Appearing in the Jan/Feb 2008 #191 issue of the Fouling Shot, this article was written by CBA member Ric Bowman.
There really isn’t a reason that the .45 Auto Rim gets so much ink used on it for shooting articles. Other than the US Army Model 1917’s, there were a lot less of them made than .44 Specials or .45 Colts. The other .44/.45’s have higher velocity potentials and with heavier bullets. And both are better “hunting” calibers than the AR. When and where I grew up the rich guys who worked in the steel mills owned .44 Specials. The Colt fanciers had .45’s, usually in the New Service model, unless they were cowboy fans who had SAA’s. The guys that worked in the paper mills and machine shops had 1917’s. If you want-ed a handgun with power, the GI surplus .45 ACP in the 1917 was the only thing you could afford to shoot as reloading “ca’tridges” was unknown. The only thing they reloaded were the “squirrel rifles” and “hog guns” from down home in the hills.
My father and older brother were both S&W 1917 fans, so I grew up shooting 1917’s with GI hardball. The target was usually a tin can set in front of a stump on our Ohio farm. Once in awhile, I could hit the can. Pistols came and went, as my father was a typical southerner who traded cows, pigs, chickens, knives and guns with equal enthusiasm. However, there was almost always at least one Colt or S&W Model 1917 around the farm as long as WWII surplus ammo was available.
One of the first guns I traded for after I got out of the Army was a S&W 1917 with little finish, a dark bore but a tight action. I put so many hardball rounds through it that by 1975 the only rifling in the barrel was the last inch under the front sight.
Gallery Bullseye pistol shooting was popular in my new home in Washington State. Like most shooters of the day, I shot the 22-caliber stage with a Ruger and both Centerfire Stage and .45 Stage with a Model 1911 ”Softball” gun. As I became a better pistol shot, the 1917 became an embarrassment with its 4-inch groups at 50 feet during the after practice plinking sessions. I found a new pre-WWII commercial barrel and installed it with a 0.002” barrel/cylinder gap, 11-degree forcing cone and a crown exactly square with the bore.
It would now shoot my softball loads well. These were Lyman’s 452460 bullets cast from wheel weights, a 200-grain SWC, and sized to 0.452 inches. They were loaded over 4.0 grains of Bullseye and CCI large pistol primers in GI match brass. The bullets were seated just deep enough into the case to allow the Colt 1911 to lock up. A round dropped into the chamber would exactly reach the end of the barrel hood and the headspace was controlled with the bullet just slightly engraving the lands with the head against the slide. The front shoulder of the bullet was just outside the case. They were fine plinking loads in the S&W 1917 so now all I needed was a full power field load.
There really isn’t a reason that the .45 Auto Rim gets so much ink used on it for shooting articles. Other than the US Army Model 1917’s, there were a lot less of them made than .44 Specials or .45 Colts. The other .44/.45’s have higher velocity potentials and with heavier bullets. And both are better “hunting” calibers than the AR. When and where I grew up the rich guys who worked in the steel mills owned .44 Specials. The Colt fanciers had .45’s, usually in the New Service model, unless they were cowboy fans who had SAA’s. The guys that worked in the paper mills and machine shops had 1917’s. If you want-ed a handgun with power, the GI surplus .45 ACP in the 1917 was the only thing you could afford to shoot as reloading “ca’tridges” was unknown. The only thing they reloaded were the “squirrel rifles” and “hog guns” from down home in the hills.
My father and older brother were both S&W 1917 fans, so I grew up shooting 1917’s with GI hardball. The target was usually a tin can set in front of a stump on our Ohio farm. Once in awhile, I could hit the can. Pistols came and went, as my father was a typical southerner who traded cows, pigs, chickens, knives and guns with equal enthusiasm. However, there was almost always at least one Colt or S&W Model 1917 around the farm as long as WWII surplus ammo was available.
One of the first guns I traded for after I got out of the Army was a S&W 1917 with little finish, a dark bore but a tight action. I put so many hardball rounds through it that by 1975 the only rifling in the barrel was the last inch under the front sight.
Gallery Bullseye pistol shooting was popular in my new home in Washington State. Like most shooters of the day, I shot the 22-caliber stage with a Ruger and both Centerfire Stage and .45 Stage with a Model 1911 ”Softball” gun. As I became a better pistol shot, the 1917 became an embarrassment with its 4-inch groups at 50 feet during the after practice plinking sessions. I found a new pre-WWII commercial barrel and installed it with a 0.002” barrel/cylinder gap, 11-degree forcing cone and a crown exactly square with the bore.
It would now shoot my softball loads well. These were Lyman’s 452460 bullets cast from wheel weights, a 200-grain SWC, and sized to 0.452 inches. They were loaded over 4.0 grains of Bullseye and CCI large pistol primers in GI match brass. The bullets were seated just deep enough into the case to allow the Colt 1911 to lock up. A round dropped into the chamber would exactly reach the end of the barrel hood and the headspace was controlled with the bullet just slightly engraving the lands with the head against the slide. The front shoulder of the bullet was just outside the case. They were fine plinking loads in the S&W 1917 so now all I needed was a full power field load.
After buying 50 R-P .45 Auto Rim cases and a Lyman 452423 mould, I was ready to start. However, nothing worked well. I changed alloys, powders, and primers. Four inch groups at 25 yards were the norm. The brass was starting to crack and I couldn’t find any more. I would work up a good load for the 1911, transfer it to AR brass and it would be garbage.
My “original” 1917 that I rebarreled
Must be the gun, right? I have to find a “better” one. Then came a dozen military Colt and S&W 1917’s, Brazilian Contract S&W’s, post-war commercials, Model 1955’s, etc. Most would shoot my softball loads in half-moon clips, but none with full power loads in ACP brass or AR brass. Enough! They all went down the road, except that original 1917, and I moved on to the magnums and other projects.After buying 50 R-P .45 Auto Rim cases and a Lyman 452423 mould, I was ready to start. However, nothing worked well. I changed alloys, powders, and primers. Four inch groups at 25 yards were the norm. The brass was starting to crack and I couldn’t find any more. I would work up a good load for the 1911, transfer it to AR brass and it would be garbage. Must be the gun, right?
I have to find a “better” one. Then came a dozen military Colt and S&W 1917’s, Brazilian Contract S&W’s, post-war commercials, Model 1955’s, etc. Most would shoot my softball loads in half-moon clips, but none with full power loads in ACP brass or AR brass. Enough! They all went down the road, except that original 1917, and I moved on to the magnums and other projects.
Then in 1990 I read a “grocery store gunzine” article shilling the new S&W 625 “Model of 1989” in .45 ACP. It was supposed to shoot everything great. While cruising through a local gun shop one day, I saw one of the 5-inch models. I tried to dicker on the price. “Nope! I could only get four and have sold two. That is the price.” Going back about six months later, three had been sold. The dealer told me that the last one was a hard sell. But he did have one nobody even looked at twice, a four inch model. He would sell it for $50 less than retail. It went home with me. The AR project began again. What follows are my findings for the last 15 years work.
The S&W Model 1989 and newer 625’s
The 1989’s were made on the old hand operated equipment and were of the very highest quality that S&W made since the 1950’s. The newer 625’s were made on CNC equipment and are also well made. These have cylinder throats of 0.452” and barrels of 0.451” and will shoot jacketed bullets very well. Best accuracy seems to come with long seating of the bullets. Since they don’t have to fit into a magazine, OAL is not important. This also increases powder space so that you can use top ACP loads at less pressure. One of my favorites is the Speer 200 grain HP, the “flying ashtray,” over 9.0 grains of HS-6 with the bullet seated half way between the normal crimp area and the base of the bullet. These are loaded in recent production R-P .45 AR cases without cannelure that have a solid head. However, the main purpose of the long loading is to get the parallel sides of the bullet into the throat to center the round in the chamber.
Getting lead bullets to shoot well was a problem until I did cylinder measurements and brass measurements. The crux of the problem is that all of the .45 ACP cases I could find were shorter than the minimum trim length. Without using half-moon clips the headspace was 0.065 inches with most ACP cases. This is one of the reasons there are misfires when using .45 ACP ammo and no clips. Unlike rifle cases, the whole pistol case slides back against the breech face when the cartridge fires. This leaves a space about 0.485” in diameter and 0.065” long between the end of the case and the beginning of the throat. Moreover, unlike normal revolvers that have a nice gradual taper, these have a 90-degree shelf cut into the chamber to headspace ACP cases. What I think is happening is that the lead bullet is expanding into this void, bits and pieces are being cut off and the bullet is entering the throat crooked.
Success came when I bought “.460 Rowland” marked cases from Starline. This is an ACP case that is lengthened but otherwise the same outside dimensions as the ACP. I trimmed the cases so that when placed in the cylinder I could put a 0.005” feeler gauge between the head and the standing breech, giving me just that much headspace. Now the half-moon clips just float in between the end of the cylinder and the frame, but are still used for extraction. Fired cases measure 0.454” on the inside so little sizing is required and I can shoot either soft or hard alloys. It is best to use a taper or profile crimp to insure the case is seating against the shoulder. The only issue is that as the gun gets dirty, you have to push the rounds into the cylinder so that they are fully seated. I had a custom mould made by Mountain Molds Company that casts a 230-grain bullet with a 72% flat point. With either 6.5 grains of Unique or 9.2 grains of WW571 (HS-7), it goes about 825 f.p.s. and is a good field load. My “bear killer” load is the Lyman 452454 bullet cast from half Babbitt metal and half wheel weights, 248 grains, sized 0.452 inches and has a hardness of BHN 24. This is loaded over 14.0 grains of 2400 and gives 950 f.p.s. with very good accuracy.
I have to find a “better” one. Then came a dozen military Colt and S&W 1917’s, Brazilian Contract S&W’s, post-war commercials, Model 1955’s, etc. Most would shoot my softball loads in half-moon clips, but none with full power loads in ACP brass or AR brass. Enough! They all went down the road, except that original 1917, and I moved on to the magnums and other projects.
Then in 1990 I read a “grocery store gunzine” article shilling the new S&W 625 “Model of 1989” in .45 ACP. It was supposed to shoot everything great. While cruising through a local gun shop one day, I saw one of the 5-inch models. I tried to dicker on the price. “Nope! I could only get four and have sold two. That is the price.” Going back about six months later, three had been sold. The dealer told me that the last one was a hard sell. But he did have one nobody even looked at twice, a four inch model. He would sell it for $50 less than retail. It went home with me. The AR project began again. What follows are my findings for the last 15 years work.
The S&W Model 1989 and newer 625’s
The 1989’s were made on the old hand operated equipment and were of the very highest quality that S&W made since the 1950’s. The newer 625’s were made on CNC equipment and are also well made. These have cylinder throats of 0.452” and barrels of 0.451” and will shoot jacketed bullets very well. Best accuracy seems to come with long seating of the bullets. Since they don’t have to fit into a magazine, OAL is not important. This also increases powder space so that you can use top ACP loads at less pressure. One of my favorites is the Speer 200 grain HP, the “flying ashtray,” over 9.0 grains of HS-6 with the bullet seated half way between the normal crimp area and the base of the bullet. These are loaded in recent production R-P .45 AR cases without cannelure that have a solid head. However, the main purpose of the long loading is to get the parallel sides of the bullet into the throat to center the round in the chamber.
Getting lead bullets to shoot well was a problem until I did cylinder measurements and brass measurements. The crux of the problem is that all of the .45 ACP cases I could find were shorter than the minimum trim length. Without using half-moon clips the headspace was 0.065 inches with most ACP cases. This is one of the reasons there are misfires when using .45 ACP ammo and no clips. Unlike rifle cases, the whole pistol case slides back against the breech face when the cartridge fires. This leaves a space about 0.485” in diameter and 0.065” long between the end of the case and the beginning of the throat. Moreover, unlike normal revolvers that have a nice gradual taper, these have a 90-degree shelf cut into the chamber to headspace ACP cases. What I think is happening is that the lead bullet is expanding into this void, bits and pieces are being cut off and the bullet is entering the throat crooked.
Success came when I bought “.460 Rowland” marked cases from Starline. This is an ACP case that is lengthened but otherwise the same outside dimensions as the ACP. I trimmed the cases so that when placed in the cylinder I could put a 0.005” feeler gauge between the head and the standing breech, giving me just that much headspace. Now the half-moon clips just float in between the end of the cylinder and the frame, but are still used for extraction. Fired cases measure 0.454” on the inside so little sizing is required and I can shoot either soft or hard alloys. It is best to use a taper or profile crimp to insure the case is seating against the shoulder. The only issue is that as the gun gets dirty, you have to push the rounds into the cylinder so that they are fully seated. I had a custom mould made by Mountain Molds Company that casts a 230-grain bullet with a 72% flat point. With either 6.5 grains of Unique or 9.2 grains of WW571 (HS-7), it goes about 825 f.p.s. and is a good field load. My “bear killer” load is the Lyman 452454 bullet cast from half Babbitt metal and half wheel weights, 248 grains, sized 0.452 inches and has a hardness of BHN 24. This is loaded over 14.0 grains of 2400 and gives 950 f.p.s. with very good accuracy.
My use of AR brass in this revolver has been limited The problem is that AR brass is even shorter than ACP brass. So far, I have been able to use my old “soft ball” load, but seat the bullet so that the front driving band is inside the throat. If other bullets are cast from hard alloy and seated out so that a parallel section of the bullet is in the throat, most work OK. But there are flyers you will have to contend with.
(L-R) Lyman 452460 in my softball ACP load; shortened .460 Rowland case with 452460 seated long; Lyman 454424 seated into a solid head .45 AR case (a M-625 only load.
S&W Model 1950’s and 1955’s
I now measure cylinders of all of these that I can find, or that people will let me measure. Some have throats as large as 0.459” and as small as 0.454”. Headspace varies from 0.030” to 0.070” depending upon what brass you are using as a guide. I don’t own one, so haven’t had much shooting experience with them, but the couple of friends who have let me borrow theirs have the same issues that I did, some loads work well and some not so well.
Colt Model 1917 and New Service Models
All of these I have measured have had uniform throats from 0.454” to 0.455”. This must be from their .45 Colt specification that uses this size throat. The Colt 1917 has a reputation of being more accurate than the S&W’s and that is probably the reason. The one that I borrowed had a lot less headspace with GI brass and would shoot well with AR brass as long as you used hard alloy and loaded 0.454” sized bullets long.
S&W Model 1917 and between the war commercials
Cylinder throats of these are uniformly 0.457” -0.459” on all the specimens I could find. Until I bought a S&W Second Model Hand Ejector .455 caliber made for the Canadian Government in WWI, I could never understand why the cylinders were this size. This measurement was the size for the .455 British round that used a 0.450” bullet with a hollow base. This ammo works fine in the Second Model. This bullet also works OK in the 1917’s because the bullet will obdurate up to fill the throat. Jacketed bullets seem to work fine as long as they are loaded long and you keep the pressures down. Remember that S&W didn’t heat treat large frame revolvers until 1927 and these cylinders are made out of the same steel used to make the nails you find at the hardware store. Unless you make special cases for them, both the ACP and AR work as long as you use low pressure loads.
Two bullets that have worked the best for my S&W 1917 have been Lyman’s # 454309 and #454424, both .45 Colt bullets. I cast these from 30/1 alloy that I use for black powder bullets. The bullets are not sized, but lubed in Lee’s Liquid Alox tumble lube. From my moulds, they both cast about 0.455”. If you are not a caster, you have several options. One is to buy Remington or Winchester swaged lead bullets for the .45 Colt that are of very soft alloy. Another is Speer’s swaged 250-grain SWC part #4683. Avoid like the plague all of those hard cast com-mercial bullets. They are too small, too hard, shoot poorly in 1917’s and lead the cylinder and barrel as nothing else will.
.Powder choice is easy; you can use any of the flake shotgun powders, or modern pistol powders, that you can find load data for. Start at the minimum load and work up in lots of six rounds in 0.1-grain increments. Your maximum is 10% less than the top listed load for the ACP. I have always been able to find a load from 3.7 to 4.0 grains of Bullseye, 4.0 to 4.5 grains of Unique or 4.6 to 5.4 grains of SR7625 that would shoot to the correct elevation.
Is there a reason for the AR to still exist? Who still uses or would chose a 90 year old design? There are “pockets” of AR users around the US. One is the Appalachian Mountain folk and another is the Canadian border area of western Montana, Idaho and eastern Washington. There is one little gun shop in Eastern Washington that carries AR brass and they tell me that they sell a lot of them, as in 5000 plus cases a year. It works fine with light loads of 200 grain cast bullets at 600 f.p.s. That load has mild recoil and is accurate enough for 50 yard shooting. Commercial ball ammo works fine for store bought rounds. A 250 grain cast bullet at 950 f.p.s. will solve any “wolf at the door” problem you will ever have. It seems to still be popular because it is just enough power in a handy sized using pistol without all the flash and roar of the magnums.
I now measure cylinders of all of these that I can find, or that people will let me measure. Some have throats as large as 0.459” and as small as 0.454”. Headspace varies from 0.030” to 0.070” depending upon what brass you are using as a guide. I don’t own one, so haven’t had much shooting experience with them, but the couple of friends who have let me borrow theirs have the same issues that I did, some loads work well and some not so well.
Colt Model 1917 and New Service Models
All of these I have measured have had uniform throats from 0.454” to 0.455”. This must be from their .45 Colt specification that uses this size throat. The Colt 1917 has a reputation of being more accurate than the S&W’s and that is probably the reason. The one that I borrowed had a lot less headspace with GI brass and would shoot well with AR brass as long as you used hard alloy and loaded 0.454” sized bullets long.
S&W Model 1917 and between the war commercials
Cylinder throats of these are uniformly 0.457” -0.459” on all the specimens I could find. Until I bought a S&W Second Model Hand Ejector .455 caliber made for the Canadian Government in WWI, I could never understand why the cylinders were this size. This measurement was the size for the .455 British round that used a 0.450” bullet with a hollow base. This ammo works fine in the Second Model. This bullet also works OK in the 1917’s because the bullet will obdurate up to fill the throat. Jacketed bullets seem to work fine as long as they are loaded long and you keep the pressures down. Remember that S&W didn’t heat treat large frame revolvers until 1927 and these cylinders are made out of the same steel used to make the nails you find at the hardware store. Unless you make special cases for them, both the ACP and AR work as long as you use low pressure loads.
Two bullets that have worked the best for my S&W 1917 have been Lyman’s # 454309 and #454424, both .45 Colt bullets. I cast these from 30/1 alloy that I use for black powder bullets. The bullets are not sized, but lubed in Lee’s Liquid Alox tumble lube. From my moulds, they both cast about 0.455”. If you are not a caster, you have several options. One is to buy Remington or Winchester swaged lead bullets for the .45 Colt that are of very soft alloy. Another is Speer’s swaged 250-grain SWC part #4683. Avoid like the plague all of those hard cast com-mercial bullets. They are too small, too hard, shoot poorly in 1917’s and lead the cylinder and barrel as nothing else will.
.Powder choice is easy; you can use any of the flake shotgun powders, or modern pistol powders, that you can find load data for. Start at the minimum load and work up in lots of six rounds in 0.1-grain increments. Your maximum is 10% less than the top listed load for the ACP. I have always been able to find a load from 3.7 to 4.0 grains of Bullseye, 4.0 to 4.5 grains of Unique or 4.6 to 5.4 grains of SR7625 that would shoot to the correct elevation.
Is there a reason for the AR to still exist? Who still uses or would chose a 90 year old design? There are “pockets” of AR users around the US. One is the Appalachian Mountain folk and another is the Canadian border area of western Montana, Idaho and eastern Washington. There is one little gun shop in Eastern Washington that carries AR brass and they tell me that they sell a lot of them, as in 5000 plus cases a year. It works fine with light loads of 200 grain cast bullets at 600 f.p.s. That load has mild recoil and is accurate enough for 50 yard shooting. Commercial ball ammo works fine for store bought rounds. A 250 grain cast bullet at 950 f.p.s. will solve any “wolf at the door” problem you will ever have. It seems to still be popular because it is just enough power in a handy sized using pistol without all the flash and roar of the magnums.