Vetterli

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  • Last Post 20 January 2015
waltherp88 posted this 08 January 2015

I am going to  start to cast bullets and wanted to cast for my Vetterli. I have slugged the bore at .426.  I have heard some people use 44 mag bullets sized down for this.  Could anyone tell me what they are using for their Vetterli. P.S.  I have found a site called Old Yoti and they sell an original Vetterli bullet mold.  Does anyone use these? Would their be any advantage to using these? Could anyone suggest one over the other? Any help would be appreciated.  

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gpidaho posted this 08 January 2015

Waltherp88: I can't give any advice on a Vetterli having never even seen one, but if a round nose flat point would help a Saeco# 61444 drops a .428 bullet with my WW+2% tin. GP

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giorgio de galleani posted this 08 January 2015

Any Veterli rifle is not to be treated like a 100yds bench rest modern gun.

Neither like any modern bolt action gun.

There were no SAAMI or CIP drawings in the 1880 years.

There is no definite chamber stop in the front , and no throat.

The rifling begins shallow and then it becomes gradually deep.

The original bullets were paper patched ,sporter bullets were heeled and outside lubricate . And they were hollow based ,in the miniè style .

I suspect they used the same bullets of the muzzle loading Swiss federal  rifle .

I  used to have a sporter hammerless martini rifle in the original 10.3 Swiss Caliber, the firing pin can be moved from rimfire to center fire  position.

And have the original mould ,that casts a bullet like  the pills of the 22lr,hollow base and outside lubricated.

If you can get an authentic old time mold , get it at once .

If not , get any 44 pistol mould sporting a gas check  shank ,cast it in a very soft alloy  and load it like it was an outside lubricated bullet .

The only thing you have to watch  is that it chambers easily ,without effort , the swiss actions do not have the camming action of the K98 rifle .

The  exact groove diameter or the throat diameter are meaningless , as long you can chamber fat and soft bullets.

 

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giorgio de galleani posted this 08 January 2015

I have found a pic of an original rimfire round and the modern rounds made by me .

Note that the original rimfire rim is thicker than the modern rim of cases made from  348 win cases or from the RWS 10.3x60 cases.

You have to fire form your cases and get them to headspace on the shoulder.

Remember ancient and obsolete rifles want soft bullets and light loads os fast powders.  

aap2 posted this 12 January 2015

Walther: The Old Yoti site is out of business and I have heard that some people who sent money for moulds got burned. : I had Accurate moulds cut me a Vetterli bullet (mould number 436330C) in .436” to fit the .435 bore of my Swiss M78; it's a great bullet at about 330 grains, shoots great and feeds perfectly.  I'm surprized that your bore diameter is that small; I haven't measured one less than .429, but they seem to  vary a bit.   You can probably use the Lee 44mag bullet and size to fit, but the cartridge OAL will be too short to feed as a repeater...which is no big deal.  You can find tons of Vetterli reloading info just by googling “swiss Vetterli centerfire conversion” etc.  If you want some conveted brass and a handful of the 330 grain Vetterli bullets (you can size them down, the lube grooves are huge) shoot me a PM and I'll send them to  you no charge.

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aap2 posted this 12 January 2015

These are the cases and bullets:

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giorgio de galleani posted this 12 January 2015

I expect large variations of bore & throat dimensions in those pre SAAMI and CIPE  rifles .

There is a reason for the use of hollow base Miniè original lead bullets .

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aap2 posted this 12 January 2015

Giorgio makes a good point about the bore and throat dimensions being all over the place. Unlike most rifles, my Vetterli will shoot undersized flat-based bullets fairly well without leading (.428 bullets in the .435 bore)...I think this is because the lands are so huge that they actually swage the bullet larger by displacing the soft lead as it travels down the bore. The original bullet's hollow base helped with expansion in rifles with different bore diameters, but IMHO also allowed a longer bullet (essential for function as a repeater) without making the bullet too heavy be stable with the Vetterli twist.

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waltherp88 posted this 15 January 2015

Is my thinking in reverse? I slugged the bore from the muzzle to the chamber and got .426. From what I understand of what I am being told I want to fill the throating which is, I am sure, much larger than .426. Therefore I don't want to size it to .426 but want to fill it as much as possible and not worry about the .426 bore diameter by filling the throating to make the bullet seal from the start and the extra diameter is basically meaningless? And, by using .429-.430 diameter bullets ,which would not require any sizing, would be the correct one to use? I have been up too long to think and type. I hope this makes some sense.

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giorgio de galleani posted this 15 January 2015

The obsolete rifles do not have the camming action of the Mauser 98 bolt, so ,in my opinion you can follow the old sistem of shooting the largest bullet  you can chamber without effort. Use a soft alloy and a moderate load of fast shotgun powder.

This combo of  a large diameter soft bullet  and low pressure load should keep you far from troubles , and give a lot of fun from shooting a piece of firearms history.

 

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argie1891 posted this 20 January 2015

I don't bother to slug barrels anymore as I have found it to be not as important as the throat measurement. in my vetterli I use bullets out of a lbt 44 mag. mould. they cast right at 300 gr. It is my opinion that the soft lead will not cause pressure problems. I do know one person who re chambered a 45 colt handi rifle to 45-70 shoots soft bullets with loads for the trap door rifle and there is no pressure signs. for cases I was given some 8mm lebel blanks made by Remington in 1918. The biggest problem I have has with them is picking the compressed powder out of the case. I tried shooting the blanks and most were duds. I don't shoot mine much and really should sell it to someone who shoot it. bought it read everything I could find on it, shot it and now I am ready to move on to something else.

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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