Sizing noses

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Last Post 21 April 2015

Standard Member

PETE posted this 16 April 2015

Last Fall John Alexander mentioned that NOE had available an 80 gr. .22 bullet that he thought might be promising at 200 yds. if your twist was fast enuf. Sounded like a good idea and my Sav. model 12 has a 1-9” twist so ordered one.

After trying several different alloys there was no way that the bullet could be pressed into the muzzle. Seating the bullet in a dummy round the only way you could close the bolt was to seat the bullet into the neck well past the driving bands. So the problem is..... does anyone know a way I can size the noses down to work? some ideas I thought of don't take into account keeping the nose in alignment with the driving bands.

Unless I can come up with something I've just wasted my money.

Pete

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 17 April 2015

Why not a two-diameter sizing die (lube-sizer)?

put bullet in point first, deeper/smaller diameter about equal to bore diameter and shallower/larger diameter about equal to groove diameter (+.001).

you could even adjust the form for YOUR rifle - match the chamber cast.

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CBA Member

gpidaho posted this 17 April 2015

PETE: Buckshot over at boolits makes nose sizing dies. Lube sizing die with a Redding style bushing. Don't have one yet myself but have heard nothing but great reviews. GP

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PETE posted this 17 April 2015

Trk,

Thought of that but don't have boring bar or reamers that small.

Gpidaho,

Will take a look and see if buckshot can make me one. Would need it for a Lyman 450 or SAECO luber-sizer.

Probably the big thing is I cast my .22 bullets out of Lino which is going to take a lot of “push” to do the job even with Imperial Wax. Also the ejection rod would have to fit the spitzer point.

Will look into what buckshot can do and see what he can come up with.

Thanks for the comments.

Pete

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CBA President

John Alexander posted this 17 April 2015

Pete, My NOE 22780 sp molds all cast bullets a bit too small for my rifles. Maybe we could trade molds. One mold casts noses at .2197 - .2200 in wheelwright alloy. What is the diameter of your noses perpendicular to the mold line? What is the max and min diameter (indicating offset of mold halves?)

Have you tried an alloy softer than wheelweight alloy? Linotype is unforgiving if bore riding noses are a little too large. Softer alloys work better for some kinds of bullet/bore dimensions and some kinds of loads. I seldom use linotype.

John

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CBA Member

gnoahhh posted this 17 April 2015

I had a similar problem with an 8mm Karabiner mold from Lee. I turned/bored a stepped sizing die for use in a small arbor press, with a flanged plunger to precisely stop the bullet shy of jamming the first driving band into the smaller chamber. Works a treat, allowing said bullets to be used in an un-washed out 8x57. Lots of odd ball chucking reamers out there to achieve any diameter you want. Custom grinding of same is inexpensive, and don't overlook metric sizes which fill the gaps between standard diameters. Lots of ways to skin that cat.

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CBA Member

Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 17 April 2015

hi pete ... how about rethroating your rifle for the larger nose ...then that would be your sizing die when you pull the trigger .

joeb and i have had some discussions of about similar situation( s ) .

i have several 22 centerfire throaters if you would be interested ... either making you a deeper throat in your barrel, or a sizing gadget of some configuration to size your nose . joeb and i were/are talking about a full swager die ....

btw, you can make a decent sizer gadget from good aluminum .. good if you need 2 or 12 different attemps at a solution ... much easier of reamer life . besides, i have a stash of 2 tons of good aluminum bar ( g ) . anybody need some ?

TRUTH IN LENDING: not to irritate the production rifle afficianados ... but i still don't comprehend that concept of keep buying production rifles to find a good one ... ... must be a missing walnut in my brain ... as far as i know, only sako or tikka sends a 1/2 moa target along with your new ” production ” rifle . now to me ...MODIFYING a production rifle seems logical ...

anyway, be glad to help ... i got a lathe and i have progressed to standing up 3 hours day now ... pm me if i can help ...

ken

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PETE posted this 17 April 2015

John,

The dim. perpendicular to the parting line for my NOE 22780 SP is .2226” and across the parting line is .2236".

I have an NOE 60 bullet that fits the muzzle perfectly and measures .2194” perpendicular to the parting line and .2197” across the parting line.

So what I'm looking for is a mold, or sizing die for the nose that will duplicate the 60 gr. bullet.

Ken,

I'm planning on using my rifle in production class so not sure what the rules say about altering the throat. Also since I have a bullet that shoots under 2". An example..... Yesterday I was trying out four different powder charges, a 1/2 gr. apart, ended up with 1 5/8", 1 9/16", 1 13/16", & 1 3/8". Nothing spectacular but shows promise. So altering the rifle, even if allowed, I'd have to end up with something better than I have. I haven't seen anything from anyone saying that the 80 gr. bullet will be a world beater. From the little I've read on here it's still in the “Lets see what this puppy can do"stage. So....

Pete

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CBA President

John Alexander posted this 18 April 2015

I have never had a rifle that a nose that size would work in.

The production rules allow rethroating. The rule has this to say about the barrel.

"The barrel may be shortened only from the muzzle end to facilitate recrowning.The barrel's exterior may not be altered from factory specifications. The barrel must be chambered for its original cartridge and the chamber, including the neck, must conform to SAAMI specifications for the cartridge used. Non-SAAMI specification throating is allowed ahead of the chamber neck. Factory stock, action, trigger, and barrel, appropriate to the model,must be used”

Hunting Rifle class rules do not allow rethroating nor anything else except trigger adjustment and rebedding.

John

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Standard Member

OU812 posted this 18 April 2015

His mold may not be closing completely causing larger diameter. Check for small specs of lead between block halves. You should see no light when looking into bullet cavity with both halves closed.

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PETE posted this 18 April 2015

John,

The throat on my rfle is plenty long enuf. With the 60 gr. bullet the front driving band sticks out about 3/16” before being stopped by the lands.

OU812,

The mold blocks are lite tight.

Pete

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highstandard40 posted this 20 April 2015

gpidaho wrote: PETE: Buckshot over at boolits makes nose sizing dies. Lube sizing die with a Redding style bushing. Don't have one yet myself but have heard nothing but great reviews. GP I have one of these and it works very well.

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PETE posted this 20 April 2015

Highstandard40, Thanks for the reply. I think I've figured out a way to do it. But will keep him in mind. One question? Considering the size of the tools needed can he handle making a nose sizer in the .219/220” range? Pete

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Standard Member

highstandard40 posted this 20 April 2015

Buckshot makes a die body that fits into a Lyman or RCBS lubrisizer. This die body then accepts any size Redding or RCBS Neck sizer die bushing such as this. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/161733/redding-neck-sizer-die-bushing-219-diameter-steel?cm_vc=ProductFinding>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/161733/redding-neck-sizer-die-bushing-219-diameter-steel?cmvc=ProductFinding All you need is the one Buckshot die body and then you can buy separately any size bushing you need for the 22 bore or what ever other needs you may have. I have bushings for mine for 22, 7mm, 30, and 35 calibers. Not all firearms of the same caliber have the same bore diameters. In the 22 bore I have .218” and .219” and in 7MM I have .277” and .276". My 30s take a .300” and my 35s take a .350"

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Standard Member

PETE posted this 20 April 2015

highstandard40,

I kinda get the drift of what your saying. I like the idea I can order any size sizing die.

But I don't understand how the drive bands are held in alignment with the nose? Hard telling how cockeyed they'd end up if not held in alignment.

You got a picture you could post that shows how this all works? If not you got buckshots email address so I can talk direct with him?

Pete

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Standard Member

highstandard40 posted this 20 April 2015

That's a good question Pete and I do see your line of thinking. But let's apply that same logic to sizing the body bands of a bullet in a Lyman or RCBS lubrisizer. Wouldn't the same concern apply? How can you be certain that the body is being sized concentric with the nose? Compared to the nose sizer it's the same issue in reverse. But in real life application, I have not experienced any issues. My first efforts at nose sizing were with an RCBS 7MM Sil 145 gr. As dropped from the mold, I was getting .279” noses measured at the mold seam and slightly less diameter at 90 degrees. I ran those nose first into a .277” die and the results were first rate. In my XP100 7TCU I can get sub MOA groups when I do my part.