A note about Track of the Wolf customer service, not good service

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  • Last Post 21 October 2014
corerf posted this 08 March 2014

Good afternoon to most of the forum. This last week I put a small order in at Track of the Wolf. This is maybe my 3rd order in as many years. Ive always received “stuff” timely and gotten what I expected. This week marks a poorer outcome than prior orders. I have not received my goods yet, as expected. Nothing is late. All is on schedule. Pricing is closer to full retail than I'd like but since they are a shooting sports dedicated retailer, Im happy to pay more than the dirt cheapest prices for items, if delivered timely, processed timely and the company basically serves me well. Thats what I am paying for. I ordered a number of 43 Spanish specific items including the 43 SP mold from Lyman.All my items were in stock at time of order, all shipped out timely. Again I have yet to receive my order, far too early. I received on day two following the order, an email from Track regarding the marking on the mold. The mold (s), including their entire inventory, were all marked 430186, not 439186. Track sent me a notification of the part being mis-stamped minutes before they sent the package out. I had no opportunity to respond to cancel that part.  Problems start now. I received a shipping tracking email. Then I received correspondence they initiated with Lyman detailing Tracks inventory mis-label, Lyman technician indicated they were not satisfied with the mold build quality from inspection of their inventory. Wow. A known bad mold, in the retailers hands and advance communication to Lyman to verify there may likely be significant problems with the product. I let it go, what am I to do. Lyman responds with “have the client send it to us upon receipt, we will repair or replace under warranty". Thats awful nice of them. Considering I haven't even taken possession of the part! Are you all seeing where this is going?

I get a bit frustrated at this point, considering I am paying freight from Minnesota to California for a known bad part (advanced of shipping) and then paying to ship it to Lyman, and waiting a month for the entire process to turn around. Basically I get to pay for Track of the Wolf's inventory issues. Not Lyman's manufacturing issues, Track of the Wolf's issues. I sent a displeasure email, cordial, but pulling no punches. I didn't take a poke at anyone, it's not a life threatening ordeal. I did mention this will be my 3rd NIB Lyman mold return and that typical replacement time has been 30 days. I wanted to shoot that 43 Spanish next weekend and ordered parts timely. If the mold arrived damaged, so be it. If Track had been forthright and not shipped it, 20 other vendors have it in stock, some at lower prices including shipping (not considering the double ship I get to pay for the needed repairs). First received email at 2:25 PM: Track of the Wolf, Inc. 18308 Joplin Street North West Elk River, MN 55330-1773 Phone:   763-633-2500 Fax:     763-633-2550 Website: http://www.trackofthewolf.com>http://www.trackofthewolf.com Date: 3/6/2014 Dear Michael: Thank you for your telephone call, advising that your new Lyman Mold Blocks #439186 for .43 Spanish Remington are mis-marked: The blocks are stamped 430186 instead of 439186. Our existing inventory has this same stamping error. We have forwarded your inquiry to Lyman, so they can confirm whether the error is merely the stamped marking, or whether the cavity is .430” nominal diameter, an error. If you discover that you need a warranty replacement, send the mold to: Lyman Products Mr. Miles Herrick 475 Smith Street Middletown, CT 06457 [email protected] Enclose your note, with your name, U. S. Mail address, list of returned contents and your complaint. If you elect to return it to us, we must forward it to the maker, since they provide warrantee service for all parts they make.  Direct shipment is fastest. We await Lyman's response, and we are nearly certain that the only error is the marking. Glad to help, David Ripplinger

BE ADVISED, I HAVE NOT RECEIVED MY PARTS YET. HOW COULD I CALL THEM? I MADE NO SUCH CALL!!! Second Email Received same day, 2:00 PM while I am at work:

Parts Shipped, here is your tracking number xxxxxxxx Third Email Received, unprompted 3/7/2013:

-----Original Message----- From: LymanSales   Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 2:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Lyman Mold #439186 is stamped 430186 on the blocks ? David, Our Technician said it's best if he send it in.  Apparently there were a couple on the shelf and he was not happy with the quality.  Have him send it Attn: Joe and he can swap it out and get a new one out ASAP. Regards, Jane Ferretti Marketing/Export/Sales Ass't [email protected]  860-894-1325 475 Smith St. Middletown, CT 06457

MY REPLY TO LYMAN AND MR. RIPPLINGER #1:

David, While I do appreciate the watchful eye your keeping on your inventory, it really does me more of a dis-service than help me. You knew at time of packing the mold was incorrectly cut or stamped, yet you gave me just several minutes to intervene in halting the shipping. I have a life and don't sit at a computer with baited breath waiting for a problem to manifest on a simple order. Now later TOTW investigation indicates the mold is lackluster quality and mismarked. Its likely DEAD on two occasions. You did speak into the future of the situation by notifying Lyman of the problem. I appreciate that, but unlikely “JOE” will do anything except process me like all Lyman returns. I've sent two BRAND NEW molds back to Lyman over the years, got replacements a month later. Not the most timely service there. Ultimately Midway, Natchez, Midsouth- the goto companies for my reloading needs, would force the same standard Lyman return policy, but at least I'd have a 50-50 chance on a GOOD mold. On this one, I already know the item is a problem. Basically you let the cabbage rot on the dock, till you needed to make coleslaw. Then decided since it's rotten you'll just serve it rotten and give me advance notice that “MY” coleslaw will make “ME” ill and your not responsible!  Then you force feed it to me! I can't even say NO to the item. Somehow that's good service to the client. I procured the mold from you, as I was ordering several 43 Spanish specific items and figured “Ill pay full retail HERE but Im giving TOTW added business, and why shop for absolute best price for individual items. TOTW has it all and is fairly “reasonable". Had I been notified of the problem with the mold sooner, not 6 minutes before it was shipped, I'd have cancelled the mold and ordered from 4 other places that are significantly cheaper, even with separate shipping. I would still have patronized you for the rest of the items! And you'd have a happy client. Suffice to say, Im bummed Ive been “SENT” thru a debacle to get a part, rather than be told “NOT IN STOCK". I don't believe I am speaking out of turn or from an unrighteous position. BTW: David, I get to pay shipping twice on that mold. Once to my door, known defective, then to Lyman for “repair!". And I get to wait a month or longer for an item that is 4 days away from 10 other retailers. Truly, this stinks and speaks poorly of TOTW customer service. I own an electrical contracting firm here in California. I service the Rose Bowl and the UCLA campus as a sole provider for a discrete systems. If I ever handed the Rose Bowl “bad cabbage” with a note that said this is not worthy, but YOU can deal with the outcome...... Well that would end my 27 years in successful business. Thank you for the fair warning regarding the situation. Sincerely,  Mike Crain MR. RIPPLINGER'S Response, same day: Dear Michael: In business since 1878, Lyman is an “old school” company.  Solid, reliable, but not perfect, a bit old fashioned.  They are human. Lyman is in command.  They make the mold.  They provide warranty service.  We serve them and we follow their instructions. We were not aware of their error, until you alerted us.  We have one 439186 in stock.  It is identical to yours. We appreciate Lyman's customer support, and we tell them so. David Ripplinger

Track of the Wolf completely ignored all facts pertaining to their intentions to pass off bad parts to the end user for repair. My final response email 3/7/2014: David,

Please allow me to clarify a few statements you have made and to reiterate them, for your edification.

I didn't alert anyone. This is only the second email from me. The first was my displeasure email written to you. A response to roughly four consecutive emails from your company regarding a problem your shipping dept found with the Lyman mold.

Track of the Wolf emailed me that the mold was wrong. How could I have notified you regarding a mold that I have yet to receive? My “stuff” is in transit. I don't have esp. The notification came at shipping, not following my inspection.

I believe your confused as to the information trail.

Also I'm not sure who you serve, but I remember being the client. Serve was your word, not mine. Lyman is your vendor, you pay them, they serve you. Your their client waving cash in the air trying to buy their goods and services. The mold is my money being spent, not theirs, making me your client (person requesting goods and services). I am taken back that you would offer a vendor as the most important entity in a business transaction, not the client merely offering money in exchange for your goods. I could care less how long they have been in business, it doesn't make your company any less responsible or culpable or theirs any more important. Lyman, yeah, their great. Track, ah,.. Not so much. The manufacturer is not even worthy of mention in this email. In order to blame shift though, they have to be mentioned.

If in fact this is where the shooting industry is going, or has already declined to, Dear God help us all in this country survive the backwards business practices now being applied.

I am truly not sure why you have taken an email directed at Track of the Wolf and turned it into a need to defend Lyman. They buggered a part, big deal. That's ok, they ARE HUMAN.... Agreed. But you checked the part, said it was broke, shipped it after saying its broke, then notified me I get to fix it. Because “it's easier that way". Just tell me it has a sunset guarantee, that's even easier for Track of the Wolf. Why bother even reading my email, that is even better for Track. Let's find the least intrusive way for Track to sidestep notifying a client they sent a known bad part out the door and resolve the subsequent financial and material issues.

Track of the Wolf hosed me, Lyman just made a machining error.

Again, I did NOT alert you of anything. You alerted me my parts are wrong and I need to jump through a hoop to fix an issue with YOUR inventory. Inventory from your vendor, not mine. If this was a car part with a defect, I'll bet the possibility of a lawsuit following an accident would preempt this sort of response. It's just a bullet mold, won't kill me so known defective parts are ok to pass onto the client.

That is the crux of my first email. And you have yet to even offer a condolence; not restitution, just a condolence...... Toward Track of the Wolfs error. Selling and shipping known defective material and passing the problem to the end user rather than doing the right thing and forwarding your defective inventory back to Lyman for correction is a travesty. Again, I get to pay shipping on a broken part, twice! Thank you for that generosity. I wanted to send the mold all over the country on my tab. I have nothing better to spend my money on but shipping defective parts, known defective parts, in for repair for the part retailer. I'm more than happy to offer my funding for any other known defective parts you have in inventory. That will make it easier and faster for everyone here to get their brand new broken parts fixed.

I have not asked for compensatory action, merely an apology for obvious and blatant buck passing.

I have repeatedly used your words and your shipping dept. words so that you can read how truly   Heinous these statements are.

Lyman is the hero, not the villain. I'm glad your happy with their service, I'm sure I will be too.

This indeed will likely mark my last transaction with Track of the Wolf. I'm am an ASSRA member, a Cast Bullet Association dues paying member for many years and a 32 year veteran shooter. My sentiments will surely be relayed to a multitude of forums and associations. Respectfully in all cases, but also bearing full truth. It's not my job to change your business practices, it is my job to inform others when a retailer takes great latitude with the client base.  It's not malice, it's just benevolence. Others should not have to deal with such matters as I will.

God forbid Larry Potterfield ever respond to a client like this. He has set the industry standard for service and response to the shooting sports. He is a model business owner to pattern after. His unparalleled business success is evidence enough to convince any human being of how to treat a client.  Maybe read his bio.

I understand the problem with Track of the Wolf, it's relationship with Lyman and to me the client. I have been given a solution. I'll follow the way I have been given. I'm sure that in time, all issues with materials will be resolved.

In time!

Best regards

Mike Crain My bottom line is- TOTW should never have passed a problem, knowingly to a patron and forced the patron to obtain warranty repair from the manufacturer. Be advised there are other registered BBB complaints regarding Track of the Wolf passing “ADVANCE KNOWN BAD BROKEN MERCHANDISE” along to the client so the client can address the problems with the manufacturer. Case in point, an Italian repro gun, inspected prior to shipping, found bad, shipped anyway, client told to deal with Italy, not Track of the Wolf. It' seems to be a BUSINESS PRACTICE for TOTW, not a mistake. I am a small business owner. I am successful because I know who is the client and respect them as such. Their money, my goods and services. When the money changes hands, the product better be KNOWINGLY GOOD or UNKNOWINGLY BAD. NOT THE OPPOSITE. Errors occur, mistakes happen, product is mis-manufactured. you don't sell KNOWINGLY BROKEN PARTS to folks and force them to handle repairs! you just dont sell the bad part, period! I have written this thread so that the internet, which holds everything inserted into it, forever, can reflect the position Track of the Wolf has taken. If in fact you buy from TOTW, I suggest you rethink. I have given Mr. Ripplinger an opportunity to respond with an apology for the errant judgment call to send out bad merchandise. Just a phrase would suffice, “Im sorry Mr. Crain, it should not have happened". But that opportunity was passed over. What will be most hilarious is if the MOLD is MIS-MARKED but perfect!! All Track had to do was not screw the client; Just complete the required “Due Diligence” to mitigate this situation!

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StrawHat posted this 09 March 2014

When the mold arrives, please let us know what diameter the cavity is. If the cavity is incorrect, then I can see you ahve a problem. But, if it is merely mismarked, what is the big deal?

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Chargar posted this 09 March 2014

Cancel your order and ask for a refund. No need to make a “federal case” out of this deal. TOW was merely  telling you, they have some issues about what your ordered that are not yet fully resolved from the maker. I don't consider that “screwing” you.

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corerf posted this 09 March 2014

No Chargar, not a Federal case.

I believe if this were a new car, YOU would not take possession of it, it would stay at the dealership. You know the car that wont start, real pretty and shiny. Could just be out of gas, but you should tow it home and figure out whats broke. We, the dealership don't feel like it. Then bring it back and we will help you get it fixed, by email.

If it were indeed a rifle ($400-700), YOU would have gone elsewhere or waited patiently for “a good one". But those are big ticket items. This is just a measly $75.00 mold and $10 to ship, and $6.50 to ship again. Less than a hundred.... a pittance.

The issue Chargar is that TOTW, and now you, have reduced the TOTW error by a factor of the value of the item. Its a cheap problem to fix. Whats the big deal?? There are kids in other countries with no food, Ukraine is a disaster... lots of much more important, grave problems that affect all of us.

Its not a big deal financially, nor is it difficult to deliver to the USPS for transit. Its not a big deal to wait a bit longer for the correct item to arrive. Your correct, its just not a big deal.

It is a big deal to be forced into this position by a company who had the opportunity and the requirement (in good business practices) to mitigate this very minor problem and not pass the buck. Im sure it pleases you each time congress votes to spend more money that you get to pay in taxes for crap that helps three guys in Vermont.

If you have not run a business and only been a consumer, then you would indeed have no idea the weight of the minor inconvenience created. Its a reflection of the company and its directives. And the mold is the smallest issue I take, more the issue is the response from TOTW. Paraphrased: “We serve Lyman, its our job to send out bad parts and have you send them to the manufacturer for repair."

Aaah, but alas we arrive at the frog in the pot of water on the stove. Maybe you have sat in the water for a long time and become accustomed to the higher temps. I have not, nor will I. A sedentary position in life amounts to me allowing crap to run riot. So I vote, I petition, I do my part- if all fails, at least I died with my boots on. I should just sit on my ass and be happy when congress, other countries, my fellow Americans do stupid things and call them correct!

Maybe I should start selling bad parts to my clients. Let them deal with the problems. Hey, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. There me be higher margins doing business this way.

Aaah, yeah, its no big deal.

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corerf posted this 09 March 2014

Charger, one more item.

If I cancel the order and return the goods, cause Im pissed------ I eat the shipping. Thats their return policy and there are no exceptions. If it ships, you pay shipping, period.

So Mike gets to pay, then pay, or pay, .... then pay,..... or I could just pay, then ... well I pay again. HMMMM. Seems as though EITHER WAY IM OUT SHIPPING SOMETHING TWICE.

Seems reasonable to me.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 09 March 2014

I have a little used Lyman mould ,of the correct diameter fot the 43 Spanish.

Bought it a couple of years  ago from Track of the Wolf with no problems.

Now I use an LBT  four cavity mould I got from Veral Smith, a pleasure to cast with it.

I want to trade it.( the single cavity ,of course)

A box of 30 cal gas checks will do.

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corerf posted this 11 March 2014

Giorgio,

I appreciate the offer. I wish I had known of its avail before the Track order. Ill have to pass, it will just put me in deeper debt to the mold purchase with even more added shipping in returns, etc.

Mike

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gard72977 posted this 11 March 2014

I hate to hear this about TOTW. I have had good service on small orders from them. I agree that this should have never been shipped. I will be ordering a kit soon and after reading this it wont be from TOTW.

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curator posted this 13 March 2014

TOTW has the same issue as many “brokers” of products made by others. Poor quality control becomes their problem even though they did not make it and made a vary small profit handling it. Obviously your problem is with the Lyman people but since you bought it from TOTW you felt they should handle it. I tend to agree with you but Lyman is ultimately responsible and they should have to loose money on the transaction not TOTW. Personally, I do not buy ANYTHING from Lyman if I can help it. Sorry about your problems with TOTW as they are good people caught in the squeeze.

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John Grantham posted this 14 March 2014

1+

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oscarflytyer posted this 15 March 2014

I have had excellant results with TOTW, and better than others... I actually go there first now and base comparisons off what they offer... ymmv...

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curator posted this 19 March 2014

The ultimate Gypsy curse was once “may you live long enough to be dependent upon your children.” The 20 somethings are now in charge of customer service and they have no people skills or interest in making the customer happy and satisfied. This is a harbinger of things to come. Just wait for Obama-care to fully kick in!

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StrawHat posted this 29 March 2014

So, what was the outcome with this? Did the mold cast the proper diameter bullet?

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DaveInGA posted this 18 July 2014

I would refuse shipment if possible and get my credit card company involved. I would also order another mold from another company. NOE comes to mind as a quality manufacturer.

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blixem posted this 19 July 2014

Yes, inquiring minds want to know the outcome. 

I'd send it back to Track and request a refund from them. IF they refund the money then you could have saved yourself a lot of frustration and money. If not and you get a Lyman mold that drops at .439 (lucky if it drop that large) you may be stuck with a mold that won't work very well. Those .439 diameter molds are not and never were very good for the original 43 Spanish anyway since the groove diameters on many if not most or all original bores are closer to .442-3. Just saying    

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dlbarr posted this 21 October 2014

I am late to the party on this one but I'm with the OP....it would tick me off big time that they knew the mould was not what they promoted it to be. And shipped it to me any way - what they did was take a problem that was theirs and deliberately made it mine!! No class and absolutely no integrity. I have bought tons of stuff over the years from TOTW but often felt they were overpriced and KNOW that their shipping price points are built to squeeze extra EXTRA $$$ out of their customer base.  Replinger took advantage of you big time, no question. What a shame...

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