I got lucky on another GunBroker auction and picked up a 1914 date of manufacture Colt New Service in .455 Eley. Looks like it will be a great shooter and I look forward to a range trip when the wind dies down, the snow melts and the temperature is above freeezing.
Who else here has a New Service Colt? What caliber? What do you shoot in yours?
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
I bought mine as a basket of parts, .455 Webley frame, 38 special cylinder that had been bored to .428" and no barrel. Chambered the cylinder in 44 Special and made a heavy 5 inch barrel from a Green Mountain blank. Good shooter, ugly as sin.
Attached Files
I have a half dozen.Two .45 Colt,.38-40,.44-40,.45ACP,and .38 Spl.I use cast bullets in all of them.The .45ACP was worked on by somebody who knew what he was doing.The action is better than the Python and Officers Models I own.It has the old style Micro sights and the barrel is a newer .45 Colt barrel.
Attached Files
Now I am not much of a handgun guy but the old horse has serious character. I look forward to the range report.
Jim
Attached Files
Mine is a 1920-vintage commercial model, .45 Colt, 5 1/2" barrel. Superb condition, excellent lock up/timing, nice trigger pull (don't ask me how heavy a pull, I never measured it). Throats are a uniform .454 so I size my 454424"s to that diameter. Cast of WW's+lead, 50/50 lube, 7.0 grains Univ Clays, it is my standard load for defending the backyard from marauding beer cans, clay pigeons, and dirt clods.
I too am not much of a handgun guy and the moment I found this load to shoot well in this gun 15 years ago I stopped right there with experimenting any more.
Attached Files
Duke, (timidly raising his hand in the back of the class room)," I do Mr. Harris sir." A 1930 38 w.c.f. I am having a bit of a "thing" about that cartridge, so I have a 1910 Model 92 rifle, a 1910 SAA, the New Service, and a Uberti SAA clone. I have a Magma 40-180-rnfp mould and I have loaded 5.5 grains of Trail Boss and I am comfortable shooting that in all of them. I'd like to standardize at 8.0 grains of Unique, but I'm a little uncertain about the 1st Gen SAA. I size to .402". Sadly the New Service shoots 6" low at 20 yards and I'm afraid I'll go to hell if I file the front sight to raise the point of impact.
Attached Files
Dukem,
Not sure if Accurate 40-220H or 224H would fit in your Colt cylinder, but if you'd like some samples to try, PM me with your snailmail address and I'll send you a few.
I don't recall anyone writing about the .38-40 for The Fouling Shot. It would seem your stable is well equipped and that you would be just the fellow to do so. Please accept my encouragement to proceed on that project when it would please you.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
New Service; .45 Colt, 7 1/2 barrel, standard commercial model. Later production with the flexible firing pin. My father was in the USMC headed for the South Pacific and wanted more security. He bought it from a retired South Dakota City Marshall living in Rock Island, Illinois and then bought a full-flap holster in Oceanside, California.
The load is 6.5 grains Unique, 200 grain H&G semi-wadcutter, a good load for both the New Service and the Colt SAA. This load was effective enough to kill dogs running the sows with pigs and a groundhog in the yard.
This revolver has a history:
The pistol was manufactured in 1915.
The Marshall carved an Easter Bunny with Easter Basket in the left hand grip.
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
Attached Files
.jpg?width=20 "JohnForrest")
Dukem,
Not sure if Accurate 40-220H or 224H would fit in your Colt cylinder, but if you'd like some samples to try, PM me with your snailmail address and I'll send you a few.
I'll make a careful measurement of the cylinder to compare with your diagram of Accurate's bullet. Plus 40 grains should raise the point of impact some.
Duke
Attached Files
I also have a 38-40 my father picked up in late 50's. 5 1/2 " barrel, 1923 vintage in excellent shape, with an old holster by S. D. Myers which is still good. Lately experimenting w a Ruger NMBH in 38-40 and trying to get to range with latest loads w/401043 6.0 grs HP38 and some 10 year old 401043 with 7.7 gr Unique (which I just noticed is over the new recommendations in 4th Lyman Cast bullet manual - my old one (3rd) went to 10 grs with 401043). Probably ok in Ruger - powder was from 2009 or before: anyone aware of powder changes or just more conservative data?
Thanks
Attached Files
My understanding is that Lyman is being very cautious with load data which they are unable to pressure test. Much of the older data would exceed SAAMI MAP, and was developed using subjective pressure signs which are now deemed unreliable. The publishers of today's loading manuals are more concerned with ensuring safe loads than seeing how large a velocity number they can get. They must also tailor the loads for the weakest gun they might be used in. I think that your 7.7 of Unique is probaby fine in a 1923 New Service, but not in a black powder frame Colt Frontier Six Shooter.
A practice I have used successfully is to measure the velocity of factory loads in the gun, several different batches, including "vintage" ammo when obtainable. Often I have purchased partial boxes of pre-WW2 ammo just for the purpose of testing them, using that data to benchmark what my handloads should do. In calibers like the .32-20 and .44-40 I have found this method produces useful results. I would surmise the .38-40 would do likewise.
If unable to test .38-40 factory ammo, I would shoot for comparison a full-charge black powder load using good quality powder, with light compression and a suitable bullet of correct hardness, weight and diameter. Hopefully DukeM will chime in here and provide a more learned comment on your load, but I believe my judgement to be correct.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Ed: Is the .455 Eley the same as the British .455 service ammo? Who would those revolvers have been made for?
Cheers from New Zealand
Attached Files
The .455 Colt and the .455 Eley were commercial loads assembled with 265-grain lead hollow-based bullet in the longer 0.86" Mk1 type case, versus the shorter 0.76" case used in most British, Cdn. and ANZAC service loads.
A good reference is: http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=introduction-to-455-cartridges
Canadian Army officers, like their British counterparts, purchased sidearms at their own expense. The only stipulation was that commercial pistols had to be able to use issue service ammunition. Both the British and Canadian governments also purchased pistols for issue as needed to other ranks. Most of the .455 revolvers still available in the US came across from the Canadian surplus market, and unlike most of the .455 revolvers imported into the US before 1968 that were shaved to fire .45 ACP cartridges, the Canadian examples are usually still unaltered and being chambered in their original .455 caliber.
My New Service is one of those.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Now THAT is a confusing subject. BEST quote from the text referring to the .450 Adams cartridge. "Adams gun/cartridge’s lack of effectiveness where it served more to annoy the natives than to dispatch them." LOL.
Cheers from New Zealand
Attached Files
Well, a .455" pure lead bullet weighting 225 grains at 650 f/s may not sound like much, I would not want to get hit with one. On the other side, unless you had a body hit above the diaphragm or in the CNS, it was not a stopper. Took them a couple of minutes to realize they were dead.
Attached Files
Well Ed, indeed I do have a nice stable of 38 w.c.f. firearms, and I have an Oehler chronograph, and I am not intimidated by writing articles, so. It just may be awhile before I dive in because Wisconsin weather can be challenging. Plus in addition to casting, loading, and shooting, I ice fish, open water fish, ride motorcycle, and mess with a hotrod and a 57 Olds Super 88. In about 10 days I'll be ending my second stint as a LEO after 43 years, so that will free up some time. Now, off to the debris field I call a reloading room and measure that New Service cylinder length.
DukeM
Attached Files
Darn it Ed, the nose of your 220 gr. Accurate 40 caliber bullet is .025" too long, and that would be with the bullet nose perfectly flush with the front of the cylinder.
Duke
Attached Files
You could order 40-220H with its nose shortened by 0.04, reducing its overall length to .66, which would provide about a 0.315" diameter meplat.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
I did some chronograph work yesterday - some results follow straight off the tape.
38-40 401043/WW0.401 7.7 GRS Unique Rem-UMC balloon head cases, CCI 300 loaded in 2009 944 fpsm, Ruger NMBH
401043/WW/0.401 6.0 grs HP 38 reformed 44-40 range brass CCI 300 in Ruger NMBH 852 fps mean; Same loads in Colt New Service 776 fpsm Ruger must be tighter.
For Ed's info United States Cartridge Company Caliber 38 for Winchester 1873 (light blue box marked LESMOK Central Fire Solid Head), cases are Balloon head with a small primer inscribed with US on face. Box has 2 SC business license tax 5 cent stamps on top. Fired 6 rds in Ruger NMBH since I figured it would be easier to clean - 849 fpsm with 812 to 884 spread, lots of smoke and all went bang. Took a while to clean before I did anything else.
Western 38-40 180 gr SP, yellow box, no zip code, 2 8 cent SC tax stamps, probably from the 60's 1068 fpsm from Ruger.
Old Rem-UMC JSP Balloon head only got one reading for 3 rds (one didn't fire), probably operator error 960 fps.
Have readings for misc. 32-20, 45 Colt and 38 SP/357 loads available. if anyone is interested.
I did learn that a Ruger OMBH that has many problems, some fixed, is only going to be accurate using 357 brass, while I have been trying to make it shoot with 38 spl brass - apparently the excess cyl gap and 0.360 throats don't like short brass.
Thanks for reading.
Attached Files
Alyman#1,
What is barrel length? 5-1/2"?
Would be helpful to measure cylinder gap also, as that is another variable.
If you want some .360" bullets to try in your OMBH I can send you some.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Does anyone have an idea what factory ammo pressures and velocity was like in 1910. I have a 1910 SAA and a 1910 Model 92, and the 1930 New Service. I would be comfortable replicating 1910 factory ammo in any of those firearms. I believe 180 grain bullets were standard, and since the New Service is not even close to pristine, I could file the front sight with a fairly clear conscience.
Duke
Attached Files
According to Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers (1935) revolver loads for the .38-40 produced 950 fps from a 5-1/2" barrel at a maximum pressure of 14,000 c.u.p. using 16 grains of Sharpshooter, 14 grains of S.R. No. 80 or 33 grains of King's Semi Smokeless.
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) on p. 261 lists 5.4 grains of Bullseye as an "accuracy load" with RCBS #40-180CM for 898 fps at 12,400 psi. Velocities in 7-1/2" barrel.
Also listed are are 5.5 grains of TiteGroup for 893 fps at 11,700 psi,
6.0 grains of Trailboss for 794 fps at 10,500 psi,
or 7.2 grains of Unique for 897 fps at 11,100 psi,
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
.jpg?width=20 "Dukem")
I have my grandfather's New Service made in 1910. 45 Colt. I shoot it regularly with 250 gr cast bullets.
Texas will secede and take its place among the nations once more
Attached Files
.45 Colt but my dad took it!! Okay, it is still his. It was my granddaddy's
44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40
Attached Files
Slicked it up a little, enough to where my daughter can shoot it.
44-40 Website - https://sites.google.com/view/44winchester/chasing-the-44-40
Attached Files
New design for Colt New Service .455
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Ed - barrel length is 5 1/2"; cylinder gap is 0.008 pass 0.009 hold if I did your procedure correctly. According to my old records the bore is 0.394, groove is 0.403-0.405 and chambers are 0.400". The only load I chronographed from New Service was 6.0 grs HP38 w/401043 bullet.All the rest are with Ruger NMBH since I had never chrono'ed New Service. NMBH Cylinder gap is 0.004 pass, 0.005 hold - 0.395 bore - 0.4005 groove with 0.398 chambers. I had not checked dimensions when I posted earlier.
The 357 OMBH did quite well for me finally with 357 cases and the same bullets I was working with (Rem bulk 23634 358 dia which run slightly over) 4-5" vs not keeping 38 loads in a SB 100 yard at 25 yards and me fighting the flinches. Most of my cast bullets don't run large enough as cast, but I haven't run any lately so will try that soon. What do you have that run that large. Thanks
Al
Attached Files
Bullets I use in .38 Special which run large are:
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
New Accurate 45-264D mold arrived today. If anyone here who shoots .455 is willing to shoot test groups, or easure velocities, PLEASE PM me and I will send as-cast, naked bullets for you to size and lube as you like.
Recommended charge is 3.5 grains of Bullseye in 0.76" Starline or Hornady .455 Mk2 brass and 4 grains in Dominion 0.86" .455 Eley cases or in "shaved" revolvers firing .45 ACP or Auto Rim .890" cases. Also you could use 4.0 grains of 231, WST, 7625 or 452AA in the .76" Mk2 cases or 4.5 grains of Unique or Universal in the 0.86" Mk1 .455 Eley/Colt cases.
I would request photos of targets, chronograph data if able to do so, revolver description, cylinder gap hepful, all for compiing and publication in The Fouling Shot.
Left to right:
WW2-era Kynoch (1942) MkVIz ball cartridge with 265-grain FMJ bullet.
.455 Eley assembled in reworked Starline .45 Schofield case shortened to 0.86" and rim turned. Bullet is Accurate 45-290H, which I load with 3.5 grains of Bullseye.
Fiocchi 0.76" length .455 Mk2 case, assembled with new Accurate 45-264H bullet. Note that cylindrical front band above crimp groove approximates height of .455 Eley case mouth, to aid cartridge alignment in Webley chambers which are normally long enough to accept either round.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
25-yard sandbagged groups should be self-explanatory
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
I think that will solve every "wolf at the door" problem anyone ever has.
Attached Files
In digging through my ammo, I located both a box of Remington and Peters Factory Soft Point 38-40 loads that I believe are from the late 50's early 60's- it is my intention to chronograph these in both New Service and NMBH. Don't know when it will happen, but will post when done.
Also tried to find out some more info on the US Cartridge Co 38-40 loads chronographed and reported above. One of the collector sites had pictorial list of 22 ammo boxes by US Cartridge Co. another site notes that Winchester took over USCCo in 1926 and subsequent boxes were not marked Lowell Mass. The 22 site noted that the Light blue half boxes with US in a circle were used from approximately 1910 into the 1920's - given that my New Service dates from 1923, it seems logical. I hope this might help with dating these loads, which were with the revolver when obtained in the late 50's.
I did find a site that showed Remington ammo boxes and the changes over the years with some dating information. All of these sites are cartridge collector locations.
Al
Attached Files
Some data taken recently follows:
Peters 38-40 180 gr JSP Index 3856 from 1962-68 in New Service (1923) 859 mean, ES 74 for 5 rounds.
Remington 39-40 180 gr JSP Index 8138 from 1961 in NS 822 avg ES 121 for 5 rounds
Reload 180 gr 401043 7.7 gr Unique in Rem-UMC balloon head cases 829 mean 69 ES for 4 rounds.
Reload 180 gr hard cast Ga Arms bullet 7.2 grs Unique in mixed modern brass 883 mean ES 101 for 5 rounds.
Some loads fired in Ruger NMBH
Reload 180 hard cast 7.2 grs Unique modern brass 1001 mean ES 69 for 4 rds
Peters 180 JSP 2 rds 886 fps (both)
Remington 180 JSP 1 round 854 fps
Dating for the Rem/Peters ammo above was from photos from International Ammunition Association reference articles. Both Remington and Peters headstamps are R_P and the Peters brass appears to have a slight balloon head configuration while the Remington is similar to the modern brass I have. Advertised velocities listed in several Stoeger's catalogs going back to 1947 show 1310 to 1330 fps for rifle and 975 to 985 for revolver in 1947, to 775 fps in 1966 for both brands Western velocities for the ammo chronographed earlier are similar.
Am working on getting some photos of boxes and New Service when I learn the ropes.
For Dukem, just know that I filed down the front sight on mine probably 40 or 50 years ago and didn't think a thing about it in my ignorance.
Al
Attached Files
38-40 New Service with original grips and S. D. Myers holster
US Cartridge Co probably from 1920's 180? gr lead using LESMOK powder
Peters 3840 180 JSP
Western 180 gr JSP from 60''s
Rem 3840 180 JSP from 1961
New service front sight as filed down years ago - works with most of the reloads I have used.
Hope these first efforts are OK - still have several things to work out navigating the process.
Al
Attached Files
Really great photos and data on the .38-40, thanks for posting!
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Best load so far in the .455 Eley Colt New Service. Detailed doc'ed on the target. This load is fine in the Colt New Service, but I would NOT try it in a hinged-top Webley!
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Now you guys have gone and done it - I have my eye on one that's for sale in an ad in Gun Digest Magazine. The .455 Eley caliber are a good bit lower priced than a similar .45 Colt. Well. Most guys who don't handload want a gat they can buy "shells" for OTC in most any discount store, but the money saved on the .455 Eley one would easily buy a mold, die set, and a big bag of brass...Starline has brass...I got nothing against .45 Colt, but for a lot less money to get something more different - Lord knows I seem to like "different"..LOL.
Attached Files
The ability to appreciate historic and unique firearms is the sign of a mature individual. Mostly.
Attached Files
i see the latest speer loaderbook has dropped 45 colt .... sigh ...
ken
Attached Files
Welllll, She certainly is pretty and shoots fairly well, even if it is only a 99, which I haven't been able to do for quite a while. I think I had better go practice.
B.E.Brickey
Attached Files
Welllll, She certainly is pretty and shoots fairly well, even if it is only a 99, which I haven't been able to do for quite a while. I think I had better go practice.
LOL! The sandbags help the grouping, but the 70-year-old eyeballs, even with my new Eye Pals don't hold perfect elevation with iron sights all of the time
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
I have enjoyed reading all the post here. The New Service I am shooting is a 44-40 made in 1915. I have come to really appreciate this cartridge in rifles and wanted to have a revolver but prefer double action Colts to the single action. For those that want to know the details the cylinder throats allow and 0.429 bulletin to just pass on two of the chambers and hold on the other four. Barrel is 0.4275 and the cylinder gap 0.007. Winter has prevented getting to the range and casting until this month. I had a box of commercial 225 grain 0.429 cast given to me. I have shot a few of these with 5.0 grains of Bullseye. The accuracy was less than I thought the old Colt could do and I suspect the bullets and lube are too hard. A new Accurate mold casting a 205 grain is here and this has now become the summers project. Given the age of the Colt and the fixed sights I will stay with the level one loads and bullseye and 231. Just a not to other shooting the 44-40 I have searched a number of references on loading the 44-40 and find the a number of authors in the main line print list hotter loading for the cartrige that are likely more in line with Lymans level two firearms.
Again for all those posting on these old cartridges I have enjoy the comments. I find these much more interesting than any of the newer cartridges. While I might not be shooting the same cartridge it is always possible to learn from the experiences of others.
Keith DVM
Attached Files
I concur about the romance and nostalgia of the old revolvers. Shooting the New Service brings the nostalgia of my teen years on the farm a time long ago and a land far away. My father killed a full-tilt running Doberman at eighty yards with 6.5 grains Unique and the H&G 200 grain semi-wadcutter,
I do not need loads any more powerful. After discussion with Ric Bowman at a Puyallup match, I am sticking with 6.5 grains Unique and a 200 grain H&G semi-wadcutter, or the 235 grain SAECO 954, for the New Service, Schofield, and Colt SAA, Second Generation.
One aspect of these revolvers is the knife blade and gutter sights. There is a annual match honoring Elmer Keith south of Spokane. The targets are set at 140, 200, 265 and 650 yards. The competition is fierce, but friendly. Guns are restricted to iron sights, 10 1/2 inch barrels or less, and only iron sights. Ten shots at any target, you get a choice. The smaller and farther targets score higher. It will be a challenge to shoot this match with the New Service and the SAA. The knife blade and gutter sights would be more in line with the early days of Elmer Keith.
Farm boy from Illinois, living in the magical Pacific Northwest
Attached Files
Just noted the 455 Eley thread. My dad bought at New Service with black grips and lanyard loop from Sears many years ago. When he bought it, it had already been modified to shoot 45 Colt. The 455 Eley stamp was over stamped with 45 Colt on the barrel and adifferent serial numbered cylinder was installed. It shoots factory lead 45 Colt just fine. I enjoy shooting it and am looking for a period holster to accompany it. I've read about this common conversion and intend to request a letter from Colt as to its history.
After measuring the bore and cylinder I wish I had kept a Lee 200 grain mold that dropped .454 bullets. Ricently I looked for the Lee 454-200 I once had, but they must have redone their molds, now it is 452-200.
Bruce
73 de NT7Z
Attached Files
Just noted the 455 Eley thread. My dad bought at New Service with black grips and lanyard loop from Sears many years ago. When he bought it, it had already been modified to shoot 45 Colt. The 455 Eley stamp was over stamped with 45 Colt on the barrel and adifferent serial numbered cylinder was installed. It shoots factory lead 45 Colt just fine. I enjoy shooting it and am looking for a period holster to accompany it. I've read about this common conversion and intend to request a letter from Colt as to its history.
After measuring the bore and cylinder I wish I had kept a Lee 200 grain mold that dropped .454 bullets. Ricently I looked for the Lee 454-200 I once had, but they must have redone their molds, now it is 452-200.
Bruce
73 de NT7Z
Unless the front sght has been filed, you will probably find that your revolver will shoot to the sights with a heavier bullet around 260 grains.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Ed, I looked closer at my New Service and bullets. It has a 1914 dated serial number and the barrel is 5 1/2 inches. It's finish is more like parkerized than the lustrous Colt blue of my older Police Positive Specials. I have slugged the barrel and cylinders but don't have that information handy. I have a couple Lee 255+ grain, .455+ diameter cast bullets, not 200 grain. The front sight measures 0.398 inches, which does not look filed. I shoot factory yellow box Winchester 255 grain 860 fps ammo. I've reread your New Service article and it renews my interest in firing at 20-25 yds over a rest to note point of impact.
What distance would I expect point of aim and point of impact to converge on this original New Service 455 Eley converted to 45 Colt?
Bruce
Attached Files
The cylinder throats on all three of my Colt New Service revolvers in .455, .45 ACP and .45 Colt are .456" diameter. I would expect your 1914 revolver to be likewise. My .455 was made in the same year which yours was and firing handloads with Accurate 45-264D POI is low in the black at 25 yards with a 6:00 hold. Elevation is more dependent upon bullet weight than velocity, but differences in recoil and manner of hold will affect windage, as my .45 Colt target below shows.
My .45 ACP is a bit low and right with GI Ball.
The .45 Colt shoots on with Accurate 45-259EB and a charge matching black powder velocity, but current factory loads shoot a bit right and LBT ogival wadcutters shoot a bit left. It pays to experiment with loads before turning the barrel or filing on the sights.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
" It pays to experiment with loads before turning the barrel or filing on the sights."
Print this in big letters and post it over your reloading press. For twenty years I modified sights, like they said in the grocery store gunzines, before I learn that was wrong. At 25 yards you can move POI three inches in any direction by changing bullet and powder. The only exception is that you will only load one 45 Colt load and use it in every 45 Colt you own, or will ever own.
Attached Files
" It pays to experiment with loads before turning the barrel or filing on the sights."
Print this in big letters and post it over your reloading press. For twenty years I modified sights, like they said in the grocery store gunzines, before I learn that was wrong. At 25 yards you can move POI three inches in any direction by changing bullet and powder. The only exception is that you will only load one 45 Colt load and use it in every 45 Colt you own, or will ever own.
Yes, Ric. I made the same mistakes years ago. Frank Marshall drilled into me:
"HEAVY BULLET SHOOTS HIGH, LIGHT BULLET SHOOTS LOW and for a right handed shooter, HARD KICKERS SHOOT RIGHT, LIMP WRISTED PUSSIES ARE LEFTISTS!
And for any non-magnum handgun load in any caliber, BULLSEYE powder with factory weight bullet to achieve the catalogue velocity should shoot to the sights!
In the .45 Colt 6.5 grains of Bullseye with 255-grain bullet was the factory charge at WRA and Western until after WW2 when they went to Ball powder (either 9 grains of WC630 or 7 grains of WC230). Alternate loading used before WW2 by U.S. Cartridge Co. and Peters Ctg. Co. was 9 grains of Infallible, which is closely approximated today by either 8 grains of Unique or 9 grains of Herco with #454190, #454424, Saeco #955 or similar.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
I couldn't help myself. This one came into a local shop where I already had other items on consignment. It used to belong to the U.S. Postmaster of Upperville, VA. A swap was made, and I traded a quantity of rather ordinary items even-up for one quality piece. I now have a 1920 date of manufacture New Service in .44-40 to keep my 1914 .455, 1918 .45 ACP and 1923 .45 Colt company. Perfect mechanics, bright, shiny bore. Cylinder throats measure .4282-.4285", cylinder gap 0.008" pass/0.009" hold, barrel groove diameter .427, chamber necks .450". Range report to follow when the hot weather breaks.
Range Report 20 Sept 2019 - same load the Colt Frontier Six Shooter likes, Accurate 43-206H with 6 grs. Bullseye
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
That looks like a really fine specimen. I would be astounded if it did not shoot as good as it looks. The cylinder throat to bore measurements are favorable.
The guys who are only into modern magnums are missing out on some really great old guns, guns that hit hard enough for any reasonable purpose, but don't go overboard with blast and recoil. And are just plain fun to shoot, and usually start conversations at the range if you are not alone. But, that's OK, guns like this one are not that common, so anyone who isn't into them, can just stay that way. More for us, the cognoscenti.
Attached Files
Ric Bowman is the only one who noticed the "Ranger Bands" around the base of the butt and grip adapter. A kink I was taught by MSG George Jasper of the 75th Ranger Regt. which I have applied to all of my Colt New Service revolvers. This is a WW2 hand-me-down learned from George's father who served with 10th Mtn. Div. in Italy during WW2.
Rather than cutting my own from bicycle inner tubes, I got bought new ones from https://gearward.com/products/ranger-bands
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Ed I have been cutting bands from inner tubes thanks for the link, those look stronger. What was the purpose of the one at the base of the grip? Just a convenient place for one or to cover the end of the grip adapter? I use rubber bands on the grip of my S&W model 38 for IWB carry on Sunday, only day I tuck my shirttail in.
Attached Files
The used grip adapters I got from Numrich had age hardened a bit and didn't fit the Colt grip frame exactly. If you look at the photo of the .455 at the begining of the thread, the gap is obvious. So I used the Gearward Ranger Band https://gearward.com/products/ranger-bands to bend the end of the grip adapter slightly and to cover the gap.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
New Accurate mold for .45 Colt is 45-264H, having .32" meplat (full 0.7 of bullet diameter!) and full-diameter forepart to fit cylinder throats. Nose-to-crimp length length is .375" to fit Colt SAA or New Service cylinder.
I ordered mine with .454" diameter driving bands and forepart north of the crimp groove, relying on Tom's normal +0.002" tolerance to fit my .455-.456" cylinder throats in the Colt New Service as-cast and unsized. Should also be a good bullet for .45 Auto Rim.
I'm using 45-264D, which has a longer .425" nose, but reduced .24" seating depth for the .455 in the Starline 0.76" Mk2 cases.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
I took my 44-40 out today. A slow afternoon for cow vets and a board meeting for our local range was an excuse to test out two loads. I find that wrist rested over sandbags the sights shoot on very accurately on a NRA B-3 with a 6:00 hold. I am a bit perplexed that off hand shots tend to go low on a NRA B-16 at 25 yards. I found today that a center hold put them in the black. When that big hammer hits the shot can be easily dropped down just like with a single action Colt. I have to pay attention as an lack of good technique real puts the shot out of the group. I tried two loads for the day: 6.2 of Bullseye ( Little Dandy #11) with Accurate 43-205T and 5.0 grains of Bullseye with 43-240A. Both shoot to the same point and no difference in accuracy. I prefer the 205 grain. I may try the Accurate 43-220C that I use in a Marlin on another day. I really like these older Colts as I have yet to find one that is not accurate.
Keith DVM
Attached Files
Keith, thanks for posting the Little Dandy Rotor No. Many people have thanked me since I started doing this in my FS articles, as it makes it easier for people with these measures to duplicate a well-established and proven load.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
I had another day available to take the New Service 44-40 to the range. Just a few comments on loading. I have a Accurate mold 43-219S that I believe is based on the old Lyman 42798 design that I was using in a Marlin. I thought I would give that a try. The mold cast a 220 grain weight from 1 to 30 alloy when sized and lubed. I find no published load for the weight. Several references list 5.0 of Bullseye with a 240 grain, which I had tried prior to this. I loaded 5.7 of Bullseye using a Little Dandy rotor 10 for this lighter bulllet. The load was as accurate as any I have tried and showed no pressure issues. I find there is little difference in any of the bullets I have cast and loaded for this New Service. Either accuracy or point the point of impact at 25 yards, something I did not expect. I suspect 5.0 of Bullseye will work as well with the 43-219S and be a bit easier on a 100 year old frame.
For those that are interested in details, the cylinder gap on this New Service is 0.008 pass and 0.009 hold. The bore is 0.427. I did not measure the cylinder throats but 0.430 bullets in Starline case drop into the cylinder.
Keith DVM
Attached Files
Keith, thanks for the great data point!
I use the Little Dandy #11, which meters 6 grains of current Alliant Bullseye for my New Service and Colt SA with both the Accurate 43-206H and the 43-230G. In the past I have used hotter loads up to 7.2 grains in my Ruger revolvers and Marlin rifles, but would avoid that load in the older revolvers. My future plan is to throttle all of my .44-40 loads back a bit, as the hotter loads get shot up, standardizing on either 6 grains of Bullseye or 6.5 of 452AA, as the lighter loads shoot well and at over 900 fps from 5-1/2 inch revolver quite have enough ooomph for field use. At present I'm using the heavier load only inStarline brass to it's easy to keep seperate, and have segregated the older brass of other makes for use in the two Colts.
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) on p.268 lists 6.5 of Bullseye with #427098, weight being 206-grains in #2 alloy, for 962 fps at 12,700 cup from a 6" solid barrel in Universal Receiver. I'm matching that velocity with 6 grains of Alliant BE in both my Colts, so I figure 6 grains is a good place to quit for use in the old guns.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Thank you for the comments Ed. I agree with the 6.0 of Bullseye and the 200 to 205 grain and will as well likely be standardizing on that once I have used up the 220 grains that are cast. I use the different molds that cast a visually recognized bullet to differentiate loads. The main one to keep separate is those I use in a Marlin 94 (43-240A) loaded with Reloader 7. This load is too long to function in a 73 Win, or a Colt. It will fit a New Service but other than knowing it will work I don’t see the need. Not much opportunity where I am for field use of a revolver. My field time is spent with a Brittany and 1 gauge.
Thank again Keith DVM
Attached Files
My affliction is incurable. This one called out to me. An old highway patrol gun holster worn, but with bright bore, tight lockup and crisp action. A 5" .357 magnum made in 1939. Can't believe that I got it on GunBroker for only $730.
For those of you who have been counting, I'm now up to FIVE New Service revolvers, .455, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .44-40 and .357... Much better to do this with my minimum required IRA distributions than frequenting the biker bars and flirting with loose women on US Rt. 11.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Ed,
In your .45 revolvers....do you mainly shoot .45 ACP rounds with the clips and avoid the use of .45 Auto Rim? If so, what is the reason to not use the .45 AR version?
Thanks!
Tom
Attached Files
I use mostly .45 ACP with clips because I have so much of it.
I do have some Auto Rim brass, but I use that mostly for load development and comparisons.
The .45 ACP and .45 Colt are currently at Sandy Garrett's getting the barrels tweaked and sights milled to correct zero.
The .455 and .44-40 areon the money and required no gunsmithing, so they are getting shot the most.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Great thread! It seems like the 5.5" barrel is the most common on these. Nobody deserves to own them more than you, Ed!
Is there a standard reference to correlate serial #'s to year of manufacture you are using?
Attached Files
Great thread! It seems like the 5.5" barrel is the most common on these. Nobody deserves to own them more than you, Ed!
Is there a standard reference to correlate serial #'s to year of manufacture you are using?
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
I watched this 1923 vintage New Service 7 1/2" 38 w.c.f. sit on a table at several gun shows and the price kept dropping. A few weeks ago I saw it again only now the ivory grips had been replaced with after market plastic ones and the price reduced some more. I looked it over pretty carefully and was delighted with the condition of the bore. I did some horse trading and a little boot and the seller threw in the ivory grips too.
I have only shot it about 20 rounds but this one seems to shoot right to the tip of the front sight at 20 yards with 5.5 grains of Trail Boss and the Magma 180 sized to .402". I pin gauged the throats at .401" with a skosh of wiggle but the .402" pin won't quite enter the uncleaned cylinder.
Attached Files
As FYI, Tom at Accurate cut me the 36-168H which gives a bit lighter Keith style bullet to adjust point of impact a bit lower than the 36-175H in fixed sight guns. This one has the same .395" nose and crimp to meplat length as the 36-175H, but has a reduced .312" seating depth, reducing its overall length to .707" by duplicating the base to crimp configuration of 36-190T. Due to the reduced seating depth this would also be a good heavier bullet to use in the .38 S&W and I plan to do that in my S&W Victory Model 5" with 2.5 grains of Bullseye for probably about 700 fps. The 168-grain weight in wheelweights is a suitable substitute for the modern Lyman #358429 in most published loads.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
I finally found and bought a grip adapter for my New Service 45 Colt described earlier in this thread. with excitement I removed the black grips and attached the Pachmayr 4 S grip adapter, but it didn't clip on the frame. The plastic adapter mates to the frame fairly well, but the front of the frame, front strap, is too wide for the metal clip to clamp on one side of the frame and on the other side of the front strap the clip sits on the flat frame piece that connects the front strap to the back strap. Even if the clip was flat I'd be concerned that the gap it would make between the front strap and the grip might stress the grip when it was replaced and tightened. the grips fit very snuggle along the front strap. The box lists New Service and 4 S is on the adapter. Have any of you dealt with this? 
I appreciate suggestions that would allow me to use this grip adapter.
Attached Files
I have several 4S adapters on a like number of New Service revolvers and never encountered this problem.
I would be inclined to remove the steel clip and make a new, flat-sided one from sheet copper or brass. Re attach with the original screw and perhaps add a small washer. Bend carefully to fit your frame so that the flats are neatly sandwiched between the grip panels. I have several older Tylers which are made that way and they work fine.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
45 Colt (USN), 45 Colt Target, 357 Magnum (ex NYSP), 38 Special (ex 455 UK bringback), 44 Russian/Special (3) one factory nickel, 2 target models.
2 44 Russian/Special targets.
Attached Files
I have a lovely 38-40 nickle plated with some vintage stag handles. Had a problem with the cylinder pin but I think I worked that out. Haven't been serious looking for a load but I have had the pleasure of putting a few handloads through it. I am rebuilding a 1889 marlin in 38 40 and then I'll get serious.
Mike
Attached Files
Just scored 2 more !!!!!. A commercial 455 and a 44-40.
Attached Files
Just curious - does a 1917 colt DA 45 fit into this thread? Was digging in the safe and got out Colt and S&W 1917's and took them to the range for some Smoke time If not too far astray will put together some info and possibly some pics if I can remember how The Colt looks just like all the above including my own 38-40 above (towards the top), made in 1919 from Colt site, excellent condition with horrible bore and throats, looks like sandpaper, shot some 45 ACP and AR loads with 250 gr Speer and H&G 22 cast - sights required about half of front sight above the frame with these loads. Took no data just plinking - need something to make a project of.
Will pursue, if someone so desires.
Al
Attached Files
M1917 Colt DA .45 absolutely! Lots of them out there, great guns. Please post results with yours.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Does someone have a picture of the lanyard issued or used with these New Service models that have lanyard rings? Was there instruction manual to the military users of these models that includes information about the use of the lanyard?
thanks,
Bruce
Attached Files
British practice is described in detail in Tracey’s Revolver Shooting in War (1916)
While pistol lanyards were uniform items of the era, Tracy considered them a liability in the trenches. “If used, it should only be employed at night or if mounted and NEVER attached around the neck, but around the arm, either under the epaulettes or centrally on the Sam Browne belt, allowing for the pistol to be employed with either hand.” Otherwise the lanyard had the potential to be snagged on equipment or debris. Indeed, an acquaintance of Tracy was strangled with a pistol lanyard, and another lost his life when the lanyard was caught by the revolver hammer, causing a misfire, so that he was bayonetted.
US Marine Corps Landing Party Manual of the WW1 period described use of a pistol lanyard during small boat operations to prevent loss, following the well-established practice of the British Royal Navy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In use from the Victorian Era through WW2, these are the heavy brown woven cord Handgun Lanyards originally designed for the Cavalry but were soon adopted by most Officers of all Ranks from about 1875 onwards. Intended to be worn, around the shoulder, these 38" woven Cord lanyards attached to rings on the base of a handgun via a sturdy sprung brass clasp. Most often seen worn with the Sam Browne Belt Ensemble, these have many times saved a Cavalry man who dropped his Pistol while in Combat. Comes complete with sliding toggle, a perfect addition to any period collection.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Thanks Ed - will pursue. The more I dig into this subject the more questions I have. During cleaning and taking measurements on 1917's came up with about 0.451 bore and 0.455-0.456 throats, started looking at some others and found the same relationships on a S&W 25-2 and a 45 ACP convertible cylinder for 45 Colt NMBH (both 80's manufacture). Any info as to how this has made it this far into this century from the old hollow base 45 Colt configuration would be appreciated.
Also noted that the only revolvers above that would fire loose 45 ACP rounds were the S&W 1917 and the BH cylinder. The Colt 1917 doesn't appear that it will fire loose rounds, only moon clips or AR, which I find interesting.
Is there a quick way to navigate to the latest post upon entering this topic?
Attached Files
Is there a quick way to navigate to the latest post upon entering this topic?
Underneath the title line, there is the last poster. Click just to the left of the name "Latest by"
Attached Files
Just scored another long barrel one in 44-40. Selling my NYSP 357 and UK proofed 38 Special.
Here's the 44-40.
Attached Files
Info on Colt DA 45 (ACP) on hand Since 1957 -58 as follows: Bore 0.444-0.445, Groove 0.451-0.452, chambers 0.455-0.456, Cylinder pass 0.007, hold 0.008. Bore and chambers are frosted from early use with corrosive ammo, otherwise in excellent condition with a tight action and reasonably heavy trigger pull.
On hand is a partial box of Remington 45 Auto Rim cartridges with 230 grain lead bullets, probably from 1962 -63. Also recorded below is data from Federal ball Lot FC 1950 FC 61 headstamp.
Some velocities recorded at 10 feet are as follows:
Colt DA Army Colt 1911A1 from 1943 US
RP 45 AR 230 gr Lot E185 709 FPS
FC 61 ball 748 FPS 767 FPS
Speer 250 SWC/5.5 Unique 669 FPS
0.454 dia LLA LD #11
H&G 22 250 gr RNFP 0.454 sized 812 FPS
/lubed/5.5 grs HP 38 LD #8
25 yard accuracy results were miserable due to my own handicaps and are not included - will try again another day. My best accuracy was with a Ruger convertible 45 acp with a scope on it, so I have hope for better results.
XXX - Please note, That after researching loads in multiple sources, that the 250 H&G mold load with 5.5 grs of HP 38 exceeds most recent loading recommendations - it was the only reference I could find for a 250 gr bullet in what I had on hand under max recommendations, the 1998 Midway 45 ACP Loadmap pamphlet. The load did fine in all the revolvers I tried S&W 1917, 25-2, Colt 1917 and Ruger NMBH 45 convertible which did record 878 fps from a 7 1/2 inch barrel. Also note that all the above have chamber throats of 0.455" or above. Am currently revisiting this load and will probably reserve the remaining rounds for the NMBH. The 250 grain bullets were the only ones on hand that came close to fitting the 0.455 chambers and loaded rounds chambered satisfactorily.
Attached Files
Good info which agrees with my experience. Thanks for posting.
I just enjoyed re-reading this entire thread and it would fill a Fouling Shot issue by itself.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Scored another. 1917 in 45 ACP. Wrong grips, new ones on order from Altamont.
1/2 moon clips arrived yesterday.
Attached Files
Good catch. Are the walnut grips with Colt medallions reproductions or post-1938 originals? They are correct for my 1939 .357. Would you be willing to part with them?
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Ed, I think you should sell me the 357 as it's one of 2 holes in my collection (Other is 38-40)
Attached Files
I have a nickel plated Colt NS in .45 Colt with 7.5 inch barrel. It has only had a couple boxes put through it since 1930s. In the late 1930s the sheriff of a Kansas county in which my grandfather lived traded it to my GF for his Smith .38-44. The sheriff had used the Colt to kill a desperado the month before and no longer wanted to carry it (no idea if reason was it had been used to kill, or because it took him a half hour to clear the holster). The pistol had remained unfired since my GF got it. My father did not shoot it. I, not being superstitious of "the evil gun", took it to our Sheriff's dept qualification (back while I was still Asst. PA). Even though I had to endure substantial kidding about its long barrel leaving powder burns on the targets, it shot just fine. That was either late 90s or very early 2000s. The pistol was cleaned and put away -- occasionally examined and oiled since then. Believe I used same light loads that I keep for the recoil shy in a Ruger Blackhawk: mould is an Ideal 454424 255 gr SWC and "around" 7 gr unique.
Attached Files
Should you wish to sell it, please contact me. Thanks.
Attached Files
Scored a 90% 7” 38-40. Will post pics when it arrives. Now to find that 357 to have all chambering.
Attached Files
Wheel Weights, Would be interesting to hear your S/N range on 1917 and whether or not a loose ACP round will fire in the revolver. Mine (above Colt S/N 178xxx, US # 28xxx) won't fire a round w/o moon clips, case head goes flush with rear face of cylinder. Just a curious point of info on my end. Various research mentions the chambering change for Colt but doesn't specify when it happened.
Al
Attached Files
Early M1917 Colt .45 ACP revolvers used leftover .455 Eley cylinders from the British order, simply facing them off at the rear to provide clip clearance. Mine SN 1618XX (DOM 1918) is one of those. Once the supply of .455 cylinders were used up, cylinders for the remainder of US Army orders were purpose-built for .45 ACP having the appropriate stop surface in the chambers to that loose .45 ACP ammunition could be fired without using the clips. Revolvers which were refurbed for WW2 service commonly had cylinders replaced, and often barrels as well. WW2 replacement barrels were a heavier contour as used on commercial New Service revolvers in the 1930s.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
My two latest additions. A 38-40 7" with, oddly, target grips and a WW One 45 ACP w/new grips.
Attached Files
Duke, (timidly raising his hand in the back of the class room)," I do Mr. Harris sir." A 1930 38 w.c.f. I am having a bit of a "thing" about that cartridge, so I have a 1910 Model 92 rifle, a 1910 SAA, the New Service, and a Uberti SAA clone. I have a Magma 40-180-rnfp mould and I have loaded 5.5 grains of Trail Boss and I am comfortable shooting that in all of them. I'd like to standardize at 8.0 grains of Unique, but I'm a little uncertain about the 1st Gen SAA. I size to .402". Sadly the New Service shoots 6" low at 20 yards and I'm afraid I'll go to hell if I file the front sight to raise the point of impact.
I'd file the sight now and worry about hell later
I own a beater in ACP/ Auto Rim that has timing issues and problems with primer flow locking the cylinder that I may fix one of these days . I once owned one in .45 Colt but never got comfortable with the grip so it went down the road in a trade . I much prefer the N frame Smith grip to the New Service . As far as what I fed the .45 Colt , I really don't remember the exact load but can guarantee that it came straight out of the load section in the last few pages of Sixguns . The little shooting I have done with the other one was Starline AR cases , CCI LP, 5gr Red Dot and a generic 200gr boxed SWC that I bought at basically scrap lead price.I have the Keith Lyman mold for AR that I will use in it if I ever get it sorted .
Grumpy Old Man With A Gun......Do Not Touch .
Attached Files
This is a NOE bullet I use in both my 10mm and 38-40.
Lubed with BLL and tumbled in dry lube.
They shoot as good as jacketed given my ancient eyes and coarse sights.
Attached Files
The New Service sure seems to be well like by a few who want to keep these old guns running. I found a 45 colt to add at a price I was willing to pay. Like others the cylinder throats are large. A 0.455 bullet lube slips through with just a light push. Likely really measures 0.456 or more. The only mold I have that cast large enough is 45-264D. It will just fit the cylinder length if seated to the top of the crimp grove. I have plenty of Bullseye and 6.0 to 6.5 grains appears to be the preferred range. But I have never found the 45 colt to be finicky about what powder works. This Colt was made n 1929. One question if someone knows. Did Colt begin hardening cylinders of all of its revolver line at the same time after WW1 and what year was that?
Keith DVM
Attached Files
Colt changed the alloy of their cylinders and frames at the time they went from "Army Special" to "Official Police" which my history books say was 1927. However, I have nothing on the actual process Colt used, as they were very QT about their manufacturing processes. Colt usually made thousands of parts ahead due to machine time required. I have a Colt 32/20 Army Special barrel in a documented 1931 frame and cylindered revolver. Colt never threw away a screw or spring in their history.
Attached Files
And another that is odd. They accepted my offer this AM !!!
https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail.asp?lid=61025557
USMC one w/7.5" bbl, BUT it letters !
But the plot thickens. Not a 1909 USMC model so ------ Awaiting old letter from consignor that may shed light.
Thinking it may have been engraved to memoralize something.
Attached Files
Finally plugged the last hole (cartridge wise) in CNS collection
The only Magnum they ever made.
Attached Files
And then this one showed up 455 target sold in London. Still trying to track down name on top strap.
Attached Files
My lastest, a 1933 4-inch .38 Special. Cylinder gap is 0.005" pass / 0.006" hold. Zero end-shake with empty brass in chambers.
Timing correct, bright, crisp bore. Weighs 41 ounces. Can't wait to get it to the range. Factory letter has been ordered.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
-1-1.jpg?width=20 "Slugflinger")
i am not much of a revolver guy ... but that 4 inch just looks * right * ...
Attached Files
My vote is for the 5", but what do I know?
Attached Files
I must resist. I must resist. I MUST RESIST!
I decided many years ago that I “needed” a Colt New Service in 45 Colt or better yet 44 Spl. At my advanced age, I’m deciding I need to get rid of some of my firearms, not add more. Then again, if I tripped over a New Service, or better yet a New Service Target Model, I would have to admit that “resistance is futile…” 
Fortunately, they’re pretty rare around here, so the temptation doesn’t arise very often. 
Froggie
Attached Files
I took a partial .455 Webley NS and made a 44 special out of it. Lots of work, but the best shooting .44 I ever owned (sold all my Rugers and Smiths).
Attached Files
My Colt new service has been around the block. It went across the pond in .455 Eley during World war one. Then it came back over the pond to be converted to .45 long colt. Then someone gave it the easy to spot in the woods nickel finish and coarse checkered grips. Somewhere along the line somebody who knew what they were doing gave it a terrific trigger job. That along with a great bore and tight action make it a testament to what a revolver should be. one of my favorites to take to the range.
Attached Files
Got lucky on this GunBroker auction. A 1922 Colt New Service .44-40 with 4-1/2" barrel and lanyard loop. Zero end shake with empty brass in chambers. Cylinder gap 0.008 pass/0.009 hold. Timing and indexing correct, with crisp trigger pulls and smooth DA. Cylinder throats .429 and uniform, barrel groove diameter slugs .427".
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Not too shabby for 100 years old. Simple elegance.
Cheers from New Zealand
Attached Files
Finally had a chance to shoot the gun. WRA 200-grain softpoint in balloon-head cases with Sharpshooter powder gave 824 fps and groups in ten and X-ring of a B8 repair center at 25 yards with 6:00 hold. My handloads with Accurate 43-230G and 18.5 grains of IMR4227 are 830 fps and slightly higher point of impact, but all high in ten ring. Adequate packing pistol.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
You are ready to team up with Indiana Jones now!
These were the end of the "western" era revolvers and I'm glad you got a nice one to play with.
Attached Files
It is time to dust this thread off with my Official Carhartt Barn Coat Pocket Blaster. Expanded bullet is Speer 250-grain Deep Curl in Starline case with 4 grains of Bullseye, 630 fps, three gallon water jugs.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
Sorry, unable to edit from my Android phone or add pictures. Imagine a 1915 Canadian marked New Service .455 with 2-3/4" barrel.
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
Attached Files
I can now join in this thread. Today after work I picked up this Colt Shooting Master in .38 Special. It was built in 1932. Colt made 3,500 Shooting Masters starting in 1931, with 2,500 of them chambered for .38. The exterior has some finish wear but the chambers and bore are near new.
With my S&W M-1905, 4th Change Target for scale.
I had a Pachmayr 6M grip adapter which may not be the correct size, but it's close enough to work.
A couple questions:
1. Should the grips be serial numbered? I removed them and they have no numbers inside. I think they may be replacements.
2. Would hex head screws be original for the front sight? Allen screws were invented around 1909 - 1910 so it's possible they are original, or they could be replacements.
--- Dave Markowitz
Attached Files
Very nice Revolver!!
1. Shooting Masters have a different grip profile than New Service, and those look correct. I've never seen the serial number in a Colt made after 1900.
2. All the Colts with adjustable front sights I have seen have straight slot screws.
FWIW
Attached Files
S&W did that often, but their polishing and finishing process made a lot more alliances for buffing than Colt did. I have a 1910's Army Special and a 1928 Official Police and the stock panels are within thousandths of an inch of each other.
Attached Files
Tonight I got the Shooting Master to the range for the first time. I had 38 rounds left in this box of .38 Special, Hornady 148 grain HBWCs on top of 3.0 grains of Bullseye. The Colt is a BIG gun so I shot 2 handed, and single action since I have small hands. Yeah, I yanked one. My POA was at 6:00 on the bull.
The SA pull is about 3 lbs. (that's a SWAG) with no takeup, creep, and almost no over travel. It's the proverbial "glass rod" trigger.
Aside from the midrange loads I also ran a couple cylinders of 178 grain Keiths on top of 5.3 grains of Unique, which is a .38 +P load. They were accurate as well. (The Keith bullet is the Matt's Bullets version of the 358429, sized to .359. It's proven to be very accurate in my other revolvers.)
For comparison I also brought my 4" S&W Model 28-2, which wears a set of Herrett's Shooting Stars. It's more comfortable to shoot with heavy loads due to the stocks and the DA pull is much better.
Anyway, I'm very happy with the Colt and look forward to shooting it at longer range.
--- Dave Markowitz
Attached Files
wimilkman
30
pat i.
18
Tom Acheson
15
Aaron
12
BRatigan
10
MarkinEllensburg
9
Ed Harris
8
mashburn
6
porthos
5
MP1886
4
.jpg?width=50&crop=0,0,50,50)
