Can't get fill out on new mold

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  • Last Post 26 April 2017
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BigMan54 posted this 22 April 2017

Finally got my new LYMAN #311252 for .32acp. Never cast from a mold with a cavity this small. Just can't seem to get a decent fill out. I've cast 7mm & .30cal weighing down to 130grs.  Never had a problem with base or nose  fill out on these. I also cast #311316 & #356242-90gr. when I was a kid. Didn't have a problem with that.

I prepped the mold as I always have with a new mold. Disassembled it, boiled the heck out of it in a pot of water w/Dawn dish soap for about 10 min. rinsed it really well in boiling water. Scrubbed it down with acetone as soon as it was cool enough to handle. Preheated by using a hot plate with a cast iron diffuser plate. I stood the mold front face down so the sprue plate was also in contact with the hot plate. Even smoked the cavities with a match.

Started with Linotype at 700 degrees. Did about a dozen fills and then started checking the bullets after they hit the towel. no base fill out, & those tiny lines in the nose. But not wrinkled. Just no decent fill. Cast 100+ and ended up with about 15 sorta good ones.  

What am I doing wrong ?

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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David Reiss posted this 22 April 2017

It would be nice if you could provide photos to help diagnose, but sounds like maybe two things. First clean again to remove soot from smoking. Then crank heat up a little more. Also adjust flow of alloy, when bases are not filling out, it as due to how the alloy is being poured. Try things like moving sprue hole of center some and make sure you have plenty of excess sprue overflow. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 April 2017

most likely your alloy and/or mold isn't really hot enough .  better too hot than slightly cool ...  but i would grab any other known mold and heat the mold then throw a few ... just to compare things .   you may have to run hotter alloy now with the smaller bullet in order to keep the mold hot enough ... as you mention ... you may have been running on the cool side before .  this happens worse with 22 caliber molding .  as a rule, my sprues take 3 or 5 seconds to ” freeze ” ... .

you prepare as i do ... but i usually don't smoke ---- only as a last resort .  i use a toothbrush with clear brake cleaner , let dry and heat the mold .

let us know how it goes ... we are always learning .

ken

 

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BigMan54 posted this 22 April 2017

I don't smoke molds on a general basis. I just thought it might speed up break in. I was also casting with 2 RCBS .45-201-SWC molds at the same time. They cast as perfect and easy as they did 20yrs ago. I put the mold in the gunsafe on top of the Dehumidifier bar when I finished casting. So I'll just clean out the carbon with brake cleaner when I'm ready to try again next week. I use brake cleaner when ever I take a mold out of temporary storage in the gunsafe.  

But if I cast above 750+degrees won't the lead just run off the sprue plate like water without “puddleing" ?

David,

Sorry, but I don't have the capability to add pictures. 

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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358156hp posted this 22 April 2017

750* isn't unreasonable for a bullet this small. I also suggest you adopt a pretty fast casting pace to get some heat built up in the mould. Cast, drop, cast, drop, about as quickly as the sprue freezes. This will build up the mould temp and allow the alloy to flow into the nooks and crannies of the mould for proper fillout. It's quite possible that the mould is cooling down about as fast as the alloy transfers heat to it. After awhile the bullets should start filling out better. Short little bullets in full-sized blocks can require your undivided attention to get the quality you need. So two words, faster, and hotter. You'll know when to back off the pace a bit.

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R. Dupraz posted this 22 April 2017

Too cool, Heat that little sucker and your pot up until it starts to behave.

I also  boil in soapy water and use brake cleaner. Have yet to not get a new mold working if it's clean and hot enough. Don't discount another good scrub with brake cleaner. All molds have their own individual personality and take some time to fully get broken in. some longer than others.

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BigMan54 posted this 22 April 2017

Thanks Guys, lots of good answers.

I'll fire up the pot to 775+degrees  EARLY on mon morn.  Scrub the heck ( & carbon) out of this mold. Put it on the hot plate  at 2 points higher than norm. When the pot comes up to temp, I'll start casting with ONLY THIS MOLD as fast as the sprue hardens.

I guess the rules are a bit different when casting little bitty bullets.

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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RicinYakima posted this 23 April 2017

You are right, BigMan54, casting little bitty bullets is different. The bullet is so small in comparison to the block, the heat get dissipated very quickly. If you are using a bottom pour pot, try dumping some of the cool lead in the spout into a ingot mould before putting the mould under the spout. Also consider faster casting cycles. HTH, Ric

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4570sharps posted this 23 April 2017

I had the same problem when I started casting 22 hornet bullets from a new lyman mould! Higher heat and speed solved the problem. Good luck !

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OU812 posted this 23 April 2017

Poor venting can cause poor fill out ...even @1000 degrees. Loosening sprue plate will help with the bases.

Some moulds can be more difficult to cast with. Have you tried pressure casting? Sometimes this works if mould is not vented well. You can control pressure by adjusting flow rate (bottom pour). Too much pressure will cause whiskers.

 

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BigMan54 posted this 23 April 2017

Pressure casting ? haven't done that in years. I'll try that too. And maybe dipper casting too.

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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OU812 posted this 23 April 2017

I have seen some Lyman moulds with vent channels cut too shallow. You can cut them slightly deeper with scribe and ruler.

Pressure casting. Hold mould against spout just long enough to fill cavity then drop mould against rest to build sprue puddle. You must have a slight sprue puddle or you will create cavity at base

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OU812 posted this 23 April 2017

I like dipper casting or using a ladle with large single cavity moulds. It can be a real pain with smaller multiple cavity moulds. It can be done or perfected, but its lots more trouble than using a bottom pour pot.

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R. Dupraz posted this 23 April 2017

I'm a dipper and have cast a lot of 60 and 55 grn. 22 cal. with multiple cavity NOE aluminum molds. Both PB and GC. Which heat up and cool faster than steel. I have found it no more difficult casting these little buggers than it is pouring 550 grainers for my 45x2.4 sharps once one gets acquainted with what the mold wants and it is broken in. Run the mold and melt temp. hotter and increase the cadence to keep the temp. up. No problem with getting sharp base fill out.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 24 April 2017

ha ... my first mold was a single cavity 225438 ( 45 gr. ) HOLLOW POINT  .. ...  kinda like boot camp for casters ....  had to either go like heck or pour hot lead all over the block to keep it hot enough ... oh, you have to keep the hollow point pin hot also ...  funny, every mold since has been easier ...

was a vaporizer of small varmints tho ...

ken

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BigMan54 posted this 25 April 2017

SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I GOT LOTS OF LITTLE BULLETS.

Well I started out as suggested; cranked RCBS bottom pour to 800 degrees, turned the hot plate to max. Stood up the mold on the hot plate, cleaned & ready to go. Put the thermometer into the pot and watched it rise. Couldn't wait. Started casting at 775 degrees.  PERFECT BASES 1st fill. It does take a bit of finesse to get the puddle to stay on the sprue plate.  I cast for about 10 min  then noticed frosting starting to get heavy. So I added a 2cav #452488 (best light target bullet there is). Just to cool down a bit on the little bullets mold.

Cast 3 times with the #311252, then once with the ##452488. Had a great rhythm going. Then the D****D Edison guy showed up.  Didn't even bother to ring the doorbell or announce himself. I almost dropped the mold into the water bucket at my feet. Just walk in my gate & into my patio without so much as a by your leave. If I'd been carrying I might have **** the sob. Or s**t my pants.

Enough with the wordy crap.

I got 237 32 bullets & 76 45 bullets. The 32's are beautiful little jewels. Rejection rate was 1/32. I haven't weighed or checked as cast diameter.  LYMAN says 75grs when cast out of  #2. I used LINOTYPE. 

And I forgot to scrub the mold with brake cleaner.  Didn't realize it until I went into the garage to put the molds into the safe for tomorrow & saw the can of brake  cleaner sitting on the bench. But this time I was lucky, it didn't matter.

Thanks again to all for your help. Good Friends give Good Advice.  

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 April 2017

great news !! ... seems a most common reason for casting problems >> too cool .  probably hard to communicate how hot the alloy and mold have to be .  especially when we still read that frosting is a bad thing .

wonder if we could just advise to see either ..or both ... light to full frosting ... and sprue puddle taking 3 or 4 seconds to freeze ...  ... maybe simplify things for a caster having problems . ...  at least be the first things to try .

hope your bullets shoot well for you .

....and i gotcha on people surprising you when concentrating on demanding tasks ... i never run machinery with my back to the door ...

ken

 

 

 

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RicinYakima posted this 25 April 2017

Ken, I believe there are two other issues: one is that the numbers on the thermostat of the lead pot have little relationship to the degrees of temperature plus they cycle over 100 degrees from power on to power off; plus the $30 thermometers are only accurate to 5% at best. Ric

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BigMan54 posted this 26 April 2017

I don't pay attention to the temp numbers on the pot. I crank it all the way up to melt & then down when the thermometer tells me that I'm getting close to desired temperature.  I have 2 thermometers.  One is a LYMAN that I 've had for years & another, a recent purchase from NOE. They both read within 10 degrees of each other.

This experience has really opened my eyes as to casting temperature. 

I was taught to cast by my Dad back in the '60's. I've never done any casting with another experienced caster. Although I have taught a few people to cast.

I'm going to cast at higher temperatures from now on.  No more 650-725 degrees any more. I'll start at 750+ degrees & go from there. 

By the way,  I did a bit more casting this morning.  I ended up with a total of 681 of the little bitty 32's & 259 of the 45's. 

Thanks again for all the good advice.

Next I'm going to try a 6cavity LEE mold that throws a 93gr  RN.

I'm going to padlock both gates, and put BEWARE OF DOG signs up too. My neighbor's big mutt will supply the noise. New technology eliminates the need for Meter Readers. So NOBODY SHOULD BE COMING INTO MY BACKYARD FOR ANY REASON.   

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun. Did I mention how much I HATE auto-correct on this blasted tablet.

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