Casting and Loading for the M1

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longhunter posted this 14 May 2018

Well I have an M1.  I tried to do a search of our site and nothing comes up for the casting or loading for it!. So I will go to the members.

I need some help getting started Loading cast for the M1.(3006). I need powder(loading data) and Bullet choices.

Thanking you in advance,

Jon

 

 

 

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret. 608 797 0056

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Scearcy posted this 14 May 2018

Jon

I am sure the are several who reload for the M1 but I am quite sure that Ed Harris does. He would be a great place to start.

Jim

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onondaga posted this 14 May 2018

I recommend my favorite and best shooting bullet for 30-06. It is in the heavy bullet range for the caliber, has a round nose that feeds well and it groups the best for me in the caliber, the Lee C312-185-1R casts large enough to be sized for any 30-06. I size them .3115" for an ink checked slide fit on chambering. I recommend you use the lightest charge that will reliably function your rifle and you will get the best results. I use 34 gr H4895 for a velocity ~2160 fps and for Deer hunting i use the same load but hollow point the bullet on loaded ammunition with the Forster large hollow pointing bit in a drill press. Hollow pointing does not change my accuracy or point of impact. The load consistently groups 10 shots under 1" @ 50 yards with zero grief and no fliers.. I tumble lube once lightly before size/check and twice lightly after size/check with White's Deluxe 45:45:10 , I warm bullets and lube before application. I seat to an LOA of 3.105" for my rifle and then Lee FCD crimp to a measured .004" less than sized case mouth sized diameter.

I use Winchester brass, CCI 200 primers, and cast my bullets in certified Lyman #2 alloy from RotoMetals.

 Gary

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joeb33050 posted this 14 May 2018

 

6.6.2  HOW TO RELOAD FOR THE M1 RIFLE

 

Bob Steinberg

 

My cast load for the M1 was developed when I was a poverty-stricken undergraduate student in the 60's.   Bullet was 311284, cast out of wheel weights (which were much harder in 1968 than they are today); Hornady gas checks, the then new-fangled Alox-Beeswax lube; and they were sized to .309 for my rifle.  Powder charge was 42 grains of WW II surplus 4831 that was sold by Hodgden for $1 a pound; less if you bought it in bulk.  Over the charge was 1/4 sheet of TP; old FA or WW II contract ball cases; CCI 200 primer.  The bullets needed to be seated deep (to the "dirt groove) in order to fit in the magazine.  There are a few "rules" violated here:  powder allegedly too slow for M1 gas system, bullet too heavy; bullet seated deeply into powder space.  The charge is so light that the op rod seems to get a long gentle shove instead of a sharp push.  I never had any difficulties with it.  Like wise, the deep-seated bullets did not seem to seriously hurt grouping.  Groups (fired prone) went about 2-1/2-3" at 100 yards, about the same as the M2 ball that was around then.  (this was not a "match" rifle) I may have had one or two failures to feed in the hundreds of rounds that I fired.   I used to break it down and clean after shooting this load; and I would usually find a few flecks of lead on the gas piston that would brush off with an old bronze bore brush: I cleaned the gas cylinder with a 16 ga shotgun brush and patches, and never had a lead problem there. 

 

Today I would start with 40 grains of new-production 4831; if you are using post-1970 wheel weights, you will probably need to add some type metal to it.  One thing you must never due with the M1: never, ever load the bullet to engrave in the throat.  You will be asking for a slam-fire and the results won't be pretty.

BTW, the same load tweaked for the 03A3, and shot at 200 and 300 yards, got me my first Master classification in 1973.

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R. Dupraz posted this 14 May 2018

For loading data, check on the home site for:

Military Match results

3/26/17

Hunters Point shooters Club

Humbolt, SD 

Better known as the "Frozen Chosin"

 

ED Harris, M1 Garand loading

 

R. 

 

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Ed Harris posted this 14 May 2018

#311299 cast 13-15 BHN, sized .310-.311" for most guns, with 50-50 Alox-Beexwax.

Start with 36 grains of either IMR4895, IMR4064, RL15 or Varget with 1.0 grain Dacron filler and either WLR or Federal 210 primer in USGI cases.  If initial trials don't cycle increase to 38 grains and try again.  In rare cases with newly refurbed, stiff-operating guns with new springs may require 40 grains, but once the gun has been lubed well and "run in a bit" you should be able to reduce the charge back to the start load.

A smooth running gun will function well with the Lee C312-155-2R, Accurate 31-160H, or NOE 311-155FN using the above charges

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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longhunter posted this 15 May 2018

Wow 

Thank you all for the help.

I already have some of the molds so I can get right to loading.  I have quit a bit of US GI mil brass.also.  I will come back to this post and let you know how things turned out.

Jon

 

 

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret. 608 797 0056

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Ed Harris posted this 15 May 2018

Here is what you can expect with a load which is working well, in a CMP refurb with new Criterion barrel, not "accurized", just a solid service-grade gun.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 15 May 2018

Gents,

No one said anything about case sizing, but IIRC a regular full-length sizing die is what you want, the Garand has a somwhat larger chamber spec, so you don't need any sort of "small base" dies.

I would assume that neck sizing would be asking for a slam fire just like seating the bullet out - is that correct?

Great thread.  I look forward to trying my CMP Garand with these cast loads.  If it shoots well enough, start participating in local CMP matches, can't think of a better way to "promote" cast bullets to people who probably have not tried them, but might well be open to them.

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BigMan54 posted this 19 May 2018

I've never used a small base sizing die for any military semi-auto.  Needed one for a WINCHESTER 100 in .308 that I had for a while. Used standard FL size dies for the Mini-14 I got in 1976. And the same die set for a COLT AR-15 I bought in 1979. Used Commercial brass in the Mini-14 & G.I. brass in the AR-15. 

Got a DCM Garand in 1988, used same FL sizer that I used for my 1903A4 & M1917. Never had a functioning problem of any kind. Used G.I. Brass in all those rifles too. But I did keep the cases separate; S-A from bolt guns. 

Used std .308 dies for my M1A too.

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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M3 Mitch posted this 21 May 2018

BigMan's experience agrees with what I have read in various gun books.  The small base dies are mostly for "civilian" auto-loading rifles (and maybe some pumps as well, as needed?)  I have read that military chambers are specc'ed out somewhat bigger in girth than "regular" civilian chambers, and that this means a regular FL die gives the same kind of clearance in a military rifle that a small base die gives in a civilian one.

Good point about not seating the bullets "out" to contact rifling.  I guess one checks this with the rifle in question dis-assembled, push the trial round in by hand, verify the necessary OAL that way.  I personally would not much like to do this with the rifle assembled and the bolt ready to come forward and smite my thumb.  Maybe setting up with a dummy round having no powder makes sense as well.  If you make up a dummy round and keep it where you can find it, it can be used to set up the seating die, sort of as a bench gauge.

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durant7 posted this 04 June 2018

There is a lot written about shooting cast in the M1.  I am a cast shooter of 30-30 and shoot a lot of 31141 in lever gun competition.  I found reloading with jacketed bullet for the M1 with 44 grains of Varget a pretty darn pricey exercise as I learn how to shoot this new to me type of firearm. George Carlson's well organized write up was my inspiration to give it a go.  After 50 shots of various amounts of powder, barrel cleaning I am close 4 MOA but at 37.5g of H380, I will get a low shot (outlier) as the gas system either used more or less, I assume more, to cycle.  My point, I could feel a delayed cycle.  I started at 36 and could really feel irregular cycles.  I guess 38g is next.  

I experimented with no crimp so as to not deform the lead upon leaving the case.  This resulted in very low pressure and crimped loads would cycle the bolt, non crimped would not.  Again, I assume no crimp lets the bullet leave the case before full pressure.  Sorry, internal ballistics is not my expertise.  I did a little more work with the 31141, GC, White Label Lube 50/50, refurbed CMP M1 with Criterion barrel etc this weekend.

So here is my question.  In looking at the fired cases I make two observations.  First, there will be a very slight amount of crimp left.  I am used to my non crimped 30-30 which has, of course, zero crimp left.  Would one not expect the case to blown all the way out so so it looks like it was just sized?  Second, I see the ejector strike anywhere from the end of the neck to the shoulder with the same powder load.  What does this mean?  Border line pressure to get the bolt cycled? I figured there are folks that have lived this already and might speed my learning curve.  

My shipment to myself of 311299 will be here tomorrow and maybe that will retire the 31141 project.

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longhunter posted this 04 June 2018

All,

Thank you for all the posts here.  My note book is getting fuller everyday.

Please keep the comments coming as my learning curve with this rifle is steep.

Thamk you again,

Jon

 

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret. 608 797 0056

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Ed Harris posted this 04 June 2018

H380 is not the greatest powder choice for the Garand in .30-'06, even using the Dacron filler tucked loosely into the case to mitigate the excessive amount of free airspace, velocities were erratic.  Had the same experience with H335, BallC2, 748.  760 works OK in a bolt gun, but don't recommend it in the Garand as loads heavy enough to cycle reliably might bend the op rod, which is VERY expensive repair/replacement these days. 

4895, 4064, RL15 and Varget all all pretty much trouble-free, accurate and reliable.  If I were to load for an unknown Garand without undergoing a load development program I would first try #311299 sized .311 with BHN 13-15 alloy and 38 grains of any of the above powders with 1 grain Dacron filler in USGI brass with WLR primers. THAT load will cycle and be accurate the the great majority of Garands.   

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 04 June 2018

Ed, you mentioned in the current Fouling Shot that you don't like Federal brass in the Garand, it's too soft and will have problems with loose primers after only a few reloads (maybe other problems too).  You said Remington, Winchester, and Starline, and of course GI brass, are preferred. Maybe you want to expand on that here.

Also, one needs to be careful to seat primers at least flush.  The temptation when loading with a Dillon or similar would be to not check, but I think it makes sense to check every round as it gets primed (single station) or as it comes out of the Dillon.  Better to find the high primer with your fingers, than to let the Garand find it for you.

Slam-fires, pardon my French, just plain suck.  We don't want them!

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Wineman posted this 06 June 2018

I was at a CMP match in April and sure enough, a high primer slamfire in an M1. They were Federal LR primers and the gentleman swore that he had checked them all. The primer was protruding slightly. I'm not sure where the round went and it was during offhand. No damage resulted (except to his laundry bill). I use a SLED in my M1 and generally use CCI 34 primers myself (jacketed loads) I have also used CCI 200's, BR2's and WLR's and never had any issues. I always run my finger nail along the base after seating and make sure they are below flush.

Dave

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longhunter posted this 5 days ago

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret. 608 797 0056

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longhunter posted this 5 days ago

Well I finally got to the M1. To many Ground hog targets to shoot!  Using Ed Harris Loading info. This is my first target fired.

The 2 shots on the left side were sighters. After the last sight adjustment I fired the last six rounds for group.

This was shot at 100 yards.  The load was Lyman 311299 WW and lino. GI Brass,Fed 210m primers, 1 grain of Dacron filler.

36 Grains of IMR 4895.  I fired several clips and all pretty much stayed in the same size group.  On cleaning no leading was found. The rifle is a CMP rebuild new  Springfield 1955 barrel.  I think it's a keeper.

Thank you Ed and everyone for your help in getting this rifle shooting.

 

Jon

 

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret. 608 797 0056

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 5 days ago

jon ....  very nice target .... for the several million of us that trained or served with the garand ... and including the m14 ...  there is something that talks to us a bit when we see one actually strutting it's stuff ...   they are supposed to be shot, not take up space in a dark corner of a closet somewhere ...

hey, you are way ahead of the rest of us for the coyote shoot ...  you already have a fast accurate load ...

i am just starting to investigate schemes on how to get a plain base over 1300 fps ... or put 1/2 inch shims under a scope base ... ( g ) ...

ken

 

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longhunter posted this 4 days ago

Thanks Ken for your kind words.

There is a Brotherhood of arms.  It is a wonderful feeling of closeness and companionship.  

Smelling the gun oil and bore cleaner and gun smoke!

And for me the burning Jet fuel!

Thanks,

Jon

 

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret. 608 797 0056

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Scearcy posted this 4 days ago

Jon

Nice target! You may have a coyote rifle there. It should be fairly stable in the wind for sure. This load should work well in a bolt gun also although I expect it does have some recoil.

Jim

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longhunter posted this 3 days ago

Thanks Jim,

After my 03 loads of 16 gr of 4227 it does have a far amount of recoil.  I have gotten spoiled in that  department. 

I'm really looking forward to the Coyote shoot.  I will have to think of another rifle to try!!!!!

Jon

Jon Welda CW5 USA Ret. 608 797 0056

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Ed Harris posted this 2 days ago

Nice work!  Load works.,

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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