.38 Super / 9mm Largo cast loads

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  • Last Post 02 December 2014
TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 21 November 2014

I'm just starting to load for a Colt commander (4") in 38 Super.  (Also have a Destroyer Carbine.)   Looking for suggestions in cast loads.  

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delmarskid1 posted this 21 November 2014

I have a Star auto loader in 9mm Largo. I've tried 9mm Luger starting loads with good results.

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Wineman posted this 22 November 2014

Early Colt 38 Supers used the Semi rim to headspace, there is no chamber shoulder. This is a BAD way to headspace a round. It never really gets a solid stop when the firing pin hits. If you have a later IPSC major barrel (Les Baer etc.) it probably has a shoulder. If not, the best way I have found is to use the bullet to headspace off of. Seat them long enough to kiss the lands and hold the round firmly. My Series 70 with the pronged barrel bushing went from pie plate groups at 10 yards to soup can sized groups when I seated long. This has worked with cast, and I have not tried it with jacketed. YMMV. The other problem is that it is almost impossible to find your 38$ brass in the mounds of 9 mm brass on the ground at most ranges. I used 5.3 of Unique behind a 158 grain RNFP and a CCI SP primer in Rem nickle brass.

Dave

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giorgio de galleani posted this 22 November 2014

I have an old Thompson 911 clone ,bought used, marked 9x23 ,the Steyr pistol caliber.

That is practically equal to the spanish 9 Largo .

There is a legend about the traight blow back ,bycicle pump pistol shooting with all the 9mm rounds from 380ACP ,9mm and 38 super .

The Steyr brass has very thin walls and the pistol did not accept the 38super brass ,that is a little common here in Italy.

So I got a 38 super finishing reamer from Brownells ,and passed it cautiously in the chamber, controlling with 38 super cases used as headspace gauges.

The pistol shoots decently , with minute of steel challenge plates accuracy , not worse than the other 9x21 pistols or revolvers I have .

It shoots reliably with 9x21 brass with cast bullets seated out to headspace on the bullet.

My pet bullet comes from  a Lee 6 cavity mould ,a 150 grs round nose.As the various lighter truncated cone design keyhole all the time.

I use a legal 130 power factor. Velocity is mild around 900fps.

Due to the illuminated legislators we enjoy in this “paese do sole ” nation, pistols in 9 mm Luger are illegal ,  the terrible war waging round is legal in carbines and revolvers(lead bullets only) . I have to stand all the spent cases on a table and sort them by their length. 

I am not a bullseye shooter,and for recreational steel practice I use the 38 super with 9x21 brass , when I go to a match I use a regular STI Spartan 911 clone 9x21 auto and a S&W revolver.  At matches you are not allowed to collect your brass , the 9x21 cases can be abandoned, for I can collect buckets of them at the range.       

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 22 November 2014

THANKS! That answers my unasked questions about using 148-160gr bullets.

Have to tweek the port a little so it will eject a loaded round - problematic if it doesn't.

Not worried about super accuracy - 4” bbl in a Colt commander - not a precision bulls-eye shooting iron.

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Duane Trusty posted this 22 November 2014

TRK

You may be surprised how well 38 Super will shoot. Check some the old Lyman cast manuals for 38m Super loads using the nominal 158 grain round nose bullet.

Duane Trusty

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Wineman posted this 22 November 2014

It can also get er done with respect to power. Not 357 territory but getting close. With the right barrel and chamber it is a standout. It was really the first +P round with the power increase in the same case as the 38 ACP. Saw a nice Colt 1902 today (might have been a 1903 PH?) and period box of ammo.

Dave

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James S posted this 23 November 2014

Been looking around for 38 S&W loads too.  Working on rebuild of a tortured 'Victory' return from England, built in 1943.  Bore is  0.360 inch.  New bbl will be spec 5 inch, the original was cut to 2 inch and at a sever angle.  To correct and square would shorten bbl where it would not hold on to the cylinder eject rod.  Anyone shoot the older 38 S&W?

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 23 November 2014

i have some astra 400 pistolas in 9 largo for sale. these are a man's gun; i now need hydraulic assist to rack them. ( g ) . pm me if.

ken

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 23 November 2014

Ken Campbell Iowa wrote: i have some astra 400 pistolas in 9 largo for sale. these are a man's gun; i now need hydraulic assist to rack them. ( g ) . pm me if.

ken I'd always wanted one (when I lived in Grinnell in the 50's and 60's).  Doesn't surprise me on the spring tension,  the spring for the Commander is 18 lbs and has another smaller spring in addition to smooth the recoil.

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RicinYakima posted this 24 November 2014

There should be an article in the next Fouling Shot I did on the 38 S&W.

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James S posted this 24 November 2014

I will look forward to reading your article, Ric. With proper sized and hardened cast bullets and a finished revolver your article will come in handy. James.

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noylj posted this 01 December 2014

Just remember, the 9mm Largo is not the .38 Auto which is not the .38 Super. Use the right brass for the right cartridge the gun is chambered for.

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Millelacs posted this 02 December 2014

Astra 400s marked “9mm/38” were originally manufactured or later modified to accept .38 Auto casings.

I use 9mm Para powder charges in .38 Super Auto casings in 9mm Largo Astra 400s and a Star Super. With the larger .38 Super case capacity vs 9mm Para case capacity, pressures should be lower. Obviously I'm not pushing any limits here.

I have aftermarket 9mm Para barrels for my Asta 400s. I shoot both 9mm Para ammo and .38 Super reloads DOWNLOADED to .38 Auto levels without any problems.

Note: I have been reloading 9mm Para ammo for my Astra 400s “long” for so long, I don't remember why. I noticed it when I put some of these long rounds in a Browning Hi-Power. I could only get three of these long rounds in the Hi-Power magazine, before the magazine jammed. I may have started loading the rounds long to solve feeding problems with cast bullets from the longer 9m Largo / .38 Auto magazines.

9mm Largo / .38 Auto compatibility is NOT the case with Star Supers. .38 Super and 9mm Para casings have thicker rims than the 9mm Largo. If you put a .38 Super case or 9mm Para case in an unmodified Star Super, the thicker rim gets stuck in the extractor, locking the slide making it very difficult to extract the case. The gap between the extractor and slide face is to small.

I had to have the extractor thinned on my Star Super to accept the thicker rim on the .38 Super Auto casing. I've heard of machining the face of the Star slide a bit to accept the thicker .38 Auto rim, but that sounds pretty drastic and expensive to me.

I also have an aftermarket 9mm Para barrel for my Star Super, and shoot the same “long” 9mm Para cast bullet rounds without problems

I have a 1975 vintage Star Super B, factory made in 9mm Para. I don't remember having any problems with jacketed bullets. I did have the ramp polished, in the late 70's, to aid feeding cast bullets. Maybe that wouldn't have been necessary if I had loaded the rounds long.

The owner's manual that came with the Super B had an exploded parts diagram for it and a Star Super A in .38 Super. The only difference in the two pistols was the barrels.

Evidently some Star 9mm Largo pistols were capable of firing .38 Auto (.38 ACP) ammo:

Quote Pistols marked 9 mm / 38 are designed to fire .38 ACP and 9 mm Largo ammunition, but NEVER .38 Super. Read more detail on ammunition for older pistols. EndQuote

http://www.star-firearms.com/firearms/guns/a/>http://www.star-firearms.com/firearms/guns/a/

I like the Stars and Astras. It's to bad the companies went out of business, and parts are so hard to find.

Note: If anyone knows where to find a Star Super B / Star Super slide stop, let me know.

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