Help Wanted on new 9mm/38Super cast bullet design

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  • Last Post 21 May 2015
DR Owl Creek posted this 09 February 2015

Several of us on the NOE Forum have been working on a new heavy weight cast bullet design for 9mm and 38 Super pistols. Frank Elliott/ELCO (frnkeore on this forum) has been doing the actual design work for this bullet. We're hoping to come up with the best 9mm/38 Super cast out there for IDPA, USPSA, IPSC, etc., competition, as well as for personal defense use.   We believe we have a really good design, that would cast at 150gr as a flat point and at 147gr as a hollow point. An issue has been raised, however, suggesting two changes: 1. To lighten the bullet to about 147gr as a flat point, and 140gr as a hollow point; and, 2. To lengthen the front driving band by 0.050".   We really need your expert opinion now on which way to go forward with this project. Even it you aren't currently 9mm/38 Super shooters or in the market for a bullet of this type, your input would be helpful. Please go to the discussion thread and help us out, at: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,597.0.html>http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,597.0.html   Thanks,   Dave

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onondaga posted this 09 February 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_user.php?id=8118>DR Owl Creek

The bevel base is a good plan. Consider tumble lube grooves instead of traditional pressure lube design. This gives more leeway to an oversize bullet for accuracy and I have found no limit to velocity when using Delux Liquid X-Lox 45:45:10 commercial lube from White Label Lube Co. :

 http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=31>http://lsstuff.com/store/index.php?mainpage=productinfo&cPath=2&productsid=31

$15/quart lasts about forever. Applied warm to warmed bullets, it dries clear and tack free in less than 5 minutes. It is the only lube I use for all calibers with cast bullets. If you get your mold design correct so you need no sizing, only one coat of tumble lube is needed.  If you need to size the bullets, lube lightly once before sizing then lube once lightly after sizing.

The Lee TL358-158-SWC will easily size to what you need for 9mm and this mold is available in 2 or 6 cavity from Lee. Cast in Hardball pistol alloy at BHN 15 these bullets will run lighter than 158 gr.  6 cavity/ $39.99:

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=lee+TL358-158-SWC

Gary

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Ed Harris posted this 09 February 2015

Giorgio and I have been using Accurate 36-155D.

While I have been using it mostly in revolvers and cowboy rifles, he has had good results with it in the various 9mms. You can order the mold with smaller diameter driving bands than shown on the drawing, and with smaller bore riding diameter on the nose. Note that the nose tolerance is NEGATIVE so as to avoid impingement against the forcing cone of 9mm autos.

Feeds like a pony trotting using light charges approximating .38 Special velocity.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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onondaga posted this 09 February 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_user.php?id=8118>DR Owl Creek, that bullet of Ed's is a beauty and will tumble lube just fine.

Gary

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Wineman posted this 10 February 2015

My only comment, and I have posted it before, is that early (at least through the 1980's) Colt 1911 38 Super's headspace on the semi rim. This is a real accuracy killer. My solution was to seat out far enough to use the bullet into the lands as the headspace rather than the semi rim (thanks Ed). The key is a bullet that can do this and still be Mag length. More modern 38 Super barrels and of course 9mm barrels do not have this issue.

Dave

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DR Owl Creek posted this 10 February 2015

Gary,

I like Lar's White Label Lubes (Xlox, Carnauba Red, 45-45-10)too.

Ranch Dog is a big tumble lube fan too. Ranch Dog has a group buy discussion thread going on now for his TLC 357 135 RF 9mm bullet. You might really like that one. He would probably appreciate someone to help promote that design with him. To see that discussion thread, go to: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php?topic=26.0

Ed,

Thank you for pointing out that Accurate mould. I know Tom at Accurate has some other really interesting 9mm/38 Super designs too. I don't have any Accurate moulds yet. From everything I've seen though, they're all works of art.

One consideration for me, however, is I want a hollow point design. Tom doesn't offer those. I know Erik at Hollow Point Mold service can convert them, but I believe he charges $50.00 per cavity now, plus shipping. When you starting thinking about multi-cavity designs, the cost adds up fast.

To put that cost in perspective, I just sent in my payment for the NOE 402 170gr TC RG/HP 2 cavity aluminum mould from a group buy that just closed. For the 2 cavity mould, both sets of pins (HP & FP), Lyman/RCBS style top punch, and shipping, and with my 15% group buy discount, my total cost was $97.55. Converting a 2 cavity mould would cost more than that.

Another consideration is that Al at NOE probably wouldn't run a design that was a copy of an existing Accurate design. It would really help, however, if you would join in the discussion on the NOE 9mm/38 Super discussion thread, and offer your input about what you think would make a great bullet design.

Dave,

Thanks for pointing out those considerations about seating touching the lands, and still having an overall length that fits in a magazine. Those are factors that need to be addressed too. Please go to the NOE discussion thread and bring that point up.

Thanks,

Dave

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DR Owl Creek posted this 13 February 2015

The NOE 358 155gr TC, designed by Frank Elliott/ELCO, has gone to an Active Group Buy already. The bullet will cast at .358” using wheel weight alloy as a 155gr FP, and 147gr as a HP.   The mould will be available in 2 cavity, 4 cavity, and 5 cavity versions, in both aluminum and brass. It will be available in both flat point and hollow point designs as well. Lyman/RCBS and SAECO style top punches will be available too.   It will only take 10 people to sign-up for the Group Buy to send it to production. Everyone signing up for the Group Buy will receive a 15% discount from the catalog price too. What's not to like?   To see the Discussion Thread, go to: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,597.0.html>http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,597.0.html   To sign up on the Active Group Buy Thread, go to: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,644.0.html>http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,644.0.html   Thanks,   Dave

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DR Owl Creek posted this 18 February 2015

I want to thank everyone who made suggestions and contributed to the design of the new NOE 358 155gr TC (ELCO) heavy weight, subsonic 9mm/38 Super bullet design. We've had a great response so far, and enough people have already signed-up for the Group Buy to send the mould to production. The Group Buy will remain open until the tooling arrives, and the Group Buy closes. You can still join in.

To see the Discussion Thread, and more specifics on the design, please go to: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,597.0.html

To sign-up on the Active Group Buy Thread, please go to: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,644.0.html

Thanks,

Dave

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DR Owl Creek posted this 20 February 2015

Al (Swede) Nelson has ordered the tooling to produce the new NOE 358 155gr FP/147gr HP 9mm/38 Super bullet mould. Al said it has been taking about two weeks to get the tooling in to produce the moulds. After the tooling arrives, Al will schedule production of the bullet moulds. There's still time to sign-up for one of these moulds.

In addition to the Discussion Thread for the new bullet design on the NOE Forum, there was also a discussion thread on the other cast bullet forum. To see that discussion thread, go to: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?268622-Help-Wanted!-New-9mm-38Super-Heavy-Weight-Cast-Bullet-Design

To sign-up for the Active Group Buy on the NOE Forum, while you still can, please go to: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,644.0.html

Thanks,

Dave

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DR Owl Creek posted this 26 February 2015

So far, 19 people have ordered one of the new NOE 358 155gr FP/147gr HP, 9mm/38 Super bullet moulds. The Group Buy is still open. To order one for yourself, go to: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,644.0.html

Dave

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DR Owl Creek posted this 03 March 2015

Al (Swede) Nelson has scheduled running the new NOE 358 155gr TC (ELCO) mould around 6/10/15. Please join in before that date.

Thanks,

Dave

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DR Owl Creek posted this 24 March 2015

Al has changed the estimated production date for the NOE 358 155gr TC (ELCO) mould Group Buy to 5/5/15. So far 25 people have ordered one. To sign-up for the Group Buy while you still can, go to: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,644.0.html

Dave

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DR Owl Creek posted this 06 April 2015

The estimated production date for this mould is still 5/5/15. 26 people have ordered one so far. If you would like to get your 15% group buy discount, order one now at: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,644.0.html

Dave

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DR Owl Creek posted this 18 April 2015

The Group Buy for the NOE 358 155gr TC is still open. The estimated production date is still 5/5/15. 28 people have ordered a mould so far. You can still order one, and get your 15% group buy discount at: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,644.0.html

Dave

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DR Owl Creek posted this 29 April 2015

This mould is still on track to be run on 5/5/15. 34 people have ordered one so far. You can still join in, and order one at the 15% group buy discount at: http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,644.0.html

Thanks

Dave

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DR Owl Creek posted this 21 May 2015

Here's a link to a discussion on the other forum about casting and loading for the new NOE 358 155gr TC (ELCO) bullet: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?278539-Elco-tc-hp

Check it out. Please add in any data you have that may help out.

Thanks,

Dave

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