Single shot rifles aren't accurate

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  • Last Post 20 December 2007
CB posted this 20 May 2007

Clearly the SS guys are wasting their time, everyone knows that the 2 piece stock on SS rifles makes the guns inaccurate.

And, the most inaccurate ones are those where the butt stock isn't through bolted to the action-Win 85, Rem Hepburn, Stevens 44 1/2-the most accurate have the stock through bolted to the action, Ballard, Borchardt, deHaas-Miller, Martini.

Stop the nonsense and get a Savage bolt gun, get rid of those SSs.

joe brennan

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Southern Man posted this 20 December 2007

George, Do'nt be jelous. There's a price to pay.Like drought, floods,wind blows trees on fences,ect,ect,ect.we have to keep full time jobs plus the farming,because cattle go down and and feed goes up and there's not enough money left to pay the taxes.Then there's health insurance that you do'nt get from farming. You have to love the land to live off of it.It is worth it though,because on good years I buy lots of guns and accesories,and with my regular pay check I can afford to shoot 15 to 20,000 rounds a year and can shoot any time I want.But like the old saying goes there's no free lunch. Southern Man

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linoww posted this 20 December 2007

My light load with same bullet and 10 grn of unique has given me my best close range group with any handgun, .300” @ 80'.

 

Wow.

I use 8-9g of Unigue in my Ruger SBH's 44 and it also is my most accurate lower vleocity load with 200-310g bullets.I am jelous of you  farmers with all that open land to shoot on.

 

George

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Southern Man posted this 19 December 2007

George , Your right about bold statements and cast bullets getting people in trouble. I have'nt heard from Ric. I've only shot my Sharps a very little @ 100 yds,so I'm not sure how it does for long strings at short range.I have trouble hanging on to my F.A. for 10 shot groups with my heavy load.RCBS 300 SWGC @ 1730 fps.My light load with same bullet and 10 grn of unique has given me my best close range group with any handgun, .300” @ 80'.Maybe I need to try some cast bullet benchrest at close range.I just kinda burned out on BR when I started getting some .086,.073, and the like with one of my varmint rifles ,just shooting here at the house.Jacketed match bullets of course. I've been lucky to have been born and lived my whole life on the family farm where I can shoot 650 yards out the basement door, and move out in the hayfield and shoot 1025.After I got enough of the varmint rifle I had Gorddy Gritters build me a 6.5-284 on a trued up 40x action,1in8 twist 3 groove Lilja barrel, that I shoot at 1025.I think I'll try it with my Lyman 266-469 at close range. Southern Man

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linoww posted this 19 December 2007

"on three shot groups.

That sounds like a good start of a five or 10 shot shot group. its easy to get three lucky shots, but five in a row is a safer bet. A ten shot group is a good test of rifle and shooter.

.

I can't get interested in 100 yd. stuff , unles it's with traditional hand guns.

How small of groups does your Sharps shoot at 100? it's soo close it might burn holes in the paper with muzzeblast, so be careful.Try to shoot at our BR score target at 100 and it might interest you. Not too many 400's shot even with pure BR guns. I never wanted to shoot small-bore at 50 feet, then I tried it with a buddy. it wasn't as easy to shoot 10's as i had thought. Heck I shot cast at 300 yds all the time this 50' stuff would be a whiz....It weren't

I'll pick my m-83 F. A. .454. You can pick a pistol.

I have seen FA .357 revolvers shoot 5 into 1” at 100 yds before. Amazing revolvers!! I shoot with Bill Bartram a guy who won a few Silhouette Championships. He claims to have designed the 357 and .22rf FA guns. I would love to own  one of his .357 FA's!!

By the way I started this challenge because of the two piece stock thing.

 I think single shots are accurate. We just need to define accuracy. I love Ruger 1#'s and defend them, but they have their issues. I would generally pick a bolt over a SS up to 300yd for my lead shooting though. Past that range I only have opinions as I don't have a range that i can paste 500 yd targets. I shoot at smallish rocks out that far and hit them, but that tells me nothing.

 

real world whether hunting or tactical when we need to grab our gun and count on one shot, If I'm using cast bullets I'll count on my Sharps

I cant argure with that choice,but for me the bolt rifle make more sense.

I was joking about the 100 yd match with my 22-250.Making bold statements about cast accuracy can get a guy in trouble, you and Ric need to get this one resolved.

 

Geo.

 

 

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Southern Man posted this 18 December 2007

George , Thanks anyway.I like to show my money and hold it,and collect afer each shot,or pay.I do'nt mind you watching ,but I can't get interested in 100 yd. stuff , unles it's with traditional hand guns. Then 100 yds and out I can get into. Maybe we can do a revolver vs. pistol @ 100 yds for $100 on three shot groups.I'll pick my m-83 F. A. .454. You can pick a pistol. By the way I started this challenge because of the two piece stock thing. If I thought two piece stocks were inaccurate , I'd rather shoot against one at 500 as 200.What's your thoughts on that. Southern Man P.S. I have many more bolt guns than any thing else,and do think they have a slight advantage shooting for small groups on long strings.But in the real world whether hunting or tactical when we need to grab our gun and count on one shot, If I'm using cast bullets I'll count on my Sharps over the few dozen I own.

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linoww posted this 18 December 2007

Southern Man wrote: Hey guys ,My computer is doubling these post,So the accuracy I mentioned was for linoww,and my proposal was for Racin Yakima.I think.A little confused on these double post from Washington, but not joking. Southern Man

Rick Bowman can shoot,look at his results at the 2007 CBA Military Nationals.He won modified scope class and did great in modified irons as well.I bet you can too, so i want to be the spectator.I'll hold the money for a 10% fee.Then when you guys are done i'll take on the winner with my Savage 12 22-250 .22 cast loads at 100 yds<G>

 

George

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Southern Man posted this 17 December 2007

Hey guys ,My computer is doubling these post,So the accuracy I mentioned was for linoww,and my proposal was for Racin Yakima.I think.A little confused on these double post from Washington, but not joking. Southern Man

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Southern Man posted this 17 December 2007

Linoww,1.5 moa ,or so,most days @ 500 Yards. But then there's good days.$100 a shot would be just that, a shot, closes to the center of a 1000 yard IBS target.Then If were going to be fair I'd have to put a scope on the Sharps.Then maybe we could shoot the scopes ,alternate for five shots each, on your target @ 200 yards. Then take of the scopes and alternate 5 shots each , with sights at 500. Hows that sound. Southern Man

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linoww posted this 17 December 2007

RicinYakima wrote: SouthenMan. You're on if we make this fair at $100 a shot. Alternate targets from yours to mine. Scopes from concrete benchrest, metal chair, rifle on sand bags front and rear with a 1 inch black dot on cream paper at 200 yards. How about that? Ric

Sometimes i think big .45 holes just look more impresive than small ones.When the group is measured a “one hole” 45 group looks impressive even though it is really only 1"-1-3/4” The same in a 30 is pretty poor looking.I had a HB Siamese Mauser that shot 3/4 MOA,well at least i thought it did.I finally got around to measuring groups at 100 yds and most were no smaller than 1” and the others were closer to 1-1/2".This was jacketed bullets(don't tell anyone i shoot them)

 

Geo.

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linoww posted this 17 December 2007

RicinYakima wrote: SouthenMan. You're on if we make this fair at $100 a shot. Alternate targets from yours to mine. Scopes from concrete benchrest, metal chair, rifle on sand bags front and rear with a 1 inch black dot on cream paper at 200 yards. How about that? Ric

I like your style.

 

Geo.

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RicinYakima posted this 17 December 2007

SouthenMan. You're on if we make this fair at $100 a shot. Alternate targets from yours to mine. Scopes from concrete benchrest, metal chair, rifle on sand bags front and rear with a 1 inch black dot on cream paper at 200 yards. How about that? Ric

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linoww posted this 17 December 2007

Southern Man wrote: I dont know about offhand. But I'll shoot my Shiloh Sharps against a Savage bolt gun , with cast bullets in each, and iron sights on each, at 500 yards sitting on the ground using sticks, for $100 a shot , until I run out of money! Or get a pocket full, which ever comes first.Other than using cast bullets in IDPA ,I've never shot a cast bullet match of any kind. Southern Man

What kind of accuracy do you get out of that thing at 500 yds? I have shot at paper at  300 yards with cast and sub MOA is obtainable at that range(with a target rifle),but am not sure what would happen at 500 yds.

A buddy of mine shot an 1891 Mauser with cast 30's at a casual Cowboy match up to 450 yds at steel and had more hits than the 45-70 and 38-55 guys.It was a “Wild Bunch"match that allowed rifles up to a date current to the Buch Cassidy days.

I wouldnt bet money against a good 45-70 at long range myself.

George

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Southern Man posted this 17 December 2007

I dont know about offhand. But I'll shoot my Shiloh Sharps against a Savage bolt gun , with cast bullets in each, and iron sights on each, at 500 yards sitting on the ground using sticks, for $100 a shot , until I run out of money! Or get a pocket full, which ever comes first.Other than using cast bullets in IDPA ,I've never shot a cast bullet match of any kind. Southern Man

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CB posted this 05 December 2007

I guess I will have to start practicing... But I will have to use a scope, these eyes and arms aint 20 years young!

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CB posted this 05 December 2007

Jeff Bowles wrote: I tell ya what, it sound like there is a challenge afoot..

I know there will be many at the CBA nationals this year in KC.. Some will shoot in the offhand match.

I dont see much in the rules regarding limitations for the offhand match, so what the heck.. I shoot in production class, my rifle weighs 11 lb 15 1/2 oz.. I would be willing to give it a try, and that will be a challenge being I have 2 torn rotator cuffs and havent hoisted a rifle over than my hunting rifle up to my shoulder off hand in years.. Anyone else in on this?? Comeon production class shooters lets see how we do shooting a offhand match! Jeff,

We shoot off-hand matches at Wind Hill at each of our CBA BR matches. Five of us use a fun rifle of somekind while two others shoot their full blown Schuetzen off-hand rifles. I shot my Rem 700V with 24x scope and the Savage 12VBS with 36x scope. At the end of the season one of the Schuetzen shooters won top agg and I came in 2 points behind him. Production rifles work just fine, so yah lets get a bigger off-hand crowd at the NT08!  I'd like a 10x or 16x scope for off-hand. For iron sights, I wouldn't use anything but a top micrometer target peep sight set up, unless you're 20 years young, strong and with perfect vision  .>........................Dan

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Idaho Sharpshooter posted this 05 December 2007

I think he's putting on his “gameface".

I hope to make the Nats in 2008, if I get there I will shoot my Production Class Savage offhand as well. It would be great to see someone get this put into the next issue of TFS, and see what the PB guys say.

Rich

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CB posted this 04 December 2007

I tell ya what, it sound like there is a challenge afoot..

I know there will be many at the CBA nationals this year in KC.. Some will shoot in the offhand match.

I dont see much in the rules regarding limitations for the offhand match, so what the heck.. I shoot in production class, my rifle weighs 11 lb 15 1/2 oz.. I would be willing to give it a try, and that will be a challenge being I have 2 torn rotator cuffs and havent hoisted a rifle over than my hunting rifle up to my shoulder off hand in years.. Anyone else in on this?? Comeon production class shooters lets see how we do shooting a offhand match!

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RicinYakima posted this 04 December 2007

Geo,

What happened to that nice picture with you and the kids?

Ric

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Idaho Sharpshooter posted this 04 December 2007

Dean Miller would have shot anybody he found out fit a synthetic stock to one of his actions!

If you check jacketed BR records, you will see that the ones shot in the days of wooden stocks are not far off the current PB here.

They never let me “toss” my bad target at a schuetzenfest match. You put all five targets up and have a time frame to shoot ten shots on each one. There would be no way to scratch one and replace it.

I would dearly love to see what scores the top guns in CBA would post with iron sights, or shooting offhand. The PB rifles are generally weight limited to about twelve pounds, since they are shot offhand for half the matches.

I doubt you could find a top CBA shooter willing or able to hold his heavy or UNR offhand long enough to fire ONE ten shot group, or fit it with iron sights...or hit a barn at 200 yards if he could/would. Comparatively speaking, BR scope is the simplest, easiest form of cast bullet competition out there. It requires less skill, and practice.

Just posting what difference there is as someone who has shot both, and enjoys both. Two rotator cuff surgeries later, my OH shooting days are pretty much over.

My opinion, which is just and only that. One other thing, the single shots are much prettier.

Rich

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linoww posted this 04 December 2007

"Schuetzen is the ultimate test of man and machine."

Ok 'i'll bite on that bold statement<G>

Here I go---

I am not talking offhand prowess or anything else. I agree the matches are grueling and having only shot High-power CBA BR,  and 4p small-bore, I cant say how much more difficult it is. My point is how come the smallest groups records (and scores) in the CBA are not all held by PB shooters. If it's just the rifle type you say has the advantage rifle how come the Miller chambered in 6PPC doesn't hold all the records in jacketed bullet BR. Bolt guns do because they are inherently more accurate when all else in equal. We cannot breach seat legally in Heavy Class and I doubt it could be very practical in UNR bolt guns. I think the ability to get bullet fit (by breach seating)is the key to the accuracy “advantageâ€? if there is one. I have shot against Tommy, Bev,Chaucy Roe ,Bernie Connan and those guys and I saw no “bigâ€? advantage over bolt guns. Sometimes one individual shot better and that was it .Don't the ASSRA matches allow you toâ€? throw awayâ€? a bad target in the series? I can't remember??

This is all just my opinion, and is not anything more. Take it at that please.

George

 

 

 

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