45-70 multi ball loads

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  • Last Post 11 February 2014
Gunner220 posted this 06 February 2014

I used the search tool trying to gain some loading data for the 45-70 using multiple round balls but no info was found. Rifle will be a Marlin Cowboy, round balls will be lead .457 {a little small I know but I'm not looking for a target load} used in the Ruger Old Army. Will use an Ox Yoke wad over the powder, probably Unique. Up to 10 grains with 2 balls and 7 or 8 with 3 balls. A roll crimp will be used on the top most ball. I'm sure it's been done by lots of folks, including the Army back in the day.

Just looking for advice, tips, pitfalls, or hell no don't do this...... I'm bored!

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 06 February 2014

I've done 3 balls in a .375 Win. 

They group well.

Weigh them.  That will give you a good starting point for the load.

Some folks put a bit of lube between them.

 

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mckg posted this 06 February 2014

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Gunner220 posted this 06 February 2014

Thanks guys. Mckg I read the article you linked and was curious as to how he takes a .457 round ball and “bumps"it to .459. Any thoughts on how you take something smaller and make it bigger and damn if I didn't leave my ass hanging out on that one!

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mckg posted this 06 February 2014

It should be the bumping up article:

http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/HowTo/default.html>http://www.castpics.net/subsite2/HowTo/default.html

It's a little hard to find stuff on their site; I usually google “castpics” and what I'm looking for... like “castpics multi ball loads” :(.

I regularly beagle some of my molds; it's worth a try.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 06 February 2014

Gunner220 wrote: Thanks guys. Mckg I read the article you linked and was curious as to how he takes a .457 round ball and “bumps"it to .459. Any thoughts on how you take something smaller and make it bigger and damn if I didn't leave my ass hanging out on that one!  

I put the ball, sprue up, into a sizer (H&I die of lube-sizer) of the desired diameter; then with a large-flat nose punch just bump it a bit.  It does go oval with cylindrical sides.  The sprue up or down helps to align them in the case.

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delmarskid1 posted this 06 February 2014

I have out three of the .457” balls that you mention in the 45-70 case. I didn't bump up the balls at all and got a 3” spread at 25 yards. At 50 yards all three would be on a 12” by 12” paper. It was a lot of fun and would make a nasty defense load.

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Gunner220 posted this 07 February 2014

delmarskid1 wrote: I have out three of the .457” balls that you mention in the 45-70 case. I didn't bump up the balls at all and got a 3” spread at 25 yards. At 50 yards all three would be on a 12” by 12” paper. It was a lot of fun and would make a nasty defense load

Powder charge??

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delmarskid1 posted this 07 February 2014

I don't remember the charge. I do remember that I added up the weight of the balls and used trapdoor springfield data and unique. This was about twenty years ago.

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Gunner220 posted this 08 February 2014

THinking about 3 balls and 24 or 25 grains of 5744. Lyman cast bullet manual shows a 450 gr bullet starting at 25grs of same powder. The only difference is I am going to take up a lot more case space.

Maybe I should back down 10% to 20 grains or so. Havent't used a ton of 5744. Does anybody think that light a charge will cause issues or shall I stick to my original educated guess with 8 grs of Unique.

Asking for Opinions. Thanks.

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delmarskid1 posted this 08 February 2014

Case capacity gets to be an issue. For myself, I would drop a charge that I liked in the case and eyeball to see if I had enough room. I looked at my old load book and it looks like I used 12g of unique. My rifle was built on a Siamese Mauser action. My aged Lyman cast manual listed 12 of Unique as a starting load. The firearm used was a marlin 1895. Any plans for lube?

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Gunner220 posted this 08 February 2014

"lube” is gonna be ox yoke wonder wads between balls and over powder. Still figuring out my starting load.

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delmarskid1 posted this 09 February 2014

I put the balls on top of each other. My thinking was that the slamming into each other would for-shorten then and make them fatter. To lube I ran a bit around the case mouth after pushing down each ball. The next would shove it down. The Ox-yoke wads sound like a good idea.

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Ed Harris posted this 10 February 2014

A trapdoor Springfield charge for the total weight of the balls should be OK. Three .457 balls would weigh about 440 grains. You don't need to worry about bumping them up, because they will upset upon discharge. I would use a card wad over the powder, and lubricated felt wads such as Ox Yoke between the balls. 14 grains of Unique is a fairly standard Trap Door charge, but I would start at 8-10 and see how it goes, or about 20 grs. of 5744. I would not be inclined to increase the load beyond Trapdoor charges, because you are removing all the air space which increases load density and pressure. In a strong rifle like a Marlin this should not be an issue, but it is prudent to start low and see how well the powder burns and whether the load shoots well.

Quit fussing when the load starts working, but let us know what you end up with. Pictures PLEASE!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Harp posted this 10 February 2014

In J. S. Wolf's Loading Cartridges for the original 45-70 Springfield Rifle he discribes the loading procedures for the guard load you are trying to load. He uses 40 grains of FFFG and lubed with Lees Alox. 

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Gunner220 posted this 11 February 2014

Thanks all for your input. Supposed to get 8-10 inches of snow Wed into Thur so will build some loads then with 8-9grs of Unique.. Should have my crono back from Pact by then as well. Three month turn around time on repair. Do you think having three balls possibly seperating between the screens will confuse the crono?

Mr. Harris I have never used a card wad in my life. Does stock thickness matter. I was just going to use a case mouth to mark some cardboard then cut it out. Sound right? Anybody?

I really appreciate everybod's input. If I can remember how to use Photobucket I will post pics.

Never mind the card wads I found some P Wads I had for the 45-70 and will use those over powder.

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