358 Winchester?

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Lefty posted this 31 January 2010

For many years our deer populations have been very high. I didn't mind, and in fact intentionally, handicapped myself in my choice of firearm. Now our DNR has managed the herd and also managed the Timberwolf population. All of a sudden getting a deer has become a challenge once again. This is a great excuse for a new rifle. While much of the shooting is close, two of our better stands have opportunities out to 200 yds.

I have a 308 length action on hand which limits my options somewhat. I am thinking a 358 Winchester with a 20 inch barrel - stout but easily handled in a tree stand. There are 14” twist barrels in #4 contour readily available. It is my intention to use loads in the 1800 - 2000 fps range. I have not selected a mold yet.

I would like to hear your thoughts and experiences before I spend the money.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 31 January 2010

Here you can admire my new bullets from an LBT 4 cavity mould.

250 grains

I have just tried them at 25 meters with this short range brush gun of mine .

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jhalcott posted this 31 January 2010

I have a 35 whelen rifle and a 358JDJ Contender(14") and use the 358315 and 358318 in them . I BELIEVE the .358 Win to be a some what better round for CAST bullet shooting. I am thinking of rebarreling one of my short action guns, but worry a bit about getting FACTORY brass. I know I can reform .243 thru 308 cases, but I have those guns also. My worry is that I'd grab a box of ammo that had been reformed and NOT notice till I got in the field:uhuhuh:

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jhalcott posted this 31 January 2010

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raytear posted this 31 January 2010

Lefty,

SAECO has a 250 grain flat pointed semi-spitzer. gas-check bullet that shoots very well in my .35 Whelen. I believe it is short enough to fit a 358 Winchester as the mould belongs to one of my friends and he bought it to use in .356 Winchester chambered Marlin lever-actions.

I have some cast up and would be willing to send you a sample if you'd be interested.

Send me a PM with your address and I zip them to you.

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raytear posted this 31 January 2010

jhalcott,

There is another way to get the reformed brass you need, but with a different headstamp from the .243 or .308. That is to use 7mm or 8mm Mauser brass. The 8mm would probably be easier, as the mouth would not need to be opened quite as far as the 7mm.

My experience in opening .30-06 to .35 Whelen is that the cases are useable, but a bit short of the suggested trim-to length. That works OK for jacketed bullets, but not so well for CBs. I suspect you'd have a similar problem with the .243 or .308 cases.

The 57mm cases would need a bit more trimming, but would give you good, useable brass. The ?X 57mm cases are not a plentiful as the 51mm variety, but are usually available, and in bulk quantities from Midway, Cabela's, etc.

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Lefty posted this 31 January 2010

giorgio

You have a very nice set up, indeed. I'll keep that LBT bullet in mind as I go forward.

Jim

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Lefty posted this 31 January 2010

I think brass is available. I'll do some checking tomorrow.

I am somewhat confused about which twist rate would be best, 12 or 14.

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norm posted this 01 February 2010

Lefty, I"ve shot a couple of deer with Browning BLR in 358 Winchester. I used an Old West 250gr. cast bullet at 2000 fps muzzle velocity. The Old West bullet is a very blunt hemi nose and measures 1.0 inches long with gc in place. From my references it appears 1x12 is standard twist for the 358 Win. Working the Greenhill formala I arrived at astability number of 93. Well under the 150 required for stability. Greenhill number for the Old West bullet in 1x16 twist is123. I've also shot a few deer and an antelope with a 35 Remington using the RCBS 35-200-FN bullet at 1800 fps muzzle velocity. They were just as dead as the ones shot with the 358 Win. I really don't think you need a bullet heavier than 200 gr. for deer. Also going from 200gr. up to 250 gr bullets causes a very substantial increase in recoil. Of course the Browningis not the greatest rifle for handling recoil. It's light, half a pound less than na Marlin 336 carbine and with the straight grip stock and a lot of drop at the heel it pounded my cheekbone pretty hard until I had it Magna-Ported. That made a big difference and did not hurt accuracy with lubed and gas checked bullets. I did not try paper patched bullets tillafter Magna-Porting. Nothing but keyholes. I never shot any deer farther than about 125 yards with either the 358 Win or the 35 Rem so I can't say how they would be at 200 yards. I couldn't find any trajectory notes on the 358Win but for the 35 Rem zeroed 3 inches high at 100 yards point of impact at 200 yards is 7 inches low with the RCBS bullet at 1800 fps muzzle velocity. Best Wishes,Norm

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giorgio de galleani posted this 01 February 2010

My 35 whelen has got a 1/16 inch twist,that shot well the Lyman 358009 bullet,a 280 grainer ,with stiff loads of Rex III .

My 358009 bullets were well made,correct bullet shank,correct 359 bands and a long nose that engraved in the lands,but without effort in chambering the round.

Of course I have lost the mould in my loading rooms (at Mount Athos).

The 250 grain LBT bullet has all correct diameters too(it's a custom bullet mold) and will be stabilized in my twist.

My big boars are bigger and tougher than your whitetails,and being driven by hounds,we cannot choose our shot,and,worst case approach, I want to penetrate well a running away animal.

I would have preferred a 1/12 twist to use 300 grains plus bullets,having a longer action rifle and a longer neck case.

But I think that a short action 358Win with 250 bullet would be enough gun for your hunting condition.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 01 February 2010

Sorry I posted a picture of hunters.

Here is Lucky Rubattino 6 foot tall ,a small suzuki jeep and a big adult sow,killed with a 12 ga brenneke ball.

And the adult males,can be much bigger.

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Lefty posted this 01 February 2010

I hope this thread keeps going but I just wanted to stop and thank everyone for sharing your experience with me (and pictures, Giorgio). I took my stock and action to the gunsmith today. After much discussion we decided to go with the 1X12 twist.

I am going to haunt evil bay in pursuit of 35 caliber moulds while I am waiting for my rifle. NEI has a nice 232 gr FP which I am also considering. Has anyone used one of these?

Thanks again - its fun to focus on hunting with cast.

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testhop posted this 02 February 2010

jhalcott wrote: I have a 35 whelen rifle and a 358JDJ Contender(14") and use the 358315 and 358318 in them . I BELIEVE the .358 Win to be a some what better round for CAST bullet shooting. I am thinking of rebarreling one of my short action guns, but worry a bit about getting FACTORY brass. I know I can reform .243 thru 308 cases, but I have those guns also. My worry is that I'd grab a box of ammo that had been reformed and NOT notice till I got in the field:uhuhuh: graf and sons have 358 brass;}

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Lefty posted this 02 February 2010

I got new brass and had a choice of three brands of dies right over the counter at the local gun shop today.

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Lefty posted this 17 February 2010

the barrel in in, the reamer is coming and I have found one mould - Lyman 358315. I should have a picture to post in a couple of weeks.

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beerd posted this 18 February 2010

Lefty, if you are still looking for a mould, these guys make real good ones and have Lyman 358318 clones on hand.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=71160>http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=71160

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beltfed posted this 19 February 2010

Have been hunting and shooting deer with a 358 Win for 22 years. Worked up a load for my Savage 110CL /Doug barrel, 14 twist: 308 WW brass necked up WLR primer 43 grains IMR 3031 Lyman 358318 cast of 9+1 WW/Lino size to .358, NO Lube Paper patched with 20# 100% cotton bond, teflon sprayed,sized to .360/MTL lube . Seat out to just clear the Savage Magazine. Velocity across the Oehler 33 is 2350fps Shot a goodly number of WI whitetails with this. Good one shot kills,always complete penetration. The shoulder shot has become my favorite. Drops them on the spot, and even with the bone hit, you can eat almost up to the bullet hole. beltfed/Arnie

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runfiverun posted this 20 February 2010

i just neck up mili brass so i really have no issues with messing up with the 308. even a short glance at 4 a.m. and you will recognize a 358 from a 308. i shoot the saeco 250 grainer in my 358 win ruger hawkeye sized to 358 and pushed along with rl-19 easiest combination i have ever had come together with cast. i just used jacketed data and shot it. the brass is available and is actually easier for me to get than new x57 brass is. i doubt penetration is going to be an issue it's finding out whats going to stop it to 200 yds that'll be the problem.

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Lefty posted this 20 February 2010

I know I will be pushing things at 200 yd. I need 150 for sure as that is the exact distance from my tower stand across a red willow slough to a major crossing. Savage 110CL - is this a factory chambering or a rebarrel job? It must be a thumper on both ends as that is a light rifle.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 20 February 2010

That's a tough goal ,for real men.

I'd shoot at that distance my 250 grainers from LBT,using water quenched whell weights.

You now have the duty of posting your results ,with pictures.

I am a modest 12 to 80 meters cast bullet hunter.

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Tony65x55 posted this 23 February 2010

Sunday afternoon I fired the first group from my new .358 BLR. I boresighted it, fired two sighters and then a four shot group. Range conditions were sub zero, twenty mph winds and my finger was freezing to the trigger. Distance was 100 yards. Load was 42 gr IMR-3031 under a 245 gr Saeco ACWW. How did it do?

358 Winchester?

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