Popgun Plinking

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CB posted this 09 July 2007

I did a little popgun plinking this past weekend with my Ruger 30 Carbine. I followed Ed Harris's advice and made some 32 cal bullets and loaded it at a nice light comfortable gallery load of 4.0 grs. of Trailboss.

What a pleasure this was to shoot! I had a blast!

The same gun with a standard 30 Carb load was almost obnoxious after 5 rounds.

I can see why folks like the 32 popguns so much, in fact I want one now.

Another else have a favorite popgun load?

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RicinYakima posted this 09 July 2007

Lyman 311492, 98 grains WC, seated flush in any of the 32's over 2.0 grains of Bullseye. No ear muffs and hit the ends of soda cans at 25 feet all day long! Ric

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Ed Harris posted this 07 September 2007

In .32 ACP either 94-gr. Meister LFN, RCBS 32-98SWC or Saeco #325 SWC, use lightest load which will function, In my Beretta thats 1.5 grs. Bullseye, like .30 cal. CB caps, drops the cases right at your feet. Slow load smacks, tears and bounces the tin cans much better than faster loads which zip easily through and perforate the dirt on the far side. No slouch as small game load either.

In the .32 S&W Long the same powder puff 1.5 grain load with any of the above bullets is a good low-noise plinker either in my Rook rifle or the S&W .32 Hand Ejector. Use these in the basement in an ordinary Outers .22 rimfire bullet trap, bullet smnacking the steel makes more noise than the gun going off.

It's fun to compare the reloading cost of the .32s with larger calibers such as the .38 Special, or with .22 LR ammunition.

Current (9/7/2007) retail price at Midway for Alliant Bullseye is $14.99 per pound. At 7000 grains per pound the powder cost per thousand rounds of .38 Special at 3.5 grains per pop is $7.50, for .32 Longs at 2.0 grains $4.30 per pop and .32 ACP at 1.5 grains $3.22 per pop.

If you buy your primers by the case of 5000, average cost if $105 per case plus $20 hazmat fee and typically $10 shipping which brings primer cost per thousand to $29

If you buy the cheapest lead bullets out there, Hornady 90-gr. SWCs for the .32s are $44 per thousand. They are good bullets for light loads and so cheap that it hardly pays to cast unless you have a free source of lead and just enjoy doing it.

In the .38 Special the Remington .358” diameter 158-gr. SWCs shoot really well and at $47 per thousand are also cheap enough that it hardly pays to cast.

Assuming you enjoy reloading for its own sake and you don't put a value on your time, component cost per thousand rounds of .32 S&W Longs at 2 grains of Bullseye works out to:

Powder $4.30 Primers $29.00 Bullets $44.00 Total $77.30

Doing the same exercise on .38 Specials using Remington 158-gr. SWCs with 3.5 grs. of Bullseye you get:

Powder $ 7.50 Primers $29.00 Bullets $47.00 Total $83.50

Compare to the current cost per thousand of typical .22 rimfire ammunition:

CCI Blazer(the cheapest) $31 CCI Mini-Mag HighVelocity $50 CCI Standard Velocity $53 CCI Green Tag Match $101 Eley Standard $91 Eley Tenex $330

So getting the cheapest plinking grade .22 ammo is cheaper than reloading, but if you are concerned about accuracy, my .32 S&W Long and .38 Special target revolvers are less expensive to shoot with good reloads indoors at 25 yards than it is to buy quality .22 rimfire ammo which groups an inch or under at 25 yards from a target revolver.

Your mileage may vary, but this is a good benchmark.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 07 September 2007

Ed,

I guess I am just really cheap or the reloading and casting is too much relaxation.

In my shop, all alone, classical music tapes in the cassette, no electronic leashes (pagers, cell phones, etc.) there is enjoyment is just making the best ammo I can make.

Projects going on right now: 32/20 in the Dan Wesson revolver, 455 Mk 1 cases vs Mk IV cases, quiet loads for the 357 Martini and match loads for the Mosin Nugant 28/30 for next years CBA military matches.

My time on earth is getting shorter, so the reloading shop time is better than working to make money to buy ammo or components.

Best wishes, Ric

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Ed Harris posted this 28 September 2007

Ric,

I envy your position and hope to be likewise in a few years. Unfortunately right now time is money, so I have to make choices. Buying .32 and .38 bullets that work well and are cheap enough enables me to use my limited time and lead supplies to cast the .44s and .45s which are too expensive to buy and costly to ship.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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delmarskid1 posted this 22 October 2007

I used to turn the Lee 120c around like a wadcutter and load it over 5g of unique in the 30-30. It shot great and acted like a 32-20.

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454PB posted this 22 October 2007

I acquired a Lyman 311359 DC mould (115 gr. G.C. spire point) in a trade. How would this bullet work in a .30 carbine revolver?

When I started handloading, primers were $3.50 a brick, powder was $2.99 a pound, and gas checks were $4.99 per thousand for my .44's. Of course I was earning $250 a month, so I guess it all works out in the end.

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Ed Harris posted this 22 October 2007

The #311359 will work just fine in the .30 carbine, either GI M1 or the Ruger revolver. For a revolver plinking load I'd try it with either 3.5 grs. of Bullseye, 4 grs. of 231 4.5 grs. of Unique or 5 grs. of Herco, without the GC. In the GI carbine it will probably take 5 grs. of Unique or 6 grs. of Herco to cycle and it will require a GC.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 23 October 2007

I intend to try light cast loads, with and without gas check in my GI M1 carbine. Will they plug up the gas port and other parts and if so what is the best way to clean things up. The gun is absolutly reliable with GI or equivalent jacketed handloads and I would like to keep it that way.

John

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Ed Harris posted this 23 October 2007

John,

I shot thousands of rounds of cast in my GI carbine years ago with never a problem. Stick to the lightest loads which function reliably. I always looked at the carbine as a semi-auto .32-20 and loaded it that way using mostly the 311410 and 311359 with Unique powder.

The carbine gas port is located close to the breech, so the port pressure is high enough to keep the opening clear. However, if your loads are too hot so that it causes bore leading you will also get some leading deposits in the gas piston. If functioning gets sluggish shooting a magazine of full GI ammo generally should knock everything loose and make things happy again. If you have a piston nut wrench you can disassemble for cleaning if it becomes necessary, but this is unlikely. You want to avoid any oil or solvent getting into the gas piston, as it tends to gum up and make things worse. Dry graphite or MoS2 is OK for coating parts when you disassemble, clean, degrease and re-assemble.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 25 October 2007

Thanks Ed. Guess I will go ahead and see how it shoots CBs. I will also be on the lookout for a piston nut wrench. John

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Ed Harris posted this 08 November 2007

John,

Any update on the Carbine's cast loads? Pls. post some pictures!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Russ posted this 10 November 2007

Have been trying Trail Boss as a primary powder in 32-20, trying to fill the case up to the base of the bullet, seems to give more cosistant velocities and smaller groups. Using lyman 311316 from W/W and sized .312 with g/c in colt Bisley 71/2 in. and colt Army Special 6 in. Looks promising, was never satisfied with b'eye and unique as the charges were small and ran away from the primer unless revolver was tipped back vertical after every shot. I'm up to 3.5 gr. of Trail Boss with all good indicators. More later!

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CB posted this 11 November 2007

I tried Trail Boss in my Ruger 30 Carbine pistol, the problem I had was with my Dillon 550, the powder funnel hole is so small it would miss a charge every now and then and double one the same... Went to using bullseye around 4.0 gr and it works fine, shoots well also. I guess I need to work on the powder funnel on that press..

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Russ posted this 11 November 2007

I found that TB is so light and fluffy that it doesn't gravitate thru powder measures. I ended up drafting a calibration chart of the Lee dippers, that way I could inspect each charge prior to dumping in funnel.

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CB posted this 12 November 2007

I just visited down at Dillons plant and they told me to get a taper reamer and open it uo some..

I have no problem dropping it from a uniflow.. I love the powder for target loads in my 45ACP and 38SPC..

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Molly posted this 12 November 2007

RicinYakima wrote: Projects going on right now: ... quiet loads for the 357 Martini ... Hi Ric,

Hadn't tried this thread before, and hope you get this.  I used to have a sweet little .357 Martini (wish I still did!), and for some reason I decided to see just how quiet a load I could make up for it.  I started out as you would expect, with less and less powder (bullseye) under 358429 until the bullet stuck.  But every shot made a 'BANG', not the 'snap' I was looking for, so I went to a lighter bullet to reduce the pressure.  That helped, so I kept dropping the bullet weight until I was using a single '000' buckshot.  Still got a 'bang'.  Now I was determined to find a minimum load, so I started pressing the buckshot further down in the case, and cutting the powder charge even further.  Results kept improving, and I kept dropping the load.

I found out that you can push a good thing too far.  When I got down to a quarter grain of Bullseye under a '000' that was pressed tight to the bottom of the case, the report changed from a fairly mild 'pow' to a rather disconcerting 'Thooiinngggg', much like I'd smacked a spring that was held in the vice, or popped the cork from a bottle.  I checked the bore, but it was clear.

Thoing?? I never had a gun do that before.  I loaded it again.  Got the same thing. Loaded up a bunch of them. Great fun, but the odd report drove me nuts until I FINALLY figured out what it had to be.  I really think that the miniscule pinch of Bullseye combined with the force of the primer and the really minimal case capacity (when loaded that way) was just enough to give the buckshot a sharp push that carried it out of the bore, but it WASN'T enough to fill the bore with gas.  So as the buckshot coasted down the barrel, the pressure began to drop off until it was actually drawing a slight vacuume.  When the buckshot cleared the muzzle, air rushed in to fill the bore, and bounced off of the breech end.  Air being rather elastic, the bounce effect created the 'thoing' sound.

This account is all quite true, but it did have unintended consequences.  I am probably the only man alive who has shot a load that (ahem!) REALLY s u c k e d.  .>

(I will now fade quietly away ... (VBG))

Molly

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 12 November 2007

Hey Molly .. you need to repost this about 1 april 08 .....

ken campbell

pop gun my arse

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Molly posted this 12 November 2007

Ken Campbell, Iowa wrote: Hey Molly .. you need to repost this about 1 april 08 .....

ken campbell

pop gun my arse

Well, that wouldn't be entirely appropriate Ken.  You see, while I think it's ROFLMAO funny, it's not a joke.  It's exactly what happened, the unvarnished facts.

I really HAVE done just about everything wrong that it's possible to do, and somehow survived.  Sometimes it was due to ignorance, and sometimes it was due to orneriness.  Have I ever related that while hundreds of thousands of men have fired 30-06 ammo, I'm also probably the only man alive who has SHOT 30-06 ammo?  Way back before 577/450 cases were so easily available, I was forming some cases for one, and noticed how big the fireformed case mouth was.  Just out of curiosity, I picked up a 30-06 round and by golly, it would drop right inside!

I was much younger and less cautious, and a big grin spread across my face.  I knew I wouldn't hit anything, but I wanted to say I'd done it:  I loaded the 577/450 case with a pop load of FFg and inserted the 30-06 round.  Crimping united them into one 'double load'.  Next trip to the range, and it went downrange.  Rather uneventfully, but unless someone reads this and duplicates it (I really don't recommend it.), then I can still claim a very high probablilty of being the only living man who has shot a 30-06 round downrange.  Not just the bullet.  The entire loaded round!  (VBG) .>

Molly

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RicinYakima posted this 18 November 2007

Hi Molly, it took a while for me to find this post, but got here eventually. I enjoy my 357 Martini, but it is very sensitive on bullet weight and point of aim vs. point of impact. So my quite load has to be about 160 to 200 grains to keep within the range of scope adjustments at 50 yards. POA compared to POI varies over three feet vertically between the 125 WC and the 200 grain RCBS with them both at about 600 f/s. Today I hope to test the 200 grain Lyman 358420 with 3.0 grains of 700X. I was given 4 pounds of that and I am out of Bullseye, and can't buy any more right now. I'll have to see if my “non-sucking” load is quite enough for my needs.

Picture is as I was finishing the butt stock, my first made from a blank. Ric

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Molly posted this 18 November 2007

Pretty nice job, Rick. But you shouldn't broadcast it too much. That's what I did when younger. Then a buddy wanted me to work on his, then someone else, and nest thing you know, you'll have to get an FFL. Once you reach that point, there's little hope for you. (VBG) Regards, Molly

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