of flame.  I always figured that any assailant would be par-broiled and deafened at the same time. My 45acp creates hardly any muzzle flash when loaded with Red Dot or Bullseye. My 357 Mag. lets about a four foot tongue of flame from a factory magnum load. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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Ed Harris posted this 25 April 2016

If you can tolerate increased smoke, and pay a bit more careful attention to cleaning, a 5% by weight if total charge, of 3Fg black evenly mixed, will greatly rexuce, if not totally eliminate the muzzle flash. A pinch of potassium nitrate or potassium phosphate will also work, and is easier, about one standard shot glass mixed into a pound of powder. Then fill your measure and agittate can to remx before each refill. Aids ignition of slow burners to. Base powder to be mixed with should be of similar particle size. Reduce max loads by 10%.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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tturner53 posted this 28 April 2016

This place is a goldmine! I'm writing that recipe down. Can't wait to try a side by side comparison. Gotta head up pretty far into the forest. Shooting at night could attract attention. My “night gun” is most likely to be a Glock 22 .40 S&W or a S&W M60 .357 Magnum. FWIW, I used a brace of Ruger Old Armys to repel invaders one night a long time ago. (It turned out to be only my imagination!) I don't recall being blinded, but it's been a long time. An old Colt DS with factory FBI loads definitely wiped out my night vision with one shot. Bad feeling.   EDIT; 5% 3F of say 3 gr. Bullseye is a small amount. My math says .15 gr/3F.

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Ed Harris posted this 01 May 2016

Correct, THAT is why you mix a shot glass full into a pound, thoroughly mix, and just fill your measure. Blending Fg with 4831 or 5010 does wonders to light the stuff off in large cases.

FYI 110 grains of 4895 and Fg mix in .50 BMG to simulate 500 yard impact velocity of APIM8 for testing armored car doors...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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joeb33050 posted this 01 May 2016

I like muzzle flash. Burn all the hair off that perpetrator! There's got to be a way to grill a burger with the flash. Has Burger King been alerted? Another capitalistic opportunity! If Quaker Puffed Rice is shot from guns, why not the Whopper shot BY guns? Shoot the lettuce too!

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Brodie posted this 01 May 2016

That's the way I feel with my little 22WMR derringer. If I miss the first shot I have plenty of time for the second. My attacker is too busy brushing the ash from their eyebrows and lashes from their eyes, and are probably deaf and parbroiled to boot. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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358156hp posted this 01 May 2016

Or you could simply source flash suppressed powders. Most of the Accurate Arms/Ramshot pistol powders are flash suppressed. There are limits to flash suppression though.

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Duane Mellenbruch posted this 01 May 2016

I did a search and came up with several hits. I also thought this might give you some references too.

http://www.wwpowder.com/pistol.html

Two of the powders shown refer to low flash. I note that generally, they are fast pistol powders. In my personal experience I know for a fact that 800X with a slightly undersized bullet in 9MM produces an impressive fire ball. Perhaps due to slow powder and light bullet.

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Eutectic posted this 29 May 2016

Several years ago I did an article on flash suppression. None of the gun magazines were interested.  Not suitable for CBA, so it went nowhere. My conversations with powder makers mirror what Ed Harris posted. They use potassium nitrate or sulfate. The black powder idea is neat, it is the potassium nitrate in the powder which does the work.

Some commercial ammo is low flash, you have to test. I would guess most police departments specify low flash loads. Magnums with light bullets and large powder charges are hardest to stop the flash. Yes, short barrels are the worst and any ported pistol puts the flash right up in the line of sight - very bad.

Reloading powders generally are not flash suppressed, adds expense and decreases powder energy. Some are now advertising low flash. Alliant BE-86 is flash suppressed, it is about like Unique in speed. 

I did the pictures for the article at night, great fun.

Steve

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corerf posted this 29 May 2016

That is a great picture. For a pyo like me, it's beautiful. What's interesting is it looks like you can see a shock wave form in a sawtooth pattern much like my waveform gen produces, it would be interesting (to me) to measure then P-to-P distance and find the frequency the gun/round are resonant at.

Sorry, many things fall back to electronics for me, even flames. I digress.

I like the BP add idea. Of course I just like BP. If I could use it to reduce wrinkles in my face, I'd do so.

Ed can you add any information, good or bad, as to use of BP to regulate or otherwise alter the characteristics of the super slow powders surplused from the spotter rounds for 20mm, 50 bmg tracers, etc (read Pats Reloaidng, Jeff Bartlett, etc)?? The super slow powders in a 30-06 case running a cast bullet as reported usually have very incomplete burns. Any assistance the BP might lend, from experience?

Please reply in another thread.

Carry on folks.

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Ed Harris posted this 29 May 2016

1 shot glass 3Fg to a pound of powder, mix well, fill case, carry on is all you nee to know uo to .50 BMG. In larger cases use flash tube with BP booster, .303 Brit or. 30-40 Krag is correct for 1 pounder Hotchkiss deck gun.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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corerf posted this 29 May 2016

Ed I want to make sure I fully understand the suggestion, but not the application method, just the intent. A bit of BP may or will likely improve combustion of the ridiculously slow military pull down powder in smallish cases (relative to original case/application)?

tjat was my original question and I believe that was your answer! Pending confirmation I may get emotional!

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Ed Harris posted this 30 May 2016

You are correct.  It does kill muzzle flash too in the snubby revolvers.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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OU812 posted this 30 May 2016

Alliant's new BE86 is said to reduce muzzle flash.

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