Perfect powder?

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Last Post 14 January 2016

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joeb33050 posted this 22 January 2014

We now have brass and bullets for grandson Sam's Colombian Mauser 30-06. I want to get him started reloading with a Lee Loader.I can't keep up with all the new powders. So, is there a not-black powder that will work with cast 170-200 grain bullets in 30-06 that fills the case enough so that double charges are improbable = more than half full? He'll be 16 soon, so safety is paramount. Thanks;joe b.

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RicinYakima posted this 22 January 2014

For lead bullets only, consider 38.0 to 40.0 grains H4831 with Winchester Magnum LR primers. This is position sensitive in cold weather, but meets your criteria. Never use this with jacketed bullets, as it is very easy to stick a bullet in the throat with just the primer force and then have a bore obstruction. As the slow powder continues to burn, it will exceed the strength of the case and rifle. HTH, Ric

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tturner53 posted this 22 January 2014

I just got a pound of new IMR4831. My WWII surplus powder supply has about runned out. Any idea of the velocity on that 38-40 gr load? I'd like to hit maybe 2100/2200 fps for a GP field load.

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RicinYakima posted this 22 January 2014

Hodgdon #24 lists 180 grain GC 38.0 at 1550 f/s and 41.0 at 2022 f/s. No pressures listed. HTH, Ric

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 22 January 2014

regardless of powder type, i use a ” dipstick ” to stick in each charged case in the loading block ... shows not only overcharges but UNDERCHARGES. 50 cases takes about 15 seconds. i have never had a double charge, but somehow have skipped a case ( g ) .

also, i like 4895 for medium power loads, but still use a dipstick. with 4831 anything less than 90% of full load can give poor ignition ... even with mag primers.

and yeah i like those lee loaders ..and nutcracker sets .. maybe that's why i still prefer my B&M visible ..

ken

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mckg posted this 23 January 2014

Since it's for a grandson, I'm going to point you towards Trail Boss.

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail%20Boss%20Reduced%20Loads%20R&P.pdf

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onondaga posted this 23 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3>joeb33050

Hodgdon's 60% rule for H4895 works very well for youth/ reduced cast loads for 30-06. Any 60% or + is definitely more than 1/2 case full and double charges would always over flow all over the place and definitely be safely noticed by a beginning reloader.

32 grains H4895 for the 30-06 and lower have the asteric warning in the 2nd Edition, Lee Modern Reloading because they are less than 1/2 case full and a double charge is possible.

The same Lee book (p.153) says that the 32 grains of H4895 pushes a 168 gr cast bullet 2120 fps @ 30,800 psi. Personally for a deer load, I use 34.2 gr H4895 with a 170 gr Lyman #2 alloy cast FNGC bullet in 30-06 that clocks 2155 fps from a 1903A3 24” barrel in 30-06. It is a mild recoil load my 16 year old grandson likes to shoot at the range.

A link to Hodgdon's 60% rule for youth/reduced recoil loads if you would like to review it: http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf>http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf It mentions the long popularity of H4895 for cast bullet rifle loads.

By the way Joe, note in the instructions for the Lee Loader kits that are used by hand with no press that the Lee Loader is not recommended for cast bullets as no case mouth expander is included and the bullet seater does not work well at all with cast bullets. A single stage press would be a better choice for the boy.

Gary

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joeb33050 posted this 23 January 2014

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=3>joeb33050

Gary Gary;I've loaded roughly 3.76 zillion cartridges with cast bullets and Lee Loaders. The 308Win Lee Loader instructions say “...When loading cast bullets, it's necessary to expand the case mouth in order to accept the cast bullet without shaving lead. A Flaring Tool can be purchased to quickly do this job."I use a pair of long nose pliers (and other things) or “M” dies to bell case mouths.Seating cast bullets hasn't been a problem yet.

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jeff houck posted this 23 January 2014

What is Hodgdon's 60% rule and which powders does it pertains to? Do you by chance have an address where I can find this advice? Thanks, Jeff Houck

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onondaga posted this 23 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=506>Jeff Houck

The Hodgdon 60% rule applies to H4895.

Just click on the hyperlink text in reply#7 . That is directly from Hodgdon. Here it is again:

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf>http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

Sorry you missed that! It is NOT new news at all and has been around from Hodgdon for about as long as H4895! Some sample loads are listed on that page, but Hodgdon says you can use the 60% rule for any caliber and bullet weight that H4895 is recommended at all. I use it with cast bullets from .223 Rem to .458 Win Mag with H4895. I have never had any ignition problems following this rule and have had decent to excellent accuracy without any exception. Hodgdon's only warning is not to reduce H4895 more than 10% below than the 60% rule. Loads less than 50% density with H4895 can have ignition irregularity. 1/2 a case-full or more when appropriate as recommended will not have ignition problems.

Gary

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jeff houck posted this 23 January 2014

Thanks for the link, as I read on down the replies I found the earlier posting that listed the address. Boy did I feel embarrassed. Thanks, Jeff Houck

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onondaga posted this 23 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=506>Jeff Houck....I hope you use it! it works great!

Gary

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jeff houck posted this 23 January 2014

4895 is a great cast bullet powder. I'm just out of it right now. Jeff

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onondaga posted this 23 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=506>Jeff Houck Corn and malt are heavy, they will raise pressure, my favorite very light filler is BPI Original but expensive. Very cheap is Poly-Fil Batting from sewing or hobby stores in about 3/8” thickness. it is usually rolled or folded in packages in the stores and sold as crib or mattress padding. I cut it to 1” strips then cut strips to pieces 10% longer than the airspace, gently roll then and toothpick poke it into my 30-06 light loads gently over the powder. It fills the space and holds the powder against the primer. More than 1 grain and you cut it wrong! it looks like this:

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/filler.jpg.html>

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jeff houck posted this 24 January 2014

Thanks for tip. I've used it in the past and worked very well but was SO SLOW to load. I want a filler that will go through a powder measure so I can charge a block of 100 cases in 2-3 minutes. I'm loading in high volume for several different matches a month. I'm a high volume competitive shooter who adores the Dillon machines. I'm thinking puff-lon or the like would fill the bill just fine. Jeff

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onondaga posted this 24 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=506>Jeff Houck

Puf-lon is not inert, it is organic dietary fiber with about 1-2% dry lubricant like mica or even graphite would work. Unflavored dietary fiber can be had at pharmacies or pet/livestock feed supply stores. You can easily make your own Puf-lon look or act alike filler but it will, just like the original, attract moisture and affect your loads.

If you are fishing for a filler that is inexpensive and runs through a charge dumper well, try some PRPSB filler, it is tiny spheres of inert plastic and runs fine through a powder measure. It is about twice as heavy as my favorite filler BPI Original that will also run through a measure, that expensive BPI that is still less than half the price of Puf-lon.

The PRPSB is reasonably priced: http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=PRE&Category_Code=BUFFER>http://www.precisionreloading.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&StoreCode=PRE&CategoryCode=BUFFER

I have used this in 30-06, .500 S&W and .458 WinMag reduced loads. Add the weight of the filler used to the bullet weight for a total projectile weight in your load and safety calculations. The seller also claims PRPSB cleans bores when it is used as a ballistic filler. I'm skeptical of that claim. PRPSB is not compressible like the fluffier and lighter BPI Original I like, but PRPSB is a usable, inert ballistic filler that meters well and will not absorb moisture. Warning: don't spill PRPSB on a hard floor, it is a seriously slippery hazard if you do.

Gary

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jeff houck posted this 24 January 2014

Thanks for your posting - it's perfect! Telling me what the original base material of puff-lon is made from is great! I had homed in on the PRSSB and was going to try it until I saw that they wanted $15.70 shipping. Seems frightfully high. I'm going to try and find a bulk supplier for the PRSSB material. Thanks for the help. Jeff

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jeff houck posted this 24 January 2014

Gary - HDPE - High Density Polyethylene - I knew there was something lurking in the back of my mind. This is what we use as a wad check in our Black Powder target rifles. It's inert in our bores so leaves no deposits to contend with. Does anyone know of a source for HDPE formed into 1mm or 2mm balls for use as a filler? Jeff Houck

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onondaga posted this 25 January 2014

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=506>Jeff Houck A source for HDPE is the white HDPE kitchen cutting boards in Walmart or Dollar Stores. HDPE doesn't specifically have to be spherical particles to be a good filler. It can be ground up and works fine too. I have a Dental bench motor with a Jacobs chuck and I put a coarse white large, 1/2 x 6” wheel on and grind the Walmart cutting boards into filler that I collect into a small clean shop vac while grinding. Primitive/cheap but works for me.....no shipping! If you have the tools it is easy. I have also done this with a 36- 40 grit belt on my table sander.

As far as that Puff-lon goes, I have used cheap instant coffee with mica and it runs through my Lyman #55 measure just as well as Puff-lon.

I don't use fillers much anymore and try to select powders that fill the case better. My main use for fillers now is with the plain base bullets I shoot in .500 S&W rifle. The BPI Original Filler acts as a quazi gas check for the 340 gr plain base bullet I shoot at 1700 fps in .500 S&W. The load I shoot will function without the BPI but the groups are 5” @ 50 yards with no filler and 1” @50 yards with the BPI filler. That is a very clear example and choice for me for the plain base bullet and justifies the cost of the BPI for my bear hunting loads. The BPI is something I stock up on when I am ordering something else from MidwayUSA. It is costly but seriously extends the load pressure range for #2 alloy plain base hunting bullets in my .500 S&W rifle and dramatically improves accuracy for me.

Gary

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jeff houck posted this 25 January 2014

Gary - grinding your own HDPE is a very practical solution and most ingenious! The resulting strands wouldn't want to go through a powder measure though. The smallest HDPE pellets I've found so far are 1/10". I think these would be to coarse and allow the powder granules to infiltrate the HDPE column. I may just breakdown and buy 4 or 5 bottles of shotgun buffer to beat the shipping charge. That would probably give me a lifetime supply.

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jeff houck posted this 25 January 2014

Geeze Gary, outside of being exceptionally stupid and forgetful at times, sometimes the solution is just quietly staring me in the face. Corn cob polishing media should work just fine. DOOOOOOOOOOH! I'll give it a try in the morning and find out. Jeff

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 January 2014

speaking of hdpe, i still have a bunch of UHDPE 3-5 ” long 1” dia. falloffs. this is slightly denser than hdpe, but still gooey y stringy to cut. anyway, makes neat little gadgets if you have a lathe. hey, practice shotgun slugs .. plumbing gaskets .. self locking nuts ! wow .. i will fill an air postal box for $6 shipped to 48. pm me pleaseken

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onondaga posted this 25 January 2014

Jeff, if you get strands when grinding HDPE, it is your error. Pushing too hard/feeding too fast will cause heat stranding of HDPE, You can correct for stranding by controlling the work method and you can control granule size by abrasive grit size and make a very uniform meter-able filler. Freezing the HDPE before grinding will also lower heat stranding.

Powder and filler will mingle if your filler volume is insufficient and not slightly compressed along with the powder when seating your bullets. The easiest ballistic filler to control this, for me, is BPI Original. 106-110% compressed loads with the total of powder and filler will not mingle even with a vibrator trying to do so.

The less viable fillers are generally less compressible than BPI Original or really good home made ground HDPE. None the less, a lack of sufficient compression is where the mingling hoax comes from. Skill easily overcomes that hoax.

Jeff, I am working on a PM to send you about grinding HDPE. I'd make a video but this needs to be done outdoors of my apartment and it is 2 degrees today. We have taken too much of this post from Joe. Watch your PMs

Gary

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afmelo posted this 05 December 2015

This is my first post in this forum, and I take the opportunity to say Hello to all the members. I read through it for “The Load” and appreciate the deep educated discussion on the various aspects of reloading reduced loads. I too am looking for a reduced load for my Portuguese “Mauser Vergueiro” from 1904, rebarrelled by the Portuguese Arsenal on 1939 to 8x57 Mauser. It groups very well with the Portuguese army ammunition, but has a very strong recoil for my ageing shoulder”¦ So I decided to use this military ammo as a source for my reduced loads: extracted the bullet with the inertia bullet puller, saved the cartridges with the original berdan primer, saved the original powder for a future occasion, tumbled the 196 gr. FMJ-BT original bullets with Moly, and am now in the final stage of loading the reduced charge of powder. The issue now is that American powders are very difficult to find in Portugal, and Red Dot simply is not sold. I have access to fast Vectam powders, like A1 and Ba10, I use to load my pistol and revolver ammo. I have read somewhere that A1 is equivalent to Herco. Can anybody help advising a possible light load for the 8x57 Mauser using Vectan A1 and 196gr. ? Should I try the 13gr, rule? Many thanks FMJ-BT

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RicinYakima posted this 06 December 2015

Welcome to the forum! I'm sorry, but I have no data or experience with Vectam powders, but maybe someone else can help you. Ric

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 06 December 2015

i just googled for vectan a1 and found several sources of information .

apparently vectan is a high quality product .

hope this helps.

ken

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Mike H posted this 06 December 2015

According to the ADI Handloaders Guide,Vectan A1 is equivalent to Herco and Winchester WSF. They rate Vectan AS as equivalent to Clays and Red Dot,the only other vectan powder in that area is Ba6 mentioned as equivalent to Alliant Steel.I have a Vergurio like yours,I pulled the bullets in my military ammo and reloaded it with four grains less of the original powder,this made it bearable. I have shot it with RCBS gas check 170 grain lead bullets and 12.5 grains of Shotgun Ballistite.

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OU812 posted this 06 December 2015

The Vectan reloading guide states that AO and Ba9 work well with cast bullets. The guide shows one cast bullet load for 308 Winchester, but none for 8x57 caliber. I have used Vectan AO in my 223 (cast bullets) with very good results. It is a bulky square flake powder that measures easily and accurately.

Loading data: http://www.grafs.com/uploads/technical-resource-pdf-file/20.pdf

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afmelo posted this 06 December 2015

Many thanks to your helpful reply. I believe the best route will be to load in steps of 0.5 gr. from 10 gr, up 13 gr and see what the velocity is, for safety, before trying with the cast loads as there is no date for this specific powder. As to casts may I ask what is the best mold? All the best

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OU812 posted this 06 December 2015

A long bore riding bullet should work good if bore ride section is fitted .001 oversize to the bore (you need to measure bore). Size the bands .0005 smaller than freebore.

Lee molds are pretty easy to cast with. NOE makes a good long bore rider for 8mm. Accurate molds can make you anything non pointed.

http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/rifle-bullet-molds/>http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/rifle-bullet-molds/ http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=736>http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/productinfo.php?cPath=32&productsid=736

...

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mckg posted this 06 December 2015

A1 is closer to Unique, and has often been listed right before it (faster) by its maker, SNPE. A0 would be the Herco-like powder.

A0 has been listed with a few cast loads for a few years, but I don't see why A1 couldn't be used (it actually is, according to French Forums).

You don't need to reach a 13 grains of Red Dot equivalent with cast bullets; I think a better reference to reduced loads is that article: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://home.comcast.net/~gavinsw/guns/castbulletmilitaryrifle.pdf (click on the 20th of october to download)

Now since you intend to shoot your FMJ's first, Ed Harris will probably be able to help.

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delmarskid1 posted this 07 December 2015

I use this mold for my 8x57 mauser. Lyman 2-Cavity Bullet Mold #323470 8mm (325 Diameter) 165 Grain Round Nose Gas Check Lyman molds are not inexpensive but they have given me persistent quality for many years. This bullet is lighter than some and doesn't have much recoil. It has a lot of lubricant grooves which makes it a bit more difficult to cast than others.

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mckg posted this 07 December 2015

One more thought afmelo: if the military bullets you just pulled have a steel core or jacket, I would not use them. On top of increasing barrel wear they would have a higher drag and would be more likely to get stuck in it.

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afmelo posted this 07 December 2015

"... if the military bullets you just pulled have a steel core or jacket, I would not use them...”

Thanks mckg! In fact the bullets are 198 gr. FMJ - coper jacket with lead core of very good quality, manufactured during the 70's and packed in sealed boxes! They manufactured this ammo until the early 90's, when the plant has been deactivated, and is still sold at high price for target shooting (ordnance). This is the link of the principal seller in Portugal ”€œ (sorry it's in Portuguese, but you can see the prices in euros)! http://www.qualifire.pt/novidadesdetail.php?aID=290 So I ma saving the combined cartridge/bullet ”€œ lubricated with Moly ”€œ and just trying various charges of Vectan A1. AS previously mentioned I have loaded charges from 8.5 gr. Up to 13 gr. In intervals of 0.5 gr. My point is whether any of the lower and higher limits is too low or too high, and I have no experience with these loads to decide where to start safely. Perhaps from the mid-scale going up and down slowly! Any info on this idea? Thanks a lot.

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mckg posted this 08 December 2015

Here are two versions of one of Ed's articles, mentioning the 8x57; the first one tells you how to get a stuck bullet out of your bore :):

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-479034.html http://www.russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14419

Regarding the low end, with cast bullets, 7grs of Bullseye or Red Dot and 8grs of Unique give similar speeds (*); but I would like Ed to clarify the acceptable bullet weight as the first text says 150 grains.

*: http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

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admiral posted this 08 December 2015

Jeff Houck wrote: Thanks for your posting - it's perfect! Telling me what the original base material of puff-lon is made from is great! I had homed in on the PRSSB and was going to try it until I saw that they wanted $15.70 shipping. Seems frightfully high. I'm going to try and find a bulk supplier for the PRSSB material. Thanks for the help. JeffI use PR spherical buffer all the time. I also never order online from them for the reason you state: high shipping fees. In their print catalog they had a note about calling if you thought shipping was high. I always call in my order and they will go the extra mile to find the cheapest route for shipping. I have many times had the shipping price cut 40%. I buy PSB in the 10# bag when I order shotshell components.

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afmelo posted this 08 December 2015

Please forgive my ignorance but I have not understood whether these reduced loads in large cartridges such as 30.06 an 8x57 should or not be used with a filler over the powder.I do not find PRSSB here and wonder whether, if advisable to use a filler, what could I use as substitute filler. My 8x57 Mauser cartridges with a reduced load of 10gr. Vectan A1 (similar to Unique as I understand), will fill only about 1/4 of the total cartridge volume or even less! I thought it would be better to fill the extra volume with something but frankly don't know what! Can you help? Thanks in advance.

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Mike H posted this 08 December 2015

afmelo wrote: Please forgive my ignorance but I have not understood whether these reduced loads in large cartridges such as 30.06 an 8x57 should or not be used with a filler over the powder.I do not find PRSSB here and wonder whether, if advisable to use a filler, what could I use as substitute filler. My 8x57 Mauser cartridges with a reduced load of 10gr. Vectan A1 (similar to Unique as I understand), will fill only about 1/4 of the total cartridge volume or even less! I thought it would be better to fill the extra volume with something but frankly don't know what! Can you help? Thanks in advance.There is no need for fillers with the faster shotgun/pistol powders.

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afmelo posted this 08 December 2015

Thanks Mike. I have in fact read so much contradictory information on this topic in the various internet fora that I was really confused on what to do!

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RicinYakima posted this 09 December 2015

AFmelo,

The answer is to stop looking at the internet and read books.

Ric

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afmelo posted this 09 December 2015

Ric, Absolutely right! And I have a very sizeable bibliotheca”¦ However I have been a pistol shooter for +40 years and only recently moved to benchrest. First rimfire BR50, having been systematically in the three first places in all categories in the National Championship this year. Now trying central fire as well, I have a 6mm PPC for 100, 200 and 300 meters and the 8x57 Mauser to shoot open sights BR and ordnance 100, 200 and 300 meters. This is the first time I reload for rifles and looked for a reduced load for the Mauser, to save my shoulder”¦ I used to hunt wild boars with a .300 W magnum but never reloaded for it, so no experience with rifle reloading at all. But talking about squib loads I have reloaded lots of them for .38 Special in the past ”€œ usually a very light squib using only the primer in brass with enlarged primer vent-hole and beeswax bullets”¦ To shoot at 5 meters distance was the sport!!! This is, I am sure, a very old solution I have used to shoot in the garage some 40 years ago! I also loaded hundreds of light loads for .32 and .38 with DuPont 700X, for practice”¦ But, as I said, never did it for large capacity cartridge rifles and this is why instead of going back to the already “dusty” books I decided to try a “shortcut” through the internet”¦ And I was happy enough to find this list, at the end of the day! Now, coming back to the books I am checking the powders and comparing the available data. I simply wanted to be sure that I was not making any basic stupid mistake! Now preparing the loads and the chronograph to try them on the range as soon as the time and weather permits”¦ All the best

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mckg posted this 09 December 2015

afmelo, can you get Tubal 2000? This is the go-to powder for rifle calibers reduced loads with jacketed bullets in the latest manual written by SNPE's field tester.

1.6 grams/24.7 grains with a Speer 2285 200gr for 450m/s (1476fps)

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afmelo posted this 09 December 2015

HI mckg - in fact I have access to Tubal 2000 from time to time. Thanks for the information and I will try to find the data should I be able to access the latest manual written by SNPE's field tester. Is that public?

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mckg posted this 10 December 2015

Guide pratique du rechargement, by Alain F. Gheerbrant.

It was available in paperback with, I think, a CD copy included. The author, who was working on an updated version, was selling the CD on his own too. He passed away early this year and that supply dried up too.

I was very disappointed not to find any Cast Bullet load for rifle in it, outside of the “Cowboy” calibers. He did mention A0 and Tu2000 for casts on French Forums.

In that regard, the previous Manuel de rechargement, from Rene Malfatti, was better (can be found, at ridiculous prices).

Nobelsport has been known to answer requests for loads so you can try to contact them.

gmdr.com has some loads with Vectan pistol powders in rifles; you can compare them to more common US products.

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afmelo posted this 10 December 2015

Thanks mckg I speak French as well and gave a look into the french language fora.Indeed Alan Gheerbrant manual seems to be impossible to find! There were some links to a PDF copy but not working anylonger... I will look into Spanish and Italian fora, as well, and will try Nobelsport directly. This is very curious, I notice now that although being European I allways looked for American info for relaoding and not to European sources! Even my books, with the exception of some French books on black powder, are American! I guess is the practical direct approach, and problem solving attitude, that really attracts me!

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mckg posted this 13 December 2015

I don't think you get much of a choice in Europe with native powders.

When I used these, I bought a recent “Malfatti” and ended up looking at Bullseye and Unique data, specially when it came to the A series (at the time they were considered as shotgun powders). The French market was a (state owned) SNPE monopoly, not a very fertile ground for competition. Eventually I caught an excellent article in Cibles from the same author, covering the fast A's and Ba's in common pistol calibers.

I just remembered that site, which used to be free, and has data for cast bullets and some European powders: http://web.archive.org/web/20040603231455/http://www.bordingl.com/ricarica1.htm

H&N: http://www.lhs-germany.de/uploads/media/HNLaborierungsdaten2010.pdf

And Malfatti wrote an article for Cibles in November 98, about subsonic loads. You have an abstract on page 2 here: http://www.tirmaillyforum.com/mildot/viewtopic.php?p=409464

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afmelo posted this 13 December 2015

Many thanks.I think I now have the necessary information for an educated experience!Will report in due course .All the best

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afmelo posted this 10 January 2016

Hi, The classic old military rifles are usually a joy to shoot, provided the ammo is not too strong for my ageing shoulder! I currently have a 1896 Steyr 6,5x53R, a Vergueiro Mauser 1904 in 8x57, and a Mosin Nagan 7,62x54R PU Sniper, from Tula 1943. What seems to happen is that the European military ammo is stronger then the US commercial ammo for the usual military calibers, and in this aspect, for the 8mm Mauser, Portuguese FNM ammo and the Yugoslavian surplus have very strong recoil! So parting from the available good quality Portuguese FNM ammo from the 70's, which has the following characteristics: FMJ 198 gr bullet, berdan non corrosive primer, 45.5 gr of a non disclosed single base powder in back flakes, speed around 2.500 fps I dismantled the cartridges with an inertia bullet hammer from Lyman and saved the components. Then I took two approaches to reduced and light loads: (i) Reduced loads - using the original components, reassembled the cartridges only reducing the powder to various weights between 36 gr and 40 gr. The best result was in the region of 38 gr with average speeds of 1920 fps ”€œ 520 mps. Good groups and mild recoil. (ii) Light loads - using the original components except the powder, and lubricated the FMJ bullets with Molly powder. Best groups: Powder Vectan A1 ”€œ 11,5 gr speeds - 1211/1213/1204/1207/1194 fps, average ”€œ 365 mps Powder Vectan A1 ”€œ 12 gr Speeds - 1273/1272/1281/1267/1269 - Average - 387 mps Powder Vectan A1 ”€œ 12,5 gr Speeds - 1299/1307/1305/1303/1309 - Average - 397 mps The recoil is similar to stronger .22 rimfire ammo. Also tried some subsonic charges with this powder, but very poor accuracy. For instance with 8,5 gr the speeds in 5 shots varied a lot: 790/796/896/848/915 fps and dispersed through the all target!!! Just one final note: all charges were weighted one by one in a Lyman Gen. 5 powder system, to be assured of its exact correction. The difference in speeds might be due to the small volume occupied by the powder in the large cartridge and therefore different ignition. Next time will reload with cast bullets as soon as my Lyman Loverin molds shall arrive!

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afmelo posted this 10 January 2016

I just found another European powder - the LOVEX. It is used by some of our ISSF shooters to reload the .308, using the double base D073.6. Info here: http://www.explosia.cz/en/streliviny/download/reloadingEN.pdf Seems to be good for a lot of calibers!

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CBA Member

joeb33050 posted this 10 January 2016

Sam and his mother talked about all the killing, it bothered him a lot. He's given up the shooting and reloading, the guns etc are on the way to the dump, or Riley's.