New Powders from IMR.

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  • Last Post 14 August 2017
BigMan54 posted this 04 August 2017

Just read an article in the August 2017 Handloader about new powders being introduced by IMR.  IMR ; Target, Red, Green,Blue & Unequal.

IMR Target was the main subject of the article. Supposedly a great new powder equal to BULLSEYE.  Supposedly better for the environment too. Powders seem to be introduced & discontinued so fast that by the time you find a can of a new powder & try it, you can't buy another because it's been discontinued. 

I guess improvement is a good thing. I'm just too set in my ways to appreciate it.

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 04 August 2017

The biggest issue for me is the sheer number of powders being made today. I like the variety, but local shops just can't stock all of them, or even small portion of what is available. The reasons are space and cost. That leaves us with the other option of ordering it, which is not so attractive due to the hazmat fee. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys & Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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onondaga posted this 05 August 2017

I see a bright side to the unpleasantry of product and market consumer interaction going on. Check the RFPs, requests for proposals to those from Rio Linda. There is new propellant research and it is very competitive for DOJ Research Grant money. This is actually something government does well, develop better propellants for things that shoot.

IMR does world class research and development and they are on OUR side. But, I'd change mind instantly if IMR adds taggants to any of their propellants.

Gary

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Ed Harris posted this 06 August 2017

I prefer to stick to the old standards which are familiar and predictable.

I have no interest in furrowing unfamiliar new ground with an unknown horse I have never used before...

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 06 August 2017

I kinda agree with Ed. There has always been a good selection of powders, but now it is pretty confusing. Now if they just developed a couple powders just geared towards CB loads, that would be nice. 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys & Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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RicinYakima posted this 06 August 2017

You are right, in that I would like a CB powder that had a smooth pressure curve up to 24,000 cup and was ash-less for rifle loads. Maybe 20 grains in a 30/06 case for weight. Then a clean burning pistol powder that would have peak pressure in a 38 special cylinder, clean burning and generate 900 f/s. We can always dream.

p.s. No powders with deterrent coatings that leave slime in the barrels!!!

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gnoahhh posted this 07 August 2017

Millions of dollars for research, and they can't bring back SR-4759...

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RicinYakima posted this 07 August 2017

Millions of dollars for research, and they can't bring back SR-4759...

The SR powders were just too expensive to make, and 5744 out advertised them. IMR powders will be next, same production process that just makes too much expensive waste. My prediction is that in five years there will only be double-base powders for sale in the US.

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BigMan54 posted this 07 August 2017

This has nothing to do with cast bullets, but while I use IMR3031, IMR4895 & IMR4198 in heavy loads for .30-30 , 

.38-55 & .45-70 with cast bullets. 

I also use IMR powders for JACKETED loads too. I load .270WIN & .257Roberts with IMR4350 for myself & a friend. Same loads for 40+years. Accuracy; 3rds into a 1 1/2" group minumum for all 4 guns with both loads. loads that are now too hot according to all the manuals.

When the new ENDURON powders came out, my buddy got a hold of a sample pack of 4oz cans of each of the 3 powders. He passed them on to me to try in our matching rifles.

Changing only the powder charges I made up 10 rds each of light, medium & max loads. Accuracy was equal with the light load of IMR4166 IN THE .257. And that was the only one of 18 loads that matched any of the IMR4350 loads. 

No ENDERON powder load matched VELOCITY across the OHELER? model 35 chonograph screens.

Only one ENDURON POWDER load matched for accuracy.

He shot on a cool day (60degrees) with a 5 mile cross wind.

He started with 3rds to dirty the barrels & didn't clean until all 33rds in each string had been shot, 2 minutes cooling between shots.

The ENDURON powders in each string burned cleaner & cleaned easier in each string. 

I guess cleaner & cheaper beats performance. But then I think they're supposed to be better for the enviroment.

 

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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Old Coot posted this 08 August 2017

BigMan54,

You might consider trying R19 in place of IMR4350.  

Like you I have used 4350 for my entire reloading career, but it is temperature sensitive and meters like a bag out sticks (which it is, or rather a can of sticks).  R19 meters beautifully and is just a hair slower than IMR 4350.  I have had very good luck with it in the 30/06, 7x57mauser, 6.5 Creedmore, and 30-40 Krag.  All with jacketed stuff, I have not tried it yet with cast.  

We might as well look for replacements for our old favorites or buy enough to last the rest of your life time.  Business marches on and it is not always kind to us reloaders.  Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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GP Idaho posted this 08 August 2017

The new Lovex powder (Shooting World) called Cowboy is suppose to be a 5744 clone but just $20 a pound. I can find the other powders they make but am having a hard time finding any Cowboy powder for sale. Gp

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BigMan54 posted this 08 August 2017

I get excellent accuracy & lot to lot consistency with IMR4350. Don't have a problem with metering as I now use a LYMAN Auto-Powder measure. Before that I used a variety of  mechanical powder measures that I adjusted to drop light & then used a trickler to top it off.

I always believed in; " if it an't broke don't fix it ". 

I've tried so many new powders over the years that I found good loads for & then were discontinued that I'm no longer willing to waste time & money on any new powders. 

I'm to beat up to hunt anymore & I have to use a Caldwell Lead Sled to shoot any kind of rifle bigger than .22LR. Shotguns are out of the question. I use powderpuff loads in all handguns. I just have no need for new powders that are "supposed" to keep your bore clean after burning through 500-1000rds at one time. I'm slowly building up my inventory of rifle molds so I can shoot cast bullets in all my rifles. Cheaper & less recoil. But I'll still go through a bunch of H4895 shooting up Jacketed bullets in reduced loads.

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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BigMan54 posted this 13 August 2017

Ric I hope you're wrong about IMR powders being discontinued. Guess I'd just have to settle for CAST BULLET loads with UNIQUE.

But I've several 1lb cans & at least 1 8lb pounder for about every IMR powder I use. I just hope to survive long enough  to run out of powder about the time I go to the BIG RANGE.  

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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David Reiss CBA Membership Director posted this 13 August 2017

Ric is a smart guy, but I hope he is all wet on that statement!

 

David Reiss - NRA Life Member & PSC Range Member Retired Police Firearms Instructor/Armorer
-Services: Wars Fought, Uprisings Quelled, Bars Emptied, Revolutions Started, Tigers Tamed, Assassinations Plotted, Women Seduced, Governments Run, Gun Appraisals, Lost Treasure Found.
- Also deal in: Land, Banjos, Nails, Firearms, Manure, Fly Swatters, Used Cars, Whisky, Racing Forms, Rare Antiquities, Lead, Used Keyboard Keys & Dogs, Pith Helmets & Zulu Headdresses. .

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Old Coot posted this 13 August 2017

With all the different problems we have trying to make cast bullets shoot with their utmost accuracy it is a shame that we also have to fight economics in the fire arms industry.  Whatever sells the best will be kept, manufactured and sold.  What doesn't sell goes the way of our favorite discontinued powders, primers, and fire arms.  I would love to see good light weight 32/20 and 25/20 rifles for hunting small game, but the public wants firespittinloudenboomers that kick like to tomorrow that they buy them because they shoot new "improved " cartridges, and off they go into the woods with visions of killing game at totally unreasonable ranges.  Tis a shame, but that is what us old "fuddy duddy's" have to work with.  I recall a warden telling me that my 7x57 was "a shade too light to hunt elk with" as we stood next to the TWO ELK I HAD KILLED WITH ONE UNFORTUNATE SHOT.  He also amended that with: " They kill elk up here with a 22 rim fire all the time."  

We have to fight physics, ballistics, casting errors, the component companies, bedding, casting errors, alloys, lead shortages, case variation, lubricants, optics, and the weather.  All of the above make for great excuses why we didn't shoot that perfect group or score.  

Best wishes:

Brodie

 

 

B.E.Brickey

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RicinYakima posted this 13 August 2017

Brodie, the difference is with the words "hunt" and "kill". Poachers here jacklight hundreds of deer a year with 22lrs, and recover about 2/3 of them. A hunting rifle should have them dead within a 100 yards or so with a decent hit.

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Old Coot posted this 13 August 2017

Ric;

In my experience they usually shoot the deer in the head.  A risky shot at best; it is easy to miss the brain.  As far as a hunting rifle the only animal I ever shot that went more than a 100 yds was a buck pronghorn, I shot through the heart with a 150 gr. 30/06 from a little over 150yds.  I have seen geese hit full in the breast lock their wings, sail almost a mile and then die in mid air.  Those two dead elk were within 25 yds of each other.  The bull calf (yearling) I hadn't seen behind the cow got the base of a nosler partition through his heart.  The cow went down immediately at the shot ( high in chest just under the spine) which took out her dorsal aorta and impact shock affected the CNS so she went down right there.

The question of what arm is ethical is a very complex one.  David Pestal (sp) who writes for Sports Afield thinks that nothing less than a .338 Win Mag is necessary for Elk.  Gary Reeder and his wife believe firmly that it must have the magic name of magnum or you don't have any business hunting with it.  Personally I will go with enough bullet and proper bullet placement every time.  I leave "Energy" figures to the science fiction writers.  

We kind of got way off topic here I was trying to point out that we are and will always be subject to the whims and demands of product sales.  If they don't buy enough of it they will quit making it.  Business exists to make money......period.  Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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RicinYakima posted this 14 August 2017

Oh, I agree exactly! I was expanding upon the game warden two statements. There is no sense for me at my age chasing the latest trends, as I will be dead before they reach the peak. I use a 32/20 around the livestock, a 250/3000 with irons or .223 with scope for varmints and a .275 Rigby (160 gr. partitions) for everything else. I don't feel under-gunned. All the old powders get every thing my cartridges can deliver, so don't need the latest and greatest. Best wishes, Ric

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BigMan54 posted this 14 August 2017

Ric,

I too have an iron sighted .257 Roberts. It was the "family" gun all the boys took their 1st deer with. It's a U.S. M1917. Unfortunately it was made to "fit" pre-war factory ammo. I don't remember much of  the story behind it. It was bought from a friend of my Grandfather & has never been altered from the configuration we got it in. We never even replaced the G.I. floorplate with the initials; "FN". Beautiful 24" medium weight barrel, great polish/blue, nice wood but no checkering. Still cock on closing, dogleg bolt. REMINGTON factory 117gr RN ammo will hit POI at 100yds. 3 rds into 1 3/4" if I do my part. Use the HORNADY 117gr RN over 36grs IMR 4064.  Change to SIERRA 100gr SpitzerFB over 41grs IMR4064 & shift the rear sight 1 notch and it will put 3rds  into a    2 1/2"  group  at 200yds. Course it's been a good 15yrs since I could SEE WELL ENOUGH to shoot that well. 

I do LOVE the .25's.

Long time Caster/Reloader, Getting back into it after almost 10yrs. Life Member NRA 40+yrs, Life S.A.S.S. #375. Does this mean a description of me as a fumble-fingered knuckle-draggin' baboon. I also drool in my sleep. I firmly believe that true happiness is a warm gun.

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