Advanced Bunny Gun Project Concept

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  • Last Post 23 November 2014
Ed Harris posted this 18 November 2014

This brain fart started because I screwed up.  Back when I sent a .32 S&W Long REVOLVER reamer to John Taylor to make my very first .32 S&W Long Bunny Gun.

The gun shot fine, but its chamber had a revolver style, .315” diameter, cylindrical ball seat about 0.4” long! This was fine to seat bullets out to gain powder capacity, but I really have never been into “hot” loads accuracy was not as good as I had hoped for using my normal .32 S&W Long revolver loads.  The whole purpose was to use the same small game ammo in rifle and revolver. Having to do special rifle loads defeats the purpose.

John later reground that reamer to produce a normal “rifle type” throat, having a .313” ball seat and a 1 degree, 30 minutes Basic (3 degrees for the total included angle) forcing cone.  He used this to chamber my Army & Navy Cooperative Society rook rifle, which he relined for me to .32 S&W Long.  That rifle has shot splendidly, so well in fact that I sent my 18” .32 ACP barrel for the H&R single-shot to him to have it rechambered to .32 S&W Long as well, and that work exceeded all expectations.  

I still have a .32 ACP bunny rifle, but it's a Remington 580 single-shot bolt action, reworked by Andy Evens, which scratches THAT itch.   I call it my Bunny Sniper.  It doesn't need a “can” it is so quiet.... With the Accurate 31-087T bullet and 1.5 grains of Bullseye it is like a .30 cal. CB Cap.

Anyway, going back to the original revolver throated .32 S&W Long Bunny Gun barrel, I punched out the chamber to .32 H&R Magnum to experiment with that a while.  The long cylindrical throat was still 0.3” long, but it shot very well with H&R Magnum ammo.  No real difference with .32 S&W Long revolver loads, acceptable but “ordinary.” The Marlin Cowboy lever-action in .32 H&R Magnum was heavier and less accurate than the single-shot Bunny Guns, so I lost interest and sold it.

My 4-5/8” Ruger Single-Six in .32 H&R Magnum shot very well with either .32 S&W Longs or H&R Mags, but after Ruger discontinued the model, values went up, and a fellow shooter made me an attractive offer, so the Single-Six and Marlin combo went away.  I've never been enthralled with hotter varmint or small game loads which disturb the quiet of the woods.  My D-frame Colts fit easily in a coat pocket and were much handier in the woods than the Ruger.

I have owned several .32-20 revolvers in the past, but none were as accurate as the .32 Longs and the guns were larger and heavier.  I had assembled a K32 “parts gun” using a round-butt S&W Model 15 frame and a K32 cylinder I lucked into at the Richmond gun show about 10 years ago.  A chunk of .30 cal. rifle barrel was fitted to the frame, slab sided, and a ball cranelock installed, producing a .32 PPC revolver scaled to Bunny Wabbit proportions.  This has become one of my favorite guns and shot so well I sold off my pre-war Colt Officer's Model Target in .32 Colt New Police to a collector, to finance “tinkering” projects....

John Taylor and I were chatting and he mentioned that he was doing a gun for a customer using .357 Magnum brass necked to .30 cal. using .300 AAC Blackout dies.   I pondered my too-long, revolver throated rook rifle and my K32 parts gun and thought, why not do the same thing using .38 Special brass!  This should permit ballistics like the .32 H&R Magnum or .32-20, but at mild, standard .38 Special pressures, using modest charges of Bullseye.  Again, I have no interest in hot small game loads.  My objective is to work up a charge with Bullseye, probably 3.0-3.2 grains which is accurate with a heavy for the caliber, .32 revolver bullet at “Eley Tenex” rifle velocity (1050-1080 fps) and let the revolver velocity fall where it will, probably not much over 800 fps. Quite enough.   Quiet and accurate is the goal.

My plan is to have John shorten a set of Lee .300 Blackout dies by 0.22” and neck down .38 Specials, short-chambering the rook rifle barrel and S&W cylinder with his Blackout reamer stopped short to use the necked down .38 Special cases. 

I spoke with Tom at Accurate molds about cutting a mold similar to 31-114D, but heavier, about 130-135 grains, as heavy as will stabilize in a 16” twist barrel at subsonic velocity, which would  fill the Blackout throat, and also exploit the K-frame cylinder length, without any intrusion of the bullet base below the short Blackout neck.

The result is the Accurate 31-134D, which is now in the online catalog.  It should be a dandy bullet for those wanting a longer slug to seat out in .32 S&W Long brass for use in the 32 H&R Magnum, or in H&R Mag. brass for use in the .327 Federal.  Also a dandy small game bullet for the .303 British with a nose long enough to feed!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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mckg posted this 18 November 2014

Ed

It looks to me that even moderate bottlenecks like the 44-40 will show their nature pretty easily, pressure wise, compared to straight walled equivalents... or not, maybe if you reduce the sectional density of your bullet to match the parent cartridge (or similar).

I am not equipped to do any testing or measurement myself, but will follow this new project with interest :)

Also, what are your thoughts about reducing the free flight in a chamber such as yours, the way it was done in 7.65L French or 9mm “Longo” pistols, with a ring of steel?

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Ed Harris posted this 18 November 2014

At the modest velocities I am interested in, I don't anticipate any pressure problems. Capacity will be a bit larger than the .32-20 and similar modest charges are anticipated.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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william iorg posted this 21 November 2014

Ed, we are fiddling with the Ruger Single 7 in 327 Federal. The short cylinder has us casting about for suitable bullets. The use of the 32 Magnum brass with this bullet is certainly a possibility. I looked at your cartridge. You did not mention case length so I chose 1.1550”. I am not in a spot to measure 38 Special brass so I left the neck at .3440” from the 300 die so I don't have the neck diameter correct. I pushed the shoulder back till I got a neck long enough to seat the bullet .2440” and the shoulder till I got a 15 deg 15' angle just to look.

This rough case has a total water capacity of 20.0 grains. With my guess of seating the bullet .2466” you have a water capacity of 15.0 grains. I like any of the small .32 caliber cartridges as they make wonderful small game getters. Tell me how far off my dimensions are and I'll adjust them.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/selsnslim/Ed%20Harris%20new%20Bunny%20Gun%20Cart/edHarrisbunnyguncleanazps5d940fa4.jpg

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/selsnslim/Ed%20Harris%20new%20Bunny%20Gun%20Cart/Bunnyguncartcolorzpsf11d1043.jpg

Slim

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Ed Harris posted this 21 November 2014

The .300 AAC Blackout dies I will use for case forming have a 23° shoulder. I assumed a case length of 1.155", but I don't know for sure what the case length will be after necking. Neck diameter on the Blackout is .337” at the shoulder junction and .335” at the mouth., with neck length of. 30"

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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william iorg posted this 21 November 2014

Well, I took another run at it.

This one has a total water capacity of about 19.7 grains. With the bullet seated .201” it has a water capacity of 15.8 grains. As this is not a “hot rod” cartridge this is more than enough case capacity. With your chamber cut close you would not suffer the case loss problems I have with the Marlin Model 62 and the 256 Winchester case when formed from 357 Magnum cases. What the Marlin Model 62 needs is another barrel with a close cut chamber and this cartridge would be a bit more flexible for the cast bullet shooter than the 256WM. This is not load data, just capacity to the base of the bullet but with the bullet seated to .201” there is room for: 15.7 grains of Hodgdon 4227 14.9 grains of Hodgdon 4198 17.1 grains of Hodgdon Lil Gun The drawings of the bullet on the Accurate sight don't have clear OAL and seated dimensions so I am guessing.

The case clean zps19fb97e2.jpg">http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/selsnslim/Ed%20Harris%20new%20Bunny%20Gun%20Cart/EdHarris3238Splbltseatazps19fb97e2.jpg

Slim

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william iorg posted this 21 November 2014

Well, I have the first link messed up and I cannot edit the post!

Slim

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Ed Harris posted this 21 November 2014

31-134D bullet is 0.7” long Seating depth to crimp groove is .285" Overall cartridge length is 1.57” Max. with 1.155: case.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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william iorg posted this 21 November 2014

Now its starting to look like a cartridge. With the bullet seated I estimate a 14.2 grain water capacity. This leaves room for 14.1 grains of Hodgdon 4227 11.5 grains of Hodgdon 4198 13.2 grains of Hodgdon Lil Gun

Slim

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Ed Harris posted this 21 November 2014

With 130-grain NEI #82 in. 32 S&W Long case, seated out to 1.30” OAL for Marlin 1894CB I was using 7 grs. of #2400.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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william iorg posted this 21 November 2014

I have that mold. Mine is a gas check. I'll try it out. I dont need a great deal of velocity. I just need to hit the raccoons hard.

Slim

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Ed Harris posted this 21 November 2014

Mine was a GC, but I had Erik convert it to a 7-1/2° bevel base.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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william iorg posted this 21 November 2014

That would ease the seating depth. I seat mine .355” deep in the 32 H&R Magnum.

Slim

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william iorg posted this 23 November 2014

Ed, Have you rough formed any cases yet? I was looking at a few tips on forming the .30 Reece ”€œ (357 Magnum necked to .30 caliber). Also some early 256WM stuff from Ed Yard. Yard used a rod in the case to help prevent shoulder collapse. We have a 300 Whisper. I was thinking about giving it a try this week ”€œ without shortening my die! The Ruger single 7 has a bit shorter cylinder than the S&W Carrry Comp (Kitgun). 1.595” for the Smith and 1.419 for the Ruger. Cylinder mover for the picture but the difference is quite a bit.

Slim

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william iorg posted this 23 November 2014

I have more trouble with links and this forum deifies my attempts to edit a post!

Slim

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Ed Harris posted this 23 November 2014

Have not formed any cases yet, as still waiting for dies, which will need to be cut off. Will send everything off to John Taylor when they arrive.

The Accurate 31-134D mold did arrive and I've cast bullets to try. Sized to .312, crimped in the crimp groove of .30-'06 brass, chambered and extracted from my Winchester 54, they engrave like Eley Tenex in a .22 Match rifle. Going to try some in the '06 with 5 grains of Bullseye and in the .32 S&W Long with 6 grs. of #2400. UPDATE 24 March 2015 I got the rechambered H&R barrel and modified dies back from John Taylor. John recommended that we NOT attempt rechambering the K32 cylinder because the resulting chamber wall thickness would be too thin under the locking bolt notches.  If, after playing with the cartridge in a single-shot rifle I decide that I still want a revolver in this flavor, I'll jump into that pool later. Range report will have to wait, because I also got my .44-40 Vaquero cylinder back with the chamber necks and throats reamed, and I now also have a 19-1/2” Microgroove barreled .44 tube to go onto the Original Famous and No Longer Unique Backpacker's Bunny Gun. With the .44-40 barrel installed, the "Anti-Tactical Bunny Gun” is 34-1/2” long and weighs only 4 pounds!  Guess which goes to the range first?

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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