.243 Winchester from scratch

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Scearcy posted this 21 January 2017

There seems to be growing interest among our ranks in shooting smaller calibers.  Much of the attention has been directed to the 223 and 22-250.  This is a good thing as John A, Joe B and others have been providing some real education for me, at least. Rather than following directly in their foot prints I have decided to try to use a 243 Win for this summers matches.  There is precedent as our National Champion about 10 years ago used a 243.  I believe Paul Pollard and his son are also using a 243. 

I have 2-243 Win rifles which will qualify in the Hunter class.  Being neither a machinist nor a skilled artisan I prefer to work with over the counter rifles.  I am telling you this because some of you, more skilled than I, are going to offer advice that I do not have the skills or tools to implement.  What I will share is an unedited pursuit of acceptable accuracy from a rifle I already own.

BE PATIENT!

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Scearcy posted this 21 January 2017

For the record, my rifles are a Remington 700 and a Tikka Hunter.  Both are standard weight rifles and are unaltered in any way.  I can post pictures if anyone is interested.  Both are equipped with scopes of at least 20X.

A couple of months ago I posted a WTB for a 243 mold.  I was able to find three: RCBS 243-95-SP, Lyman 245496 and an Eagan 90 gr.  I have cast 500  of the RCBS and Lyman bullets.  I will post pictures of these yet today.

I intend to use a Lee push through sizing die but have been unable to find one locally.  I will be ordering one today but it will be several days before I am able to begin shooting my own bullets.  In the mean time I am going to compare the two rifles using reduced jackets loads and also using a small supply of RCBS bullets that came with the mold.  My plan is to shoot about 100 rounds out of each rifle.  By that time I am hopeful that one or the other will emerge as more accurate. 

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 21 January 2017

hi mr. scearcy ... this should be interesting ... i too am mostly interested in the 6mm for cast accuracy  ...   keep us informed as to factory rifle choice, bullets, loads, and results ...

my other gun hobby/sickness besides shooting, is trading guns ... i need to hang onto a 6mm or two long enough to get one under 2 moa with cast  ... heh ... i am currently down to a factory barreled rem 700 rechambered to 243 AI, tight neck .... if joeb is right about larger cases doing just fine, maybe i can set some coke cans out to 150 yards !!   i also am down to one old NEI mold in 6mm , it has never shot that great in the past .... but i never used a bullet squisher then ...

joeb has achieved a great 1.5 moa with cast 224 with a good mold, squisher or no squisher,  but if a bullet shoots 5 moa in a good rifle isn't it because the bullet needs squished to fit better ?? 

ken

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Scearcy posted this 21 January 2017

Hi Ken

I enjoyed your input last winter when my project was that CZ 308. I would be happy to send you some of my 243 bullets as I go forward. I will squish them first though I think.  I am also going to use 45-45-10 lube at least initially.

Jim

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Scearcy posted this 21 January 2017

Here are the Lyman and RCBS bullets. I may add rough dimension drawings as we go forward.

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Scearcy posted this 21 January 2017

Ken

The RCBS bullets are .246 +/- .005 on the bands.  The nose right ahead of the first band is .239.  The nose does begin to taper.  I may need to get an NOE nose size die.

Jim

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Scearcy posted this 21 January 2017

Here are my first test loads.  The jacketed bullet is the 70 gr Nosler ahead of 20 gr of H4198.  The cast load is the RCBS bullet seated as deep as it can be w/o going below the neck.  The cast load is charged with 17 gr of H4198.  Velocity unknown.

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Scearcy posted this 26 January 2017

Yesterday I cast 250 Eagan bullets.  I think they will fit the Tikka unsized.  They might be a little light but that only becomes a problem if they shoot well enough at 100 so that I want to use them at 200 yds.  As soon as the nose sizing die shows up from NOE, I am going to use the RCBS bullet to work up a better load for the Remington.

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onondaga posted this 28 January 2017

Scearcy

I'm betting the Lyman bullet will shoot the best because of the short nose and the long driving band section. If you size that bullet to an inked bullet test showing a sliding fit of the bands on chambering, that bullet will get a nice stable start before a nose riding bullet will. 4198 looks great for your application.

 

Gary

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Maven posted this 29 January 2017

What Gary said!  Use the Lyman ~85gr. Loverin exclusively in my .243Win. and have never had a problem with seating it in so short a case (neck .nor have I had a problem with accuracy).

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Scearcy posted this 16 February 2017

It may be useful to sort of summarize the things I have learned so far. I just reread this thread and it is getting very unwieldy. So here are some of the high points: The Lyman 245495  seems like a good choice for lite loads. When I cast it a little softer and moved it at 1600 fps, it shot pretty well. The RCBS 245-95 bullet really came into its own when made of linotype. It shoots well in the 1900 to 2000 fps window. The Eagan bullet is too small. I may try it with mouse fart loads. I believe that 4198 and Rx7 are solid powder choices. 4759 (discontinued anyhow) worked well with the lite loads. 

It doesn't seem to hurt to seat the bullets below the base of the neck.

Joe Bs hypothesis that a rifle won't shoot cast if it won't shoot jacketed at a similar velocity - appears very true.  

Do to poor 6MM gas checks, you cannot “get by” with bullets with rounded bases. Nor can you get by if you shave lead seating these little bullets.

I really haven't discovered anything new here. Maven, Onodaga, and BHyatt had been there first with the best loads I have found so far.

My Tikka is capable of being a good 200 yard beer can rifle for both youngsters and old guys.

Jim

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Wallyl posted this 31 March 2017

I mentioned that I make my own aluminum gas check.  A few years back Hornady stopped making 6mm GCs so I bought a Freechex II GC maker...I paid $35.00,  It works superbly well but does take a bit of time. 

Very interesting to pop cans and other targets at 200~225 yards with the .243 w/cast bullets. I really liked Unique powder with it but it turns out that Red Dot is even better.  I had to switch as I had trouble finding any Unique powder. After shooting the barrel remains very clean.  As I had trouble getting std LR primers, I even used Std Lg Pistol primers, with no problem whatsoever.  However I do use Std LR primers when I can get them.  I shot on a farm with a 1/4 mile range in Central Wisconsin. I have also experimented w/ .22 Cal CF cast loads.  None are in the same league as with the .243. 

 

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Ross Smith posted this 26 January 2023

It's a framitz that squishes bullets.

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2frogs posted this 26 January 2023

Mines a cheap savage axis. Shoots jackets good out to 200 yds..be interested to see how it does with the cast bullets...

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 21 January 2017

jim ... those rcbs bullets look like they should work ... what are the dimensions on the bands and the nose ?? ....

ken

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tturner53 posted this 21 January 2017

Keep the updates coming. I'm rooting for ya. I have similar stuff and have messed around with the .243.

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JeffinNZ posted this 21 January 2017

Holy moly.  Those are too pretty to shoot!

Interestingly Al at NOE has been doing runs of Eagan copies.  He did a 6mm but is not showing any in stock.

 

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=25_107&products_id=185&osCsid=mjlkb4ju5lj37hdohfi86tf6i2

Cheers from New Zealand

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Maven posted this 22 January 2017

For what it's worth, I use the Lyman #245496 @ .244” in my Ruger #1 and am very pleased with its accuracy.  Generally I'll use 14 - 15 gr. of IMR 4198 (or equivalent), but lately it has been 9 - 10 gr. of Unique.  No reason your rifles (or mine) can't be competitive.

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Bud Hyett posted this 22 January 2017

I have prejudices based on years of shooting the 6mm bore for fun and sometimes profit. The 6mm bore intrigued me when I first started varmint shooting and that carried over into cast bullets. I even tried cast in a 6X47 with 1 in 14: twist, but not successfully. Now that I'm retired, I plan on an organized testing with several guns to see what can be done. 

Thoughts: Monotype and linotype are the alloys, .244 and .245 are the sizing dies, high-speed lube, and the heavier bullets resist wind markedly better. You can push the bullets to 2300 feet per second with proper fit to the leade. Most bullets drop from the mold between .244 and .245 needing little sizing to seat the gas check. 

Molds: 

  • RCBS 243-95-SP (Best mold for fit and accuracy)
  • RCBS 24-100-FN (Too long, needs special throating to extend leade)
  • SAECO 243 TCGC 85 grain (Great accuracy, shot well at 2300 feet per second)
  • SAECO 243 TCGC 75 grain (Too light, got blown all over at 200 yards)
  • EAGAN 6mm 68 grain TCGC (Bought for 6X47, need to reevaluate now that I have more experience) 

Rifles: 

  • Savage Striker: 6mm BR
  • Savage 99: .243 Winchester
  • Remington XP-100: 6X45
  • Remington 788: 6X47
  • Ruger #1: 6mm Remington 

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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Scearcy posted this 23 January 2017

BHyett

You are way ahead of me. Thats a good thing.  I have a  rifle just sitting around which could be rebarreled.  I have been thinking of some variation on the 6/22-250.  Case volume looks good for a 90-100 gr bullet.  It is going to need to wait a bit until I sort out these two 243s, though.  Can a person get to 1"- 10 shot groups with a standard 243 - in your opinion?

Jim

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Bud Hyett posted this 23 January 2017

I have been thinking of some variation on the 6/22-250. -  Three decades ago, I built a 6mm-.250 on a trued 788 action for the CBA Silhouette Class and then the CBA closed the class. Using R-P .250 Savage brass with necks turned to clean up to uniform thickness, the rifle shot cast bullets well. I have an affectation for any cartridge built from the .250 Savage case. However, today I use the 6mm BR since the case volume is similar and the brass does not need formed. I still have the barrel and might reinstall it to experiment.

Case volume looks good for a 90-100 gr bullet. -  It is, you get consistent velocity. I mainly used RCBS 243-95-SP and SAECO 85 grain TCGC bullets, Reloder #7 powder, monotype and Linotype, sized .244, high-speed LBT Blue lube, with good results. The rifle was light and hard to steer from sear release to bullet exit. It is analogous to shooting 200 yards with the .22 LR for ASSRA matches, you can influence the path of the bullet while it is still in the barrel.. That is why I worked velocity up to the 2200/2300 feet per second range to help steer the rifle better.

It is going to need to wait a bit until I sort out these two 243s, though. - I have a .243 Winchester Model 70 Varmint converted to a High-Power Target configuration. My hope was to shoot cast at 200 and 300 yards with jacketed at 600 yards. However, I changed jobs and never again had time to shoot High-Power matches. The rifle showed promise at 200 yards, but the cast did not hold up at an actual 300 yards. Velocity variations caused vertical stringing. I went back to H-4831 and the Sierra 100 grain soft point boattail bullet for all ranges. 

Can a person get to 1"- 10 shot groups with a standard 243 - in your opinion? - I think your goal is possible. My first experience was the Ruger #1 in 6 mm Remington that shot well. Several 10-shot groups under an inch with the RCBS bullet. 

Discussing 6 mm cast bullets with Mike Mohler at Fairfax, we had several observations. Mike felt he had to work the bore smooth and be very consistent with powder charge. I agree with his observation. We discussed gas checks and their quality, a major stumbling block in 6 mm cast bullets. You can see the height of the shank varying from one side to the other on certain lots of gas checks. Sorting these gas checks, they do not shoot as well. Gas check quality is seldom checked.

Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest

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