357 H&H Cast Bullet Accuracy

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  • Last Post 18 February 2017
Campchair posted this 26 April 2009

I have a SAKO in 375 H&H I have been trying, on and off for years, to get to shoot well with cast bullets. It slugs out at a perfect .375, and the bullet I am trying is the Lyman 375248 (w/Gas Check) I was following the load in my old Lyman Cast Bullet Manual (1970??) of Unique Pistol powder, at 16 Grains. Results OK for close in on whitetails (about 4” @ 50 Yd.) but I believe it could be much better. I am sizing with a Lyman 450 sizer, with ALOX lube. to .375. Any suggestions?

I also have (literally) about a ton of wheel weights. Are these OK for general use? I do have access to a metallurgy lab with a Brinell Tester and can determine the hardness very accurately. What do I need to aim for?

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KenK posted this 26 April 2009

I don't have a .375 H&H but if it were mine I would try sizing to .377-.378 and using a slower powder.  The current Lyman book doesn't have loads for that bullet but they list 35 grains of IMR 4198 as the “accuracy” load with the 264 grain cast bullet.

 

Does the rifle shoot well with jacketed bullets?

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GBertolet posted this 26 April 2009

I have a Rem 700 in .375. Mine shoots 1 1/2 inches or better at 100 yards with cast bullets. I have a few questions. Do you use a M expander die on your cases, did you shoot from a clean barrel with all copper residue removed and are you using  iron sights or scope? The expander die will prevent shaving lead and damaging the sides of the bullet when seating. Copper fouling can affect accuracy to some extent. And the scope or irons question is refering to the range conditions or human factor. Aging eyes or light conditions can be a big factor in grouping.

You didn't mention what velocity you were hoping to achive. Wheelweights as cast should be good to 1600 fps, possibly a little more. You can heat treat them at 460 degrees in an oven for about an hour and quench them in water or drop them right from the mold into a bucket of water and they will be quite hard and will withstand much higher velocities. I use wheelwheights with a little tin added.

KenK was right in suggesting sizing your bullets much bigger. .378 is what I size mine to. You didn't mention what size your bullets drop from the mold at. Get a sizer die that matches the as cast diameter. Larger size bullets act like a pilot giving more concentric alignment of the bullet with the bore.

There are many good powders out there for this cartridge. I like 4759 because it is economical due to low charge weights needed, plus I use it in other rifles, so I buy it in 8 lb kegs. I load mine with 26 grs to about 1650 fps. With a 270 gr cast bullet it is pleasant to shoot but has enough recoil to let you know something happened when you pull the trigger. This is more than powerful enough for deer. If I bored you I am sorry, as I don't know your experience or level of expertise in this area. You will likely get other insightful responses from other forum members to help you out also. Good luck!

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giorgio de galleani posted this 26 April 2009

I bought a used CZ 375 H&H in the spring of'76,

I mean 1976,It had a california style stock,wit a montecarlo sloping forward,Keith style..not the idiot german humpback stock, they make to day,that hits you in the face.

I had bought a cz 458 a few years ago with the horrible stock,and though he shot good groups.I traded it down the river Po immediately,for the sake of my only face.

I have a ruger  M77bolt action that shoots very well 458 Lott cast bullets  with a gentle and beautiful stock.

Back to the old reliable 375H&H. I kept for some time a N°1 ruger tropical,and sold that too,but I am  still crying and regretting.such a mistake.

The post '64 Win 70 has a well deserved fame of extraction failures,Traded that one too,an bought a winchester M1 Garand.( for cast bullet shooting,of course)

Now back to the Old reliable CZ.

Slugging the barrel in modern rifles is meaningless,One of the old wifes tales of CB shooting .the bullet must fit THE THROAT.not the bore.

If throat measuring is as difficult to you as it is to me,load your bullets unsized,or load the fattest bullets that you can chamber in your gun without effort.

My favourite production bullets come from an old RCBS bullet,bought in the late seventies,that cast in WW  mike .378 , or a flea's hair more,I pass them in a .379 G&H die,lube  all the grooves and  seat the gas checks and shoot them at 1400 fps using the slow shotgun powders I can find in Italy.- Around.1.5 MOA.

I use a Neil Jones nech sizing die, just a caress on the neck is enough sizing , I use a 7/8 die in a  the Dillon 650 press.

Next stage is  lee powder through expanding die with the lee powder measure on top.

The old RCBS bullet seater die was honed up to accept 379 bullets it was made for .375 jackets.and sized down my cast slugs.

A couple of years ago I shot a roe deer at about 80-100 meters from a high tree stand with this rifle  and bullet ,loaded around 1600 fps using Vihtavuori 110 powder,he died on its tracks,and we ate up to the bullet's hole.

Absolutely ,no fillers ,and use winchester Large rifle primers or other manifacturer's magnum rifles.

I have recently got an LBT 300 gr moulds 4 cavity,,shot them only once,they are promising.

 4 inches  at 50 Yards  is what you should expect with .375 bullets.If you have little leading,thank the generous charge of fast burning Unique that bumps up your undersize bullets.

Even .377 saeco bullets gave me 1.5 moa at 100 METRS,not Yards. Get 379 to 380 bullets and try them unsized,I think that being your whitetail deer much bigger than European roes ,you shoud try for 1700-1800 fps.

My rifle prefers gas checked bullets.

When I want harder bullets I like to quench frosted bullets directly from the mould,into the cold water.

Putting them into the oven is too much work to me,I put the roast beef & pizza into the oven.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 26 April 2009

The shameless old braggart is posting more pics.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 26 April 2009

Small yearling roe.

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Ed Harris posted this 28 April 2009

Inexpensive plinking loads in the .375 which work well with soft alloy and require no gascheck use 13 grains of any fast burning pistol or shotgun powder you have lying around, such as Bullseye, Red Dot, Clays or 700-X, or 15-16 grains of somewhat slower burning pistol or shotgun powders in the range of Unique, Universal, 7625, PB, Green Dot, or Herco.

Any 250-280-grain cast bullet works well, such as #375248, #375449 or the Meister 255 grain plainbase. Velocity approximates the .38-55 Winchester. These loads make fine work of garden varmints up to the size of deer. No fillers are necessary or recommended. In most rifles you can shoot soft bullets 10-12 BHN, as cast, unsized, simply tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox and these loads will shoot around an inch at 50 yards if you do your part. 

The last few years my friend Greg Kalnitzky was alive before cancer finally took him, he hunted as much as he could. His belief was that any day spent outdoors hunting, fishing or camping under the stars didn't count against your time on earth. His favorite hunting rifle was a .375 H&H Winchester Model 70.  It had once belonged to the great hunter, the late Arvvid Bensen, who collected many of the specimens on display at the Smithsonian Institution's Museum of Natural History. Greg bequeathed the rifle to his best friend and hunting buddy Wes Bryant, who lives in Texas. 

When he lived in the RSA Greg shot hundreds of head of game with cast loads over his lifetime from guinea fowl to waterbuck and kudu.  Greg's experiences formed the basis for George Martin's article in American Rifleman, entitled “Cast Bullets In Africa."

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Campchair posted this 29 April 2009

Thanks for the reply, Georgeo - Your posts are a real surprise! According to all our media Gods over here, Europe is supposed to be one big “Guns Not Tolerated” Zone! I thought having a functioning firearm meant the firing squad and reloading was a felony over there!! Oh well - live and learn. I'm going to mike the cast bullets I have, and see how some of them do shot “as-cast” without sizing. Can you recommend any US powders that might work better? As I said, I'm getting back into cast shooting after 35 years of traveling for work with no time left over. Lots to learn and time to make up for.

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Campchair posted this 03 May 2009

I just got some time off and checked out about 10 of my Lyman #375248 bullets as-cast. I am getting .381 to .386 under the calipers as I rotate them. I am measuring with the bullet in the caliper jaws held lengthwise. Seems like there is some oval contour  there. The electronic calipers are pretty well on. I'm an old burnt-out Tool & Die man, and I checked it against my 1” mike standard, then with several other measurements against my Brown & Sharpe 0-1” mike. I looked up the Unique load. It is 14 Gr.

Q: Should I size them down to about .381 to get them round? Or, try them as-cast?

Thanks

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Campchair posted this 03 May 2009

I just got some time off and checked out about 10 of my Lyman #375248 bullets as-cast. I am getting .381 to .386 under the calipers as I rotate them. I am measuring with the bullet in the caliper jaws held lengthwise. Seems like there is some oval contour  there. The electronic calipers are pretty well on. I'm an old burnt-out Tool & Die man, and I checked it against my 1” mike standard, then with several other measurements against my Brown & Sharpe 0-1” mike. I looked up the Unique load. It is 14 Gr.

Q: Should I size them down to about .381 to get them round? Or, try them as-cast?

Thanks

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Campchair posted this 03 May 2009

It will cloverleaf at 100 Yds with a good 300Gr. SP or “Solid". It shoots so good I never mounted a front or rear Iron sight on it as I was afraid of messing up the harmonics of the barrel, which has a fairly thin profile. Joy to carry, torture at the range. It's about 7 Lbs. I glass bedded the action, (35Yrs ago. It doesn't show) taking care to beef up the recoil lug and nuder the tang. The barrel has very light pressure the rest of the way out. As I said, it's the family “Pet". Love it.

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Campchair posted this 03 May 2009

ALWAYS enjoy good advice, and that's what I am getting. See my latest post. I finally got around to miking my as-cast bullets.

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redball2 posted this 03 May 2009

I've had a little experence with a 375 h&h. in 1951 I bought one, a model 70 and it was almost the only centerfire rifle I shot for the next 20 years. the cast bullet is lyman 374 449, it was designed for the 375, that rifle took everything from grouse.(head shots) to moose and elk. and a lot of deer with the cast bullet.I did get one goat near moose pass Ak. the load was 43 grains of hivel #2 or 45 grains of 3031. now it is up at the ranch with my nephew. a good load for ground squirrels and such is that bullet and 12 grains of unique. it will make cloverleafs at 100yds the velocity is about 1100 f/s. at thelower velocities wheel weights are Ok. the prefered alloy at the higher speeds was 1 to 10 tin and lead and the bullets always expanded. a few year past there was a fellow from the east who shot  in some of the postals and I believe his powder charge was about 12 grains of 700X. great rifle!

Jim Wilcox

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GWarden posted this 09 April 2010

Following load in a friend's Ruger #1 in 375H&H is Darr 275gr PB 25:1, Emmerts lube, Fed. GM210M primers and 19.0gr 4759 shoots under an inch at 100yds(5shot groups) 1165fps. Three of us spent an afternoon shooting with a chrono and trying different powder charges. We started shooting and were getting consistent groups of a bit under 2” at 100 yds. As we starting getting near the 19.0 gr. load the groups started to shrink in size. At 19.0 grains the first group was an unbelievable 3/8". We continued increasing the powder charge and saw the groups begin to open up. We dropped back to the 19.0 gr. to make sure it was just a fluke group. Well , they were not in the 3/8” but were a tad under .8” Great load in that particular Ruger#1. The only work had been to install a Moyer trigger. Bob

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redball 2 posted this 10 April 2010

The standard 375 bullet is the lymen 375449. it was designed for this cartridge.

I hunted only with a model 70 375 for more than 20 years and mostly used that bullet cast of tin and lead, 1 to 10. favorite charge was 43 grains hivel #2 or 45 grains 3031. it would do 1 1/2 to 2inches always. it took more than 20 deer at ranges up to 360 steps. one mtn goat near moose pass Ak. of coure you must know your trajectory and shoot enough to know where to shoot also  I never did use that load on moose or elk for that,,the hornady 270 grain spire point at about 2500 f/s

 a good light load is that bullet with 12 grains of unique at about 1200 f/s. I believe you use too much unique. this load should cut clover leaves at 100 yds if you can.

the bullet should be seated to touch the rifling.wheel weights should work for these loads

always size to.375 if that your rifle. 

there was a gentleman who shot a 375 in the postals several years ago and I belive his load was about 12 grains of one of the shotgun powder and he reguelar shot groups under an inch.

I should think your rifle is capable of doing the same.

Jim Wilcox

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TonyT posted this 18 April 2010

I have always used either SR-4759 or XMP-5744 in my Win M70 375H&H. With care one can obtaib 2+ inch groups at 100 yards. I am now trying to experiment with Trail Boss in the 375 H&H.

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GWarden posted this 30 April 2010

Tony What have you got for results with the Trail Boos? Bob

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nobade posted this 09 May 2010

I don't have an H&H but do shoot a 375x338 quite a bit. Basically the same thing with slightly smaller case. The Lee 38-55 bullet cast from water quenched wheelweights and sized to fit the throat over a case full of Trailboss will go 1600 fps with very good accuracy. Pretty much turns it into a 38-55.

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CB posted this 16 May 2010

My best cast deer hunting load for my Winchester Classic in .375 H&H was developed by first using Sierra game king bullets and H870 powder: 72 grains H870, CCI 200 primers, and the Sierra bullet seated to almost touch the rifling.  I was running each round over my chrony, and put 10 shots at 100 meters from the bench into 1.276 inches averaging just over 1925 fps.  There were two called fliers out of that group (pushed group to 1.79") that were each a litte over 75 fps slower than average.  Temperature was 98 degrees with almost no wind.

I switched to my 335 grain NEI (old NEI) spitzer w/hornady GC cast of WW plus lino and HT, sized .377 and lubed with M&N, seated to just touch the rifling.  Average velocity was just barely higher than for Sierras.  These were shot one week later than the Sierra loads.  Temperature was 92 degrees with 5 mph wind, again at 100 meters.  One flier out of the group to the left (because I missed a wind gust:X), and  some vertical stringing.  A ten shot group w/o the flier was 1.66 inchs, but only 6/10s inch wide.  I attribute the  vertical stringing to the lack of crimp with such a slow powder.  The powder is not compressed, but fills to base of bullet.

For hunting I cast a softnose bullet using the two step method of a pure lead round ball in a Lyman dipper floating on the melt.  Using a hot mold quickly dipper pour the pure lead, then place under the spout and fill with the above alloy.  Size and GC that day, then HT, then lube.  Accuracy will go down slightly, but still under 2 inchs.  That bullet acts like a Nosler Partition and will usually drop a deer in its tracks.

PS  Don't get in a hurry and mistakenly take hunting the loads without the softnose:  those spitzer hard cast bullets will zip right on through the ribs and lungs like military FMJs and the deer will run into the next county with a very poor blood trail.  (stupidly been there and done that)

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Daryl S posted this 22 May 2010

My best cast bullet load for the .375H&H was 23gr. SR7625 and Lyman's 375449 (I think) Gas Check bullet. It was the heavier one. The RCBS 250gr., 260 in my alloy also shoots well.

The above quoted load was a consistant MOA at 100 yards. RCBS 50/50 lube was all I had in those days. Rifle - ZKK 602 BRNO- scope 12X Bushnel.

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GWarden posted this 12 February 2017

Had excellent results with the Lyman 375449 in a Win. 70 Safari. Bullets sized .377 with HDY GC and NRA lube. Bullet mix was 15# lead, 25# mag shot +2%tn. GM210M primer and 22gr 4759. OAL length 3.509, won't fix the magazine, but bullet engraved into rifling.  Chrono velocity 1356fps.

Bob

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4570sharps posted this 15 February 2017

The title says 357 H & H?

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Westhoff posted this 15 February 2017

Haven't shot my Rem. Mod. 700 375 H&H for a few years, but still have a target tacked to the wall in my “loading room", so I ran up there to see if it was anything I might be willing to share:

There are 5 holes in the target and a note that says “1&1/2 inches @ 100 yds.  Another note says  "63.0 gr. H4350, no filler wad, lino bullet Lyman 375449.  6/8/88, 7.30 pm."

I measured it again just now with a set of calipers I didn't own back in 1988 and it's a few thousandths under an inch and a half.

 The only other thing I might mention is that one Nosler Partition out of that rifle will make moose fall right down, and be unable to get up again.  (Of course, like all moose, when they fall down they're always careful to fall down in at least 6 inches of water.)

Wes

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Westhoff posted this 16 February 2017

Couple more things I forgot to add:

I sized those 375449s .377 and lubed and lubed them with Javelina bullet lube.

Wes

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Lee posted this 18 February 2017

I've shot a lot of .375” bullets not out of 375 H&H but other guns of that caliber. Most everything that needs saying has been said. The only thing I might add is that I've had the best accuracy with SAECO # 373, I think that the number, sized to .377". One other thing I didn't see Reloader #7 mentioned, a good power for cast bullets. 

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