My Ruger .44 magnum is driving me crazy. I've been shooting it in the Hunter Pistol postal matches, this is my second season. Last year I won a match mostly by default. I've been unable to get consistent accuracy, with many different loads tried. My bullets are the Lyman 429244 and the RCBS 250-SWC. The first is a GC Keith type, the RCBS is a plain base Keith type. Powders tried range from Red Dot and Bullseye, per info gleaned from this forum, to the usual slower stuff like 2400 and 4227. Powder charges have all been kept on the low end, using established loading data. I tried sized, .430", as cast, .433 or so, LLA and Lyman lube, straight wheelweights, harder alloys, and even some factory made bullets. Yesterday I took three loads to the range, planning to pick the best one and shoot for score with that. All went according to plan, sighters on target, first shot with RCBS and 7 gr. Bullseye a 10! This may be it! I'm thinking now I'll break that barrier and start shooting some good scores. Next shot a zero. And so it went, ending up with what's probably a new record low score. The bullet holes in the target aren't exactly round, I'm suspecting tipping, and the grooves in my bore have lead stripes along the edges and general leading closer to the breach. If I was shooting for group it would be around 8"! I'm shooting from a very solid bench with sandbags, a well mounted(3 rings) Bushnell 2x6 3200 Elite. I'm ready to listen if anybody has any suggestions, I'd like to be setting a different kind of record.:dude:
Super Blackhawk blues
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- Last Post 16 November 2012
A couple of things.. One problem may be the lube.. We found this out when we were getting shots 3” out of the group and a lube change corrected that. Next, check the size of the front of the cylinder (throats) Ruger had problems with that in the past, but it is correctable by having the throats reamed. I shoot with a fellow that shoots consistently in this class at our regular club matches. We use the TQ-4 at 50 yards and the MR-31 at 100 yards and he shoots in the 390's all of the time. Also he discovered that when you rest the pistol, use a regular bag on the front and them rest your wrist on the rear bag not allowing the butt of the pistol to touch anything. At our club it is single load, single fire. He marks a cylinder and shoots out of that same cylinder each shot. Try some of these and see if it helps.
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Thanks for the help. I also got some of the same advice in a pm from a fellow shooter. The fact that your friend shoots a Ruger in the 390's is both amazing and encouraging. I can see now that luck isn't going to get me any high scores. I was thinking that if I tried enough combinations something would work, but no cigar. Will mike cylinder throats and slug bore, have been single loading. The no butt on the bags is interesting, I'll try that too. By the way, I'm sending that sorry target in, no DNF for me. An NFL team doesn't walk off the field when they're getting creamed. Maybe my July scores will be up out of the toilet! With a CMP Garand match and the new Light Production Rifle coming up I may have to quit working and focus on the important stuff.
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Measured cylinder throats, .440” and one at .438". I'm measuring right at the face of the cylinder, with as little of the micrometer in the chamber as possible. If this is the correct place to measure there's no way the bore will be bigger than that. I need to read up more on slugging revolver barrels.
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Now you have me wondering. I just got a SuperBlackhawk Hunter from my brother. It has a custom bull barrel but the cylinder is original. The throats extend from from the end of the chamber to the end of the cylinder. I would think the correct place to measure would be mid-point of the throat, checking for consistant throat diameter. Just about any bored hole will measure larger at the ends, in my experience. Ruger throats have been known to be tighter than groove diameter. On the other hand, your measurements are way to large. I would expect a correctly bored throat to be minimum groove diameter to plus .004 or so max. I'll measure mine tonight and post them for comparison.
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Tried measuring the throats about 3/16” in from the face, hitting around .435". Reading up on slugging throats, will try that next. Lyman 429244 with gas check sized in Lyman die to .430” fall through chamber with no resistance. I had the impression throats were tapered, for some reason. Learning as I go. From what I've been told and read here I need to try the biggest bullet that will chamber and go for a softer alloy. I see through the 'search' feature this topic has been covered, but I do appreciate all the help.
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If you measure the throat at the face of the cylinder and they all measure the same and it is .435, then you need to get a .435 bullet. LBT will cut a mold at the diameter for you and he does make 4 cavity molds.
My SRH 44mag is a .430 on all holes so that is what I use. Shoots darn good too.
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I measured the throats on mine last night and got from .4302 to .4305. Very consistant from front to rear of the throat. That size reinforces my brothers experience that this one is a tack driver with purchased cast bullets that measure .430. You may have some competion soon in the hunter/pistol matches! Damn, now I have to buy another mold! All my molds are .41 or 45ACP!
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How hard is your bullet metal??. Try ww's and make sure your bullets are not hard.. Mine works great with 429421 and 2400 .Clean good and try softer bullets.
rus
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I'm still finding it hard to believe my throats are .44, but that's what they measure at the face. Double checked three times, checked calibration on micrometer. Maybe I have a lemon, but you know what they say. Thanks again guys. DB, bring it on, let's see how your's shoots.:cba:
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Bullets sized .430 will slide in my super blackhawk with lite thumb pressure.I shoot RCBS 240 SWC GC. I load 15 gr of blue dot with most all my 240 bullets it is very accurate in my Ruger. I have shot many rounds of 240's loaded with 18.5 gr of blue dot in my S&W 629 but the new manuals don't list that much blue dot anymore. I have been working with a Lyman 429640 HP cast with 20 to 1 it weights 270 gr. my load was with blue dot but they didn't shoot as well as I like. Today I tried 21 gr of IMR 4227 I was impressed that load got logged in the note book.
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Good news! I actually applied pretty much every suggestion made here and just more than doubled my Hunter Pistol score for this month compared to last month. I may even be in the $$:P$$, we'll see. I got the Lee 310 gr. .430 mold and casted up a bunch using my new kinder gentler SOFTER alloy. Shot 'em as cast, .435"!! LLA with a little mineral spirits. No leading. Light charge of Unique. If I was shooting for group it would be about 4” at 50 yds. Not fantastic, but a big improvement. When you shoot for score it's just like shooting for group, except the group needs to be in a certain spot. Next I'll try a little heavier charge and hand lubing with something. A couple fliers dropped me down a lot. (4s) I'm also thinking a real pistol rest will help. The trick with not letting the butt touch seemed to help too, the fliers may have been me not keeping even pressure on the bags. Oh, no gas checks were used. Didn't think they'd do me any good at about 850 fps. I'm still working with the RCBS 250 Keith, getting better, now it's vertical stringing, but at least no leading. That Lee bullet was designed by a CBA member, it looks like an old bus, very cool. Edit; The Lee 310 was designed by Dale 53, Lee picked up the design and made it a standard offering. The mold I got (and others here too) is by far made at a higher standard than other Lee molds I've had, round as round gets, and it's only $20.00!! With 6 grains of Unique it kicks less than a 250 gr. with 9 gr. Unique. It cuts a hole in the paper like a wadcutter and is the most accurate bullet yet in my SBH. Now that's versatility. And as Dale said, it'll penetrate a black bear at 125 yds. from any direction! If you have a >44 Special the bullet has two crimpimg grooves to accommadate for length. In my not so humble opinion this may be the do-all be-all bullet for a .44. It'd be interesting to hear if anyone has tried it in a carbine.
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tturner53, Anything special you do with the Lee 310 grain mold? I have one and tried casting with it, and couldn't get it to fill out as I liked until it was too hot and the bullets all came out heavily frosted. I don''t mind a little frost, but these didn't have any shine to them at all. I was casting WW's, do I need to add a little tin to the alloy with this mold? I put mine away over a year ago after purchase, but now you've got me thinking maybe I need to get it out again. I've always blamed my vertical stringing on me and the way I grip, (or don't grip) my SBH. Is it something else I need to be looking for? Any help, suggestions, would be appreciated. My SBH will allow a .430 bullet to be pushed through the throat of the cylinder, but a .431 isn't going to go. And my S&W 44 mountain gun will barely let a .429 pass. Is it best to size my bullets to the throat size of the cylinder? Or in my S&W, do I just load my .430 bullets and squeeze them through the throat?
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GL, first of all I should confess that my success with this bullet was more luck than science. I am by no means a technical guy. Much of what I've learned came from reading this forum and just trying a lot of combinations, my shotgun method. As far as the mold, I learned about it here. The throats on my chambers are actually .440!! I figured out I'd need a big bullet. With my alloy of ww + 50% pure lead I get a .435 as cast, so I decided not to size, since my only sizer die is .429. That led me to the LLA. I didn't use a gas check because of the very light charge of Unique, 6 gr. If you're using straight ww then your alloy will be harder than mine, I think the soft bullet is a big part of the improvements I've seen. I read here how important it is to clean the mold before the first use, so I really cleaned it, first mineral spirits, then hot soapy water, then alcohol,(rubbing:(). Then I treated the mold with NEI Mold Prep, and lubed the pins with bullet lube. I cast hot, but am experimenting now with cooler because of zinc worries and I want a pretty shiny bullet too. Your ww should have plenty of tin already, but as I said, I'm not an authority, just talkative. Two other things I changed, really cleaning my barrel good and leaving some Ed's Red in the bore, and not letting the butt touch the rear bag. Before I rested the gun solid on bags, front and back, now I focus on my grip carefully to make sure it's consistent. Oh, after all these years it dawned on me you can't really see lead fouling when the bore is wet. Get it DRY and you'll see it all, I was amazed at how poorly I've been cleaning my guns. I think that bullet will work just as good for you as it has me, I have expectations of more improvements. Alsooo, my humble advice is don't worry about frost, it's way better than wrinkles, and some actual experts here don't seem to think it's harmful. You still have time to sign up for the August Hunter Pistol match, Give 'er hell and have some fun. My score before this match was actually a CBA record low other than DNFs, you can't do any worse than that! HTH:fire
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"Give 'er hell and have some fun"--my kind of shooting. (And I'll try not to beat your record low). I thinks it's time to dust off my mold and try again. I wonder how it'll shoot in my Super Redhawk? oooooo! I can see hours and hours of fun coming!
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GL, any news? Shot the last match for Hunter Pistol, 6A, yesterday. Upped the charge to 7 gr. Unique. Lee lists the max at 7.2 gr. The recoil wasn't bad at all, I believe this would make a good huntin' load with the Lee 310 gr., although I did get a little leading and accuracy went downhill a little from the 6 gr. charge. When I get more time I'll try these sized with gc and a different lube. I'm not going to win any money with this load in this gun but at least it's usable now, it will certainly hold minute of bear which is the reason I put the scope on in the first place. I shot for score, but my groups would be about 5” at 50 yds. with this one. I think a less shaky shooter could bring that down to 3” with this combo. For now I'll be focusing on upcoming postals matches for lever actions, deer rifles, and light production rifles. Going to get going on the Lee Loader project with TL bullets as cast in my 9 & .45. The name of that game is “How cheap and simple can it be?” Thanks to all of you who have offered help with my SBH blues. I'm happy now.:D:dude: PS While I'm at it thanks to all you guys behind the scenes who make these matches happen. Tim Turner
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Still more good news! The mailman brought me a surprise, I won the July postal match I shot with the SBH, in my category I mean. I will admit only two of us entered that part of the match and I squeezed by second place by two points. Just the same, I want to be known as 'Crack Shot' from now on. I'm going to the den to make room on my braggin' wall for the nice certificate I got and figure out what to do with my prize money. Don't worry, I won't forget all the “little people” who helped me make it to the top.:}
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I want to be known as 'Crack Shot' from now on. I'm going to the den to make room on my braggin' wall for the nice certificate I got and figure out what to do with my prize money. Don't worry, I won't forget all the “little people” who helped me make it to the top.:}
You are the Man! Crack Pot it is, from now on. Oops, was that my outer voice? I hate it when that happens!
Honestly, good job. If I could get my act together (unlikely this year), I'll try and give you a run for your money. Don't spend all those winnings in the same place.:fire
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tturner, I've been working 75 to 80 hours a week and haven't had time to spend casting, but I have collected 7 buckets of wheel weights. The long hours at work should be over in another week or week and a half, and I'm going to try the Lee mold again. I'll clean it like you did, and try again with different alloys. I've always sorted the stick on wheel weights out of the clip-on, but now I am going to try mixing in some stick-on with the others to see if that helps. I've always thought that harder is better, but now I'm thinking I'm wrong. Just printed out a membership application for the CBA, my wife will mail it tomorrow. I'll let you know about the mold and bullets, Crack Shot.
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That's a lot of hours! I hope you get some CTO. Congratulations on joining the CBA. I think you'll like the magazine you get,"The Fouling Shot". I reread mine over and over. Let me know how that Lee mold project is going. If I can help let me know.
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