Lead in the environment

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  • Last Post 24 August 2017
RicinYakima posted this 03 March 2017

Before retiring as the WA State equivalent of the EPA, I was also the president of the local Rifle and Pistol Club. WA was proposing to “remove” all lead from the environment. The leading cause of lead in fish, birds and people is still the lead from gasoline sold in the US from 1927 until about 2004. It is still sold in over 125 countries. Tetraethyl-lead in the exhaust settled along the roads and as it oxidized entered into the wild animals and fish. Sinkers on your fishing line had nothing to do with it. Bullets from pistols and rifles had nothing to do with it. Only shotgun shot, laying under water and oxidizing posed a hazard for bottom feeding ducks. Now after 40 years, it is no longer an issue. Congratulations to Secretary Zinke for using science to make regulations that are effective.

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JeffinNZ posted this 03 March 2017

Lead comes from the environment to begin with.  I am merely returning is to it's home.  Sorta like replanting trees really.

Cheers from New Zealand

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papertrl posted this 03 March 2017

Nice to have that perspective, Ric. Shooters have been demonized for too long.

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Old Coot posted this 03 March 2017

Tetra-ethyl-lead is also responsible for at least one case of “modern” lead poisoning. 

An elderly lady (before 1973) who was worried about osteoporosis got into the habit of taking large amounts of Calcium tablets every day.  The tablets were primarily crushed and powdered egg shells mixed with food grade binder and formed into the tablets.  You don't put egg ranches far from major highways.  Too much breakage occurs in transit.  The chickens were constantly exposed to the motor vehicle exhaust containing tetra-ethyl-lead, and assimilated it into their bodies.  Their ovaries unable to distinguish the Pb++ from Ca++ (ionic lead from ionic calcium) utilized it in making the egg shells.  When the victim constantly consumed large quantities of the supplement she built up a high enough blood level lead that it finally caused her enough neurological problems that she expired.

Tragic as this is it doesn't hold a candle to the woman who thought apple seeds were a great treat, and saved up a couple of cups of them.  Apple seeds contain a small amount of cyanide.  She consumed so many at one time that the resulting massive anemia lead to her demise.  Again illustrating that you can have too much a  good thing.

Brodie

 

B.E.Brickey

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 03 March 2017

Jeff,

Now that would be awesome, lead trees, the leaves could be of pure lead (depending on the species, there could be linotype trees) and fall on the ground for picking up. Just don't be under the tree when it begins to shed it's leaves. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys & Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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Old Coot posted this 05 March 2017

Those leaves would be hard to compost .

B.E.Brickey

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 05 March 2017

Old Coot,

I disagree. I have three big safes full of lead composters. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys & Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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Pepe Ray posted this 15 March 2017

The fear of lead and the promotion of same by the government sponsored agencies is the single most relevant issue responsible for

our diminishing C.B.A. population. Until the propaganda can be exposed to the nation as the great lie that it is we will never see an increase in our casting fraternity population.  Ignorance of the truth about lead will always dominate the consciousness of a tyro.  Until the populace will refute the misinformation you will be frustrated in your efforts to grow.

Just my $0.02

Pepe Ray 

Only in His name.

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Old Coot posted this 17 March 2017

Pepe Ray;

Getting the public to believe the truth about lead is going to be very difficult.  They already have been brain washed (it was an easy job because they seldom use their brains), and once the idea is firmly stuck in concrete (their skulls) getting it out ain't gonna be easy.

For example:  “The high concentration of lead in the soils along our roads is due to the lead wheel weights."  The fact that 70 or 80 years of travel by vehicles burning leaded gasoline along those roads is not an issue.

Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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4570sharps posted this 17 March 2017

Several years ago some liberal politicians were trying to shut down shooting ranges.........calling them toxic waste dumps! Give me a break!

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John Alexander posted this 17 March 2017

Pepe Ray wrote:

"The fear of lead and the promotion of same by the government sponsored agencies is the single most relevant issue responsible for our diminishing C.B.A. population. Until the propaganda can be exposed to the nation as the great lie that it is we will never see an increase in our casting fraternity population.  Ignorance of the truth about lead will always dominate the consciousness of a tyro.  Until the populace will refute the misinformation you will be frustrated in your efforts to grow."

===============

Pepe,

I agree that there is a lot of silly hype about lead and shooting along with some problems (dead ducks from lead shot) now solved.  However, I want to correct the impression that the CBA is shrinking.

 

 At near 1,600 our membership has a couple of hundred more members than it had in 2000 and of course many more than it had in the early years.  Membership goes up and down with time and right now it is going up.

 

I have belonged to the CBA for 40 years and practically from the start people have said the CBA is dying because our members tend to be older than average and old people die. To paraphrase  Mark Twain, the report of our death is exaggerated. 

 

I think the latest Fouling Shot, which most of you haven’t received yet, is one of the best in years.  It is not the product of a dying organization. If we enjoy CBA membership and want it to continue we should be talking it up, participating in the forum, writing that article for the Fouling Shot you have been thinking about, and maybe recruiting a new member once in a while.

As long as we have people willing to pitch in and do the work we will be hard to kill.

 

 John 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Pepe Ray posted this 18 March 2017

I apologize for implying “membership growth shrinkage". I was referring to “rate of growth” as in “number of new members per X time vs previous periods". This probably sounds like I'm dabbling in statistics and keeping records. Nope!. It is great if we can claim an increased rate of growth. 

I was attempting to encourage the membership for any sign of progress against the proper-gander machine.

Pepe Ray

Only in His name.

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Hornet37 posted this 15 August 2017

You forgot to mention the hundreds of miilons of tons of lead from lead based paints, lead acid batteries, lead solder from electronics , lead from plumbing pipe, lead from colorant in plastics , and naturally occurring galena deposits.  Lead from Bullets is only a small  portion of the source of lead in the environment 

 

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BigMan54 posted this 16 August 2017

For many years I shot weekly at the LAPD Harbor Range. It was in San Pedro on land leased from the U.S. NAVY.  They had a Big Little league Field there that Civilian range fees supported.  Lots of underprivileged kids cycled though there. Free gloves & uniforms, no kid was ever turned away because their parents couldn't afford to buy their kid a pair of cleats.

The NAVY decided that the lead exposure was to harmful to civilian shooters. So they closed down the range to the public.

LAPD still shoots & trains there. The  kids still play ball, but now they have pay. To bad for the kids who's parents can't afford equipment. 

 

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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Starmetal posted this 16 August 2017

David I really laughed out hard on that one, that's a good one. 

Guys you all hit the nail on the head with this one.  I always disagreed with wheel weights along the road being a big issue.  i deliberately put a couple wheel weights outside and have been watching them for quite some time.  What I see is they got a white oxidization on them and that's it. I don't see them decomposing into the enviroment. 

Not lead, but another pet peeve of mine is how over rated the hazard of asbestos is.  I talked to an EPA representative many years ago about it and he agreed and added that he thinks fiberglass insulation is worse.  Back in my early years I was in the Navy and was in the Engineering group as a Stationary Engineer (boilerman).   We worked with asbestos and was around it daily.  None of the men I served with got cancer from it and only know of one case personally that a sailer did.  It's dangerous yes, but over rated.  How many of you watch the home remodeling shows on TV?  God the removable crew comes in wearing chem suits and respirators. They bag everything in black plastic bags and dispose of it.  They act as though the stuff is radioactive.  I see the EPA as POWER, that's what it's mainly about, not protecting people. 

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Old Coot posted this 17 August 2017

The lead along the roadside in Calif. was due to the use of leaded gasoline for what?  80+ years.

When I worked at Standard Oil in El Segundo they removed asbestos insulation from old tanks and refining equipment with high pressure water hoses.  The greatest threat to employee safety at that plant was the ordered failure to report accidents, and the cover-up provided by the company doctor.  Brodie

honestly I did not think much of that place or the people who ran it.

B.E.Brickey

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Starmetal posted this 17 August 2017

The lead along the roadside in Calif. was due to the use of leaded gasoline for what?  80+ years.

When I worked at Standard Oil in El Segundo they removed asbestos insulation from old tanks and refining equipment with high pressure water hoses.  The greatest threat to employee safety at that plant was the ordered failure to report accidents, and the cover-up provided by the company doctor.  Brodie

honestly I did not think much of that place or the people who ran it.

 

I once worked at the DX/Sunoco Oil Refinery in Tulsa, Ok.  They were pretty decent on safety, even had I go to their fire fighting training.  I don't recall removing any asbestos, but it might have been before the government got serious about it.

Safest place I worked at was a Stauffer Chemical plant. I remember they'd go millions of man hours with no lost time accidents. I in fact learned a lot of safety there. They too were before the pre-asbestos days. 

About my comment on the DIY shows and the big deal made for asbestor removal, my God many of us walked on vinyl-asbestos tile, our house were sided with asbestos siding.  At least the asbestos siding wasn't a huge fire hazard as that home siding made of fiber board, tar, and sand to resemble bricks.  What a stupid idea that was!!

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 17 August 2017

THere was great concern from the environmentalists that lead would leach into the aquifer from the range up near Blacksburg, VA.  SO, after several years of use they MEASURED the lead in the water run-off and then dug up a number of TONS of lead from the backstop.  Net result:  no lead in the water runoff.

Just look at civil war bullets - just a crust of oxidation after 100+ years of exposure to the elements.

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RicinYakima posted this 18 August 2017

The white powder you see is lead oxide, yes it is very poisonous, but only if you eat or breath it. Otherwise, it just lays there. The issue with lead paint is kids that eat it, I.e. chew on cribs, etc. Or you drink it in the water, let the tap run 3 seconds. Making people afraid makes news and money!!

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BigMan54 posted this 18 August 2017

standard oil in EL SEGUNDO!!!! Every time I got a glass of Water from the tap in my old Batchelor apt on the ESPLANADE in Redondo Beach after they fouled the city's well's in 1977 I would curse them all!!! When I moved into my little place in 1975. Right after I finished my obligation to the thrice-d****d US. Navy. The water from the taps in REDONDO was like drinking from an artesian spring. Two-years later standard oil cracked the EL SEGUNDO aquifer.  Worse than drinking that blood warm water from your canteen after dropping in a WP pill. 

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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Old Coot posted this 24 August 2017

During WWII an inspection door was left off of one of the Tanks on the bluff overlooking  the Pacific.  Not knowing that the door was missing over 200,000 barrels of aviation gasoline was pumped into the tank, and right out the inspection door.  The sandy soil was no barrier to the hydrocarbon, and it (as well as every other oil spill on SOof El Segundo property) trickled down to the aquifer where it floats to this day.  One of my jobs was to monitor the wells on SO property (I think that is was 11 of them) as well as those at the Scattergood facility next door.  We used to figure that if that hydrocarbon was somehow ignited it would take out all of El Segundo as well as Manhattan Beach and a good piece of the Air Port (LAX) and Redondo beach.  No wonder your water tasted of hydrocarbon.  Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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