Need a larger bullet from my mold

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  • Last Post 26 November 2016
cat1870 posted this 10 January 2015

Hello All:My rifle barrel has a groove Dia. of .459.I'm casting with wheel weights with a ladle plus 2% tin added.Casting temp is 750.My bullets are dropping from the mold at .4575.How can I get the bullets up to .459 or .460? Thanks, Gary

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Chargar posted this 10 January 2015

There are three ways I know of to get you where you want to be, well four if you include buying a larger mold. 1. Use an alloy high in antimony like Linotype. That will gain you an extra .001 - .0022. 2. Lap the mold cavity larger.3. Use thin strips of aluminum AC duct tape on the inside of the blocks to keep them from closing tightly. This will give you a slightly out of round bullet, but most of that can be taken out by sizing. You will just have to try if and see if the results are satisfactory.  There may be other and better ways, but the above is the limit of my knowledge on the subject. 

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onondaga posted this 10 January 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=701>cat1870

Your pot temp and alloy are OK, but your casting method can be optimized for casting the largest your mold will do by:

1, Increase your casting cadence to 3 or more drops a minute, this will keep mold at a higher temperature for larger castings. 2, do not pause to look at bullet quality or to add metal to pot, this will lower temperatures and make your castings smaller. 3. If you are cutting sprues by hitting the sprue plate with a dowel or mallet, try to learn to hand open the mold with a gloved hand at the first sign of cooling crystallization. This will keep your operating temp higher and castings will be larger. 4, over pour onto the sprue plate for the largest puddle you can balance, this will keep your operating temp higher and castings will be larger. 5, only add sprues or new metal when pot is low to start a new casting session. Adding metal while casting will lower pot temp and mold temp significantly and make your castings smaller. 6, consider an outboard PID temp controller for your pot. Read the postings on this forum about member Pigslayer that offers PID controllers to members at a very nice price. I have one of Pat's PID controllers and it works wonderfully maintain very accurate pot temperature:http://castbulletassoc.org/view_topic.php?id=10652&forum_id=72>http://castbulletassoc.org/viewtopic.php?id=10652&forumid=72

If you really follow all the tips for maximizing bullet size and fail, consider getting a mold that specifies a larger bullet size. If your molds are aluminum, you can learn to hone them larger and there are posts on this forum that cover mold honing very well.

Gary

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cat1870 posted this 10 January 2015

Gary.Thanks for your tips.  I do all of those mentioned except #3.  With that I use a nylon stick.The mold I'm using is Lyman's 457193 which works well with my 1886 .45-70.I'm wondering if the bullets that are .458 will bump up enough with smokeless powder... Gary

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onondaga posted this 10 January 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=701>cat1870

3 tip will help, but there is a catch. Try the method and take a good discerning look at your as cast bullets. Are they nice and shiny and pretty? Shiny and pretty is wrong if you want the largest diameter for your bullets. They will be bigger if they are lightly frosted with an overall velvety surface and no shine. Your casting cadence will have a major effect on all of the tips given . You want the bullets as large as your mold will do, the bullets will have to be velvety with a little frost and no shine. Adjust your cadence and try again if you had shiny bullets.

http://s30.photobucket.com/user/rhymeswithwhat/media/AL45RDslip.jpg.html>

Regarding your bullets bumping up or obdurating to fill the bore. That will only happen if your alloy is 10% or more, lower,  in ultimate tensile strength (in psi) than the ballistic pressure of your load in psi. You will need reliable data on load pressure in psi and a hardness testing kit for your bullets to ensure that you will get your bullets to obdurate from your load level. The chart with the Lee hardness test kit gives alloy strength in psi and BHN based on your bullet testing with the kit. This completely takes the guess work away and will tell you if your bullets will obdurate before you even shoot them.

Gary

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cat1870 posted this 10 January 2015

Some are shiny but most have a slight frost to them....

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onondaga posted this 10 January 2015

see my picture and edit . real change in result will only come from  real change in method.

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cat1870 posted this 10 January 2015

A sample of my bullets..These are .458 so it's getting there... One thing I realize that I was doing was putting the spru right back into the pot, right from the mold.... 

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onondaga posted this 10 January 2015

Your bullets in the picture have excellent sharp fill-out and some frost. You may not be able to get them bigger from that particular mold. Saving your sprues till you start a casting session and increasing your cadence plus the other tips  can bring your mold temperature up 50 degrees without any change in your pot setting.

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cat1870 posted this 10 January 2015

onondaga wrote: Your bullets in the picture have excellent sharp fill-out and some frost. You may not be able to get them bigger from that particular mold. Thank you, Gary.  You've been most helpful.I've been casting for 10-15 years and still learn something every time I have a casting session.:) Gary

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onondaga posted this 10 January 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=701>cat1870 Look at accurate molds. They are now producing a copy of my RanchDog bullets above and you specify your alloy and diameter desired for them to cut the molds. I shoot that bullet at 1700fps from a .458 Win Mag for Bear hunting.

I am 64 and casting gold since age 6, bullets since age 7. . Now I am a retired casting analyst that worked in the Dental alloy industry teaching casting and consulting.

Gary

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cat1870 posted this 10 January 2015

Yes.... I was looking at Accurate Molds earlier today,,,,I'm wanting this for   my 1886 Win. .45-70.

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Fg1 posted this 14 January 2015

I have a 321297 I believe it is for 32Spl. that always cast a .322 bullet . A friend needed some bullets for his 32-40 so I cast him up some but this time I used a mix that was in the pot 50WW + 50lead and water dropped from the mold .This time using this method they were .324 and around 24BHN. Large enough that I saved a few back to try in my 8mm-06 !

So you may want to try water dropping in to a can of water straight from the mold .

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cat1870 posted this 14 January 2015

Fg1 wrote: I have a 321297 I believe it is for 32Spl. that always cast a .322 bullet . A friend needed some bullets for his 32-40 so I cast him up some but this time I used a mix that was in the pot 50WW + 50lead and water dropped from the mold .This time using this method they were .324 and around 24BHN. Large enough that I saved a few back to try in my 8mm-06 !

So you may want to try water dropping in to a can of water straight from the mold .Will dropping them in water make a difference in size??

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Fg1 posted this 14 January 2015

It has with 50/50 mix.

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cat1870 posted this 14 January 2015

onondaga wrote: http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=701>cat1870

Water quenching has no effect on  bullet size, but the 1:1 wheel weight : lead is too weak for rifle load ballistic pressure without the water quenching. That alloy is only suitable for very light gallery loads in rifles.

Gary Yes.....That's what I thought..... Gary

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oscarflytyer posted this 14 January 2015

Cat - If you are looking at a new mold, might give the Lee 405 grn HB a look.  Mine casts about .460.  ANd the hollow base bumps up well in my Marlin 45-70.  Shoots well with a lighter load

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John Alexander posted this 14 January 2015

I have just deleted two posts from this thread that I thought were out of line.

The first flatly contradicted a statement by another member who had reported what he had found.

If we never disagreed with each other this forum would lose a lot of its value but when we disagree we have to take a minute and consider how the other guy will feel and write your dissenting opinion carefully.  It is easy to get careless.

It is not acceptable to simply say -- you are wrong.  We all know there are better ways to disagree and in spite of how sure you are there is always the change you are wrong so disagreeing  calls for a little humility.

We also can't have people making personal remarks about another member no matter how provoked they might be.

We appreciate your efforts to keep this forum civil.  Thanks.

John

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billglaze posted this 14 January 2015

John:Well said, and thanks for your efforts.  I, as well as many others, I am sure, have followed the advice my departed Mother-in-Law followed.  She always  "kept silent in 7 languages".I assume that when a person puts something on the board, they have found that it works for them.  I wouldn't deign to dispute that supposition, even on those occasions when I have already tried the idea, and found that it didn't work, in my case.The operative phrase is:  In my case.Thanks again. Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 16 January 2015

so far the discussion has been about producing a bullet of groove diameter ... good start. but before obtaining yet another mold...... keep in mind our ( currently, although perhaps temporarily ) #1 rule

:: things get better if the bullet fits the throat , even if it gets sized down to groove diameter upon firing.


over the years, various rules have deigned ( g ) to become #1 ...this ” fat bullet for fat throats ” proposition is a strong candidate for tenure !!


and yes, most of us have played the mold-collection game, i rationalize it by claiming an addiction to pretty gadgets ...

my name is ken and i have molds for guns i don't have ...

ken

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S.B. posted this 26 November 2016

Rabbit your molds. Check on Cast Bullet.com for instructions. Steve

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