NOE's New Old Bullet

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  • Last Post 24 April 2018
OU812 posted this 06 April 2018

Just wondering what some of you more experienced target shooters think of this bullet. I notice NOE rounded the front edges of nose like Frank requested. Is this bullet designed for a rifle that has lots of throat erosion? How would you fit this bullet to chamber or vice versa?

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=30_551&osCsid=peu13svn4ssha9f04bkkbb78r4

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OU812 posted this 24 April 2018

I am going to try bumping NOE's new bullet and shooting in my 308. I will cut die using .310 diameter x .75 degree per side reamer. Bullet will be pressed into die insert  to create taper then squeezed to align nose and make bullet more round. I am expecting good results, but lots more recoil than my 223.

I have about 5 lbs of 4759 ...thinking out loud

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GP Idaho posted this 14 April 2018

Second range trip today with the new NOE 311-214-FN  I got stuck on a 60yrd. berm as the range was busy. First off  I upped the charge of 4227 at Jim's suggestion and using 13gr. function was perfect so I still have a little room to work on a charge for accuracy.  Todays bullets had the gas checks seated with the NOE seating die and crimped on with a Lee .311 push through. No other alteration from as cast and they were pan lubed (White Label BAC) The pleasant surprise was when I tried these in my model 10 Savage tactical. One five round group went just under an inch and another one and a quarter. These are out to out measurements not center to center. Again, this is at just sixty yards but I'm pleased with that for a first try in .308 I've bought moulds that threw worse bullets.  Now that I have the function working with the AR it will be more fun testing than firing it single shot. I'll let you know how it goes.  Gp

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frnkeore posted this 13 April 2018

I do not know at what velocity the calculations are for but, I work in the lower supersonic range (~1470) and have tested several of bullets that I have and have witnessed several others as well as, gotten the results of two other bullets that were tested on Barry Darr's M43 ballistic lab. In those tests, most bullets had BC's very close to the calculated BC's on the TMT program. Two bullets had higher BC's than calculated.

All of the bullets that I have info on were of a spitzer design, with meplats of .080 or smaller. The one exception, to those tests is a 33 cal bullet that I designed and had Steve Brooks make. It had a .080 meplat but, was a little to long for the twist. It's designed BC was .491 and the actual was .375. I assumed the reduction was because of the nose wobbling in flight.

BUT, you may have a point that the MX 30-ARD doesn't actually have the designed BC. That because of the large meplat of .130. But, I would be very, very supprized if the BC was less than .38. Much of the calculation is based on the ogive radius but, the flat of the meplat will effect it, if it to large.

Even though a meplat is small, a short nose still acts much like large meplat, in that the air will have a lot of trouble following it's contour, especially in supersonic flight.

How was your BC measured?

Frank

 

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rmrix posted this 13 April 2018

The estimated Bc of the MX3-30-ARD might be a little optimistic.   At what velocity is that estimate calculated for?

I have, some 25 plus years ago, shot two chronograph Bc tests with the as cast and bumped MX-3-30-ARD. I was overly interested in that kinda stuff in those days.  I do not have the data to look at here, but my very poor memory of it thinks both the as cast and bumped versions I shot had Bc's in the 0.3's. At the time I did not feel the difference was worth much and the bumped bullets shot better in my chamber, hands down.

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OU812 posted this 12 April 2018

That's a very good comparison.

Thank You, Keith

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frnkeore posted this 12 April 2018

Here you go:

 

This is the MX3-30 ARD

 

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OU812 posted this 12 April 2018

"What bullet does your dimensions come from?"

Bumped Meplat is smaller .160 and has more rounded edge than one pictured below.

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frnkeore posted this 12 April 2018

OU812,

I was referring to rmrix bumped bullet, to show how much the short pointy nose negatively effected the BC.

What bullet does your dimensions come from?

Frank

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OU812 posted this 12 April 2018

John,

If he could give me the OAL and the distance to the start of the nose (ogive), I can draw the bullet and show what the BC difference would be, between the two bullets.

Frank

Linotype bullet weight:................191 grs

OAL with Gas Check............... 1.134"

Distance to nose ogive:............ .880"

Meplat diameter:....................... .160"

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frnkeore posted this 11 April 2018

John,

Your not wrong but, it has to have a longer pointy nose. In "bumping" the bullet, the nose is much shorter than the original version. Bullets can gain a higher BC by being made longer overall, too but, that has more to do with increasing the sectional density (weight). Here the bullet weights the same but, has been made shorter.

BC is measured by dividing the SD by the form factor. The longer nose, is a product of the form factor.

If he could give me the OAL and the distance to the start of the nose (ogive), I can draw the bullet and show what the BC difference would be, between the two bullets.

Frank

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John Alexander posted this 11 April 2018

 Frank,

Yesterday you wrote, "The bullet, as cast, has a good BC. Bumping it, as you do, even though it is more pointed, reduces the BC."

In my simple mind I always thought  longer, pointier (technical term) bullets had better BCs. Why am I wrong.

John

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OU812 posted this 11 April 2018

New NOE bullet as cast (center)

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OU812 posted this 11 April 2018

This new NOE bullet does not fit my Thompson very well...bumping or sqeezing is needed to make fit. I need to make nose punch to match nose (35 degree included or 17.5 per side angle) so I can squeeze from .299 to larger .301

For now I will be using my custom Accurate mold 31-210M instead. This bullet has been bumped from .299 to a larger .301 for perfect strait bore riding fit. The long free bore diameter of pound cast is .3095. Bullet Bands are about .3093 

I have never shot this bullet in any gun, but I believe it will shoot very good?

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Scearcy posted this 10 April 2018

2 years ago I wrote 3 articles on the 300 Blackout. These articles were published in TFS. The point of this is that after shooting a 300 Blackout in matches for 2 years, I settled on 3 powders : 4227, H4198 and AA1680. I shot the 311299 about half of the time. Go slowly but you may well find best accuracy north of 12.5 gr.

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GP Idaho posted this 10 April 2018

I received my mould yesterday and cleaned it up and temperature cycled it as per NOE's instructions. Within about 20 casts it was dropping nice bullets. This is one feature I appreciate about the NOE aluminum moulds in that the ones I've purchased don't take a lot of breaking in. As for mould lube, I like the tip I was given by Gary. I now use dielectric silicone grease under the sprue plate as it does not migrate into the cavities and lasts a LONG time. A little bit goes a long way so don't get carried away.  On the pins I use 2-cycle oil.  First rounds sent down range today out of my 300 Blackout AR. Sadly, I was a bit timid with my load as it was just a WAG. 200gr 299s have been cycling just fine with 12.5gr. IMR 4227 but this bullet weighing an average of 217.5 won't cycle the bolt with 10.5gr. Wind was whipping today so no attempt was made to shoot a group. No problem hitting clays at about 60yrds. though fired single shot.  I'll try some as cast as soon. The ones sent today were altered and powder coated. the nose was sized to a strait .301 and the bands were sized to.311 Looks like it's worth some exploring as a 300 blackout bullet. Gp

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OU812 posted this 10 April 2018

I received my mold and inspected it using magnifying loop. Some of the vent lines were clogged in band area of cavity caused by burrs leftover after cutting. I removed these burrs using sharp lead pencil. Next i scrubbed cavities using electric tooth brush and Arm and Hammer toothpaste with baking soda. I then sanded top of mould using 220 grit paper and flat surface. The rougher surface holds more lube to prevent sprue plate gaulding during opening by hand (downward pressure against mold). Aluminum molds will gauld more easily than brass or steel.

I really like NOE's mold lube. Apply thin film using QTip before and during casting. Too much lube will contaminate  leaving ugly bases and bullets.

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OU812 posted this 10 April 2018

I guess the trick is fitting the bullet to throat and zero loaded neck clearance against neck area of chamber. After firing, bullet can be seated without resizing case, new loaded round is chambered with slight resistance against neck and tapered throat (custom chamber reamer).

Here is a picture of die I made to squeeze the bullet to desired shape. Each bullet is squeezed exact amount during cam over of Rock Chucker press. You can use ether the expanding or neck crimp Lee die body to hold inserts for shaping or squeezing. The Mini lathe makes it possible for me to make these.

You can also press the tapered bullet into tapered die insert before sqeezing fatter and more round.

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frnkeore posted this 09 April 2018

Your MX3-30 ARD was designed for Ardito's throat of 1991. That throat has a 1/2 deg (per side) leade and this bullet matches that.

The bullet, as cast, has a good BC. Bumping it, as you do, even though it is more pointed, reduces the BC.

If you do not have the 1/2 deg throat, I think it would shoot better, as cast in that throat.

With it's 1.14 length, it's a good bullet for a 13 or 14 twist.

Frank

 

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Paul Pollard posted this 09 April 2018

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rmrix posted this 09 April 2018

 For what it is worth, I have an interest in Eagan molds. I think the thread topic relates to this mold as well.

 

This is the MX 330 ARD mold and the bullet out of it after it has been bumped to what I think might be the MX-4-30-ARD before Eagan made a cherry for it.  That is a guess.  Edit - also my bumped bullet lacks the larger flat on the nose.

This thread got my attention because the above drawings look to be this bumped bullet but with the added upper GG. Any info someone can add would be interesting.

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