Making a Bump Die

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OU812 posted this 28 January 2017

I made a bump die, bump die stop and removing stem from  machinable 12L14 steel.  . Die and die stop fits closely inside a hollow LEE case flaring die. The matching NOE nose stem acts as a stop inside die while RCBS press cams over exactly on each bullet. Bullet is compressed about 1/32&rdquofor good results. The hollow tip of removal stem was filled with JB Weld and cured to bullet and then to protect nose during removal. Mc-Master Carr supplied the .220 and .227 reamers...very fast shipping. .2205 diameter is also available.  

The pointed NOE 80 grain bullet is undamaged and more uniform diameter entire length of bore ride section AFTER Sqeezing larger

 

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OU812 posted this 28 January 2017

Here is the die assembled. Die and NOE punch slips in and out bottom of Lee flaring die while the stop stays affixed inside top half of die. Stem used for removing bullet from die is pictured with bullet.

Shell holder is removed from press and a small piece of 1/4 steel plate is used for pressing . Die sets flat on top of small flat plate during bumping. Bullet is extracted by removing plate and inserting longer punch back into die. The small .224 bullet will fall out of RCBS Rocker Chucker ram like a spent primer.

 

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OU812 posted this 28 January 2017

Get the picture?

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John Alexander posted this 28 January 2017

This project deserves its own thread.

Interesting project. I like the innovative way you used the body of the Lee flaring tool and the NOE stem.  If I can ever find my Lee flaring tool I might be tempted to try to duplicate your work. 

With a little more detailed explanation I think this would make a good Fouling Shot article.  Please consider submitting to Glenn.

I will be very interested in the results when you shoot the bumped bullets against the unbumped.

John

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JeffinNZ posted this 28 January 2017

Nice work!  I use the body of a Lee factory crimp die to hold push through sizing dies I have made. 

Cheers from New Zealand

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 28 January 2017

great stuff ....  i really like the sliding insert idea ... and those of us with hobby lathes would like to hear all the details , especially how your compact lathe did for you ... and cutting tools used .

can you push out the 226 bullets by hand ?  or do you use an  '&rdquoassist &rdquohammer ... ?  or tap on a benchtop...?  

thanks for posting ...eye candy for we  snow-bounds with cabin fever !!

ken

 

 

 

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OU812 posted this 28 January 2017

Ken,

It depends on how much you bump the bullet. The more you bump, the harder it is to remove bullet from die...imperial sizing wax helps.

To adjust die I raise the top adjusting bolt so I can bring press and bullet to top of press stroke. Then I turn down adjusting bolt inward until I feel it stop against bullet. 1/2 turn of adjusting bolt inward allows for easier hand removal of bullet, 3/4 turns inward is a little more difficult to remove, so press or tapping must be used to extract bullet.

I cut the die band area @.227 so that the top band and bottom of bullet rest flush with bottom of die. There is a small 1/16&rdquogap between NOE punch and top of die before pressing

OU812 posted this 28 January 2017

Bullet on left is not bumped. Nose measures .2205 and bands measure .2265.

Bullet on right is bumped 3/4 turn inward of adjusting bolt. Bore ride section after bumping now measures .2205 the full length of bore ride section and bands measure .2275.

Alloy is 13-14 bhn.

Sorry about poor picture quality

 

 

Scearcy posted this 28 January 2017

Very nice!

Tom Acheson posted this 30 January 2017

I've been using a bump die since 1998 in .30 caliber and am now using one in 6.5mm. You can adjust the die as to where you want the“taper&rdquoto start on the body of the bullet and how much pressure can be applied to the bullet. Too much pressure and the lube grooves disappear. The three benefits are......you get a very flat bullet base with really sharp corners at the bottom of the gas check....the bullet is very round....and the taper or shape of the bullet body is more uniform than the“as cast&rdquobullet. 

Mine don't look exactly like the one pictured here but that's OK. My die is mounted in a RCBS Rock Chucker which I've dedicated for bump die use only. It does help to rotate the piece that is in the ram where the shell holder usually is positioned, every 50 rounds or so, just to keep wear uniform. And the stem with the“nose punch&rdquoon the end of it is rotated 90 degrees or so every 10-rounds, again just to keep the wear uniform. Just a couple of habits of I've gotten used to doing.

In comparing the OAL of a .308 Winchester round in my Savage Model 12, using an as-cast bullet and a bumped bullet, sees the bumped bullet entering the chamber a little farther, giving you a longer OAL.

FWIW

 

Tom

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OU812 posted this 01 February 2017

The bump die was well worth the effort. Average group sizing  has been reduced by half. This 10 shot group was shot using 15 grains of old long cut IMR 4198.

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OU812 posted this 01 February 2017

Here is an example of bullets that were not bumped using 14 grains of same powder.

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Scearcy posted this 01 February 2017

OU812

Impressive work! Those two targets speak volumes.

Jim

JeffinNZ posted this 01 February 2017

Like night and day.  Great result.

Cheers from New Zealand

Tom Acheson posted this 02 February 2017

Some designs for the nose punch area use a small amount of (soft) lead poured into. Over time this area gets deformed so the lead is melted out and replaced with a new“insert". The bullets being bumped eventually form the inside profile of the“insert".

FWIW

 

Tom

SierraHunter posted this 02 February 2017

Very impressive!

OU812 posted this 14 February 2017

Here is the same 15 gr load of 4198... velocity is around 2000fps.

25 rounds fired without cleaning using 45-45-10 lube.

These bullets were bumped or compressed  about .030". More compression seems to shoot better. One full revolution of top bolt in die equals .055"

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JSH posted this 14 February 2017

This is just the type of project that I wanted to be able to do myself. Thus me purchasing the Sheldon lathe may cut into my shooting time,no pun intended. NOE pretty much made their bushing sizer the way I voiced several years back, though my thoughts were not putting it in through the bottom of the press. I have several thoughts in my head for bump dies and push through dies. Now that I have a lathe the ideas can be put to the test. Something a bit better than a knocker to expel the sized bullet is bouncing around in my head too. This thing called a“job&rdquosure gets in the way of my hobbies and passions. Tom, good to see you. I sure miss your articles in the IHMSA news. Jeff

OU812 posted this 15 February 2017

I let the bullets harden a couple days before sizing and bumping. Gas check on bullet was seated square then sized to .2259. Diameter will increase to  diameter of die +.0004 after bumping. Here are bullets before being bumped. Bullets will age harden to 15 bhn after two weeks.

As cast bullets are a slip fit into .220 diameter die... 

 

Scearcy posted this 16 February 2017

These are about as nice of cast bullets as I have ever seen.  I am thinking you are really going to like the way the .221 bullets shoot.

Jim

OU812 posted this 16 February 2017

Thanks, The mold is NOE's 3 cavity brass version that has  been shortened to make gas check shank shorter. I made the bullet shank shorter so that maybe the long 80 grain bullet would shoot in the 1-12 twist Remington barrel. Bullet seems to shoot regardless of what you read (Greenhill formula was written for canon projectiles  during an earlier war... per Veral Smith)

The Gator gas check snaps on then it is pressed into bottom drive band and squared before sizing. I made a special bullet holder mounted in my RCBS Lubamatic to do this. The holder is made from K&S .250&rdquoOD brass tubing...with a .221 Inner Dimension. Tube was filled with JB Weld and allowed to cure with wax coated bullet inserted up to first drive band. 

Gator gas checks are about .001" thicker than the Hornaday checks and for some reason more difficult to size nose first in the Lee sizer. So first I must "crimp on"  base first In RCBS lubramatic using .227 die. Then final sizing is done nose first in the .226 LEE sizer before inserting bullet into bump die. I think the extra thickness of the 22 cal. Gator checks works better than the thinner Hornadays

I cast these bullets between 700-750 degrees...spout flow rate should be on the low side. Casting fins at nose were removed with thumb nail. Very easy to cast these bullets with practice.

I have been using NOE's matching aluminum nose punch during bumping and it seems to be holding up pretty good, but will compress and settle a little at first.

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