Excerpt from The Fouling Shot #271 May-June 2021.
Loading .32 S&W (the short one) for a Top-Break
Loading .32 S&W (the short one) for a Top-Break
QUESTION: I have an 1893 manufacture date S&W 5-shot top U! break .32 DA 4th Model. I have a Lyman 311252 double cavity mould and several fast-burning pistol powders and would like to actually start shooting it. I know to keep the loads down in the starting range. I just want to have fun with it. Revolver is tight and in very good mechanical condition. What is a safe load with the Ideal #311252?
ANSWER: A year or so ago I searched local gunshops regarding c"'- any 32 S&W cartridges they had laying around. I ended up with samples of 32 S&W of various makes and vintages. My purpose for these acquisitions was to pressure test them. I did so and had interesting results.
The test firearm was a Contender With a 10" barrel chambered in 32 H&R Magnum and a strain gauge affixed over the chamber at the prescribed SAAMI location for pressure measurement. The gauge was connected to the Oehler M43 and its attendant software in a laptop. I was able to measure the pressure and muzzle velocity of the assorted 32 S&W cartridges.
As a reference: 32 H&R Magnum, Federal 32 H&R 85 grain LSWC factory ammunition ran 1217 fps (987 fps out of 6 ½" Ruger SS) at 18,200 psi. The Lee TL 90 grain SWC over 3.2 grains of Bullseye ran 1128 fps at 16,500 psi
32 S&W Long: Federal factory WCs; 12,000 psi Lee TL 90 grain SWC over 2.8 grains Bullseye ran 1060 fps at 16,800 psi (880 fps out of my M30 S&W with 3" barrel) Lee TL 90 grain SWC over 3.2 grains Bullseye ran 1165 fps at 19,300 psi. 98 grain cast SWC over 2.5 grains Bullseye ran 944 fps at 15,000 psi. 98 grain cast SWC over 4 grains Unique ran 1101 at 19,000 psi
The results for 32 S&W; factory ammunition:
Winchester Western, 86 grain Lubaloy LRN; 786fps at 18,900 psi.
Winchester W-W; 727fps at 15,300 psi
Old Winchester [WRA]; 729 fps at 16,300 psi
Remington [R-P]; 676 fps at 14,200 psi
Federal [FC] 86 grain FMJRN; 833 fps at 17,900 fps
OldWinchester[WRA] 86grain FMJRN; 780fpsat 14,000 psi
The average pressures for the 32 S&W ran from a low of 14,000 psi to 18,900 psi. The 32 S&W is presumed to be a lower pressure cartridge than the 32 S&W Long because it is the shorter cartridge. That presumption is probably based off similar cartridges such as the 38 SPL/357 Mag, the 44 SPL/44 Mag, etc. Thus that presumption has led to the common belief that using the 32 S&W in the old H&R and Iver Johnson top break 32 S&W Long chambered revolvers was "safer" because of the lower psi of the 32 S&W cartridge. We see from the actual psi of numerous 32 S&W factory loads that is not the case, at least with factoryloaded smokeless powder ammunition. I found some WRA 32 S&Ws loaded with 88 grain bullets over what appeared to be 7 grains of 4fg BP. Out of 10 shots pressure tested I only 2 were high enough to give a pressure reading, both being 10,800 psi. I'm not saying 32 S&W ammunition is unsafe in 32 S&W Long chambered top break revolvers. I'm just saying there's not as much difference, in pressure, between the two cartridges as is commonly thought.
I'd suggest for your purposes, using the 311252 cast bullet, a small dipper can be made out of a 22 short or LR case and filed down to hold 1.0 grains of Bullseye and use that. The pressure will be comparable or less than the original and latest production 32 S&W smokeless loads. A recent test of some latest R-P 32 S&W (Green Box) showed it was loaded with 1.0 grains of flake smokeless (very similar in appearance to 700X, not say it was just saying it appeared similar) powder under the 88 grain lead bullet. That gave a psi of 13,300. My suggested load should be similar.
ANSWER: A year or so ago I searched local gunshops regarding c"'- any 32 S&W cartridges they had laying around. I ended up with samples of 32 S&W of various makes and vintages. My purpose for these acquisitions was to pressure test them. I did so and had interesting results.
The test firearm was a Contender With a 10" barrel chambered in 32 H&R Magnum and a strain gauge affixed over the chamber at the prescribed SAAMI location for pressure measurement. The gauge was connected to the Oehler M43 and its attendant software in a laptop. I was able to measure the pressure and muzzle velocity of the assorted 32 S&W cartridges.
As a reference: 32 H&R Magnum, Federal 32 H&R 85 grain LSWC factory ammunition ran 1217 fps (987 fps out of 6 ½" Ruger SS) at 18,200 psi. The Lee TL 90 grain SWC over 3.2 grains of Bullseye ran 1128 fps at 16,500 psi
32 S&W Long: Federal factory WCs; 12,000 psi Lee TL 90 grain SWC over 2.8 grains Bullseye ran 1060 fps at 16,800 psi (880 fps out of my M30 S&W with 3" barrel) Lee TL 90 grain SWC over 3.2 grains Bullseye ran 1165 fps at 19,300 psi. 98 grain cast SWC over 2.5 grains Bullseye ran 944 fps at 15,000 psi. 98 grain cast SWC over 4 grains Unique ran 1101 at 19,000 psi
The results for 32 S&W; factory ammunition:
Winchester Western, 86 grain Lubaloy LRN; 786fps at 18,900 psi.
Winchester W-W; 727fps at 15,300 psi
Old Winchester [WRA]; 729 fps at 16,300 psi
Remington [R-P]; 676 fps at 14,200 psi
Federal [FC] 86 grain FMJRN; 833 fps at 17,900 fps
OldWinchester[WRA] 86grain FMJRN; 780fpsat 14,000 psi
The average pressures for the 32 S&W ran from a low of 14,000 psi to 18,900 psi. The 32 S&W is presumed to be a lower pressure cartridge than the 32 S&W Long because it is the shorter cartridge. That presumption is probably based off similar cartridges such as the 38 SPL/357 Mag, the 44 SPL/44 Mag, etc. Thus that presumption has led to the common belief that using the 32 S&W in the old H&R and Iver Johnson top break 32 S&W Long chambered revolvers was "safer" because of the lower psi of the 32 S&W cartridge. We see from the actual psi of numerous 32 S&W factory loads that is not the case, at least with factoryloaded smokeless powder ammunition. I found some WRA 32 S&Ws loaded with 88 grain bullets over what appeared to be 7 grains of 4fg BP. Out of 10 shots pressure tested I only 2 were high enough to give a pressure reading, both being 10,800 psi. I'm not saying 32 S&W ammunition is unsafe in 32 S&W Long chambered top break revolvers. I'm just saying there's not as much difference, in pressure, between the two cartridges as is commonly thought.
I'd suggest for your purposes, using the 311252 cast bullet, a small dipper can be made out of a 22 short or LR case and filed down to hold 1.0 grains of Bullseye and use that. The pressure will be comparable or less than the original and latest production 32 S&W smokeless loads. A recent test of some latest R-P 32 S&W (Green Box) showed it was loaded with 1.0 grains of flake smokeless (very similar in appearance to 700X, not say it was just saying it appeared similar) powder under the 88 grain lead bullet. That gave a psi of 13,300. My suggested load should be similar.
According to my older Lyman manuals, the 311252 was designed for the 32 Colt and 32 Savage auto pistols. The 87 grain 311259 was designed for use with the 32 S&W. In such a small capacity case seating depth is critical to pressure generated. The 311252 seated with both lube grooves covered will be seated much deeper than the factory 88 grain or the 311259 bullet would be. Thus pressures with the same load may very well be higher with the lighter weight bullet seated deeper. With the 311252 bullet I'd suggest seating so the case mouth is just on top of the middle drive band, maybe just to the front edge. No crimp is needed, just straighten out the case mouth flare.
Larry Gibson
Larry Gibson