Hunting with no-lead bullet?

  • 3.7K Views
  • Last Post 15 December 2015
tturner53 posted this 18 June 2015

I lucked out and was drawn for a special late season muzzle loaders only hunt in Ventura County, Ca. It's in the so-called “Condor Zone” so unleaded is the rule. I already know how stupid the law is so please don't remind me how dumb it can get here. I would like some advice re. copper or other legal bullets that you've tried in your muzzle loader. I'd prefer to use one of my traditional round ball guns but do have a TC White Mountain Carbine .54 and a .50 New Englander. Both have 48” twists, I think. I bought an in-line out of curiosity and a surplus of 209 primers but I consider it a last ditch option. Been there done that? Too long no venison for me.  It's time.

Attached Files

Order By: Standard | Newest | Votes
mckg posted this 18 June 2015

No personal experience, but I would try to cast zinc RB's (without the sprue plate as it is said you need to enlarge their holes for zinc). Have you already tried sabots in your guns? Has anybody tried bearing balls in sabots?

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 18 June 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_user.php?id=2514>tturner53

Consider using the bullet molds you already have for those rifles and casting with the lead free bullet casting alloy from Rotometals. Some molds should work pretty well. Lead free: http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/leadfreebulletalloy.htm

Also consider using a sabot and a non lead 45 cal pistol bullet. My favorite 50 cal ribbed sabots : http://www.midwayusa.com/product/448726/harvester-muzzleloading-50-caliber-crushed-rib-sabot-for-45-caliber-bullets-pack-of-50

45 cal pistol bullet molds used with the Rotometals lead free bullet alloy and those bullets in a ribbed sabot could be an easy solution for you that isn't a fortune for your 50 cal muzzleloader.

Gary

Attached Files

JeffinNZ posted this 18 June 2015

The lead free casting alloy is $20lb!:shock::shock:

Cheers from New Zealand

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 18 June 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_user.php?id=2514>tturner53

One pound will cast about 30+ - 240 gr 45 cal pistol bullets with the no lead alloy. That is a viable choice in my opinion, compared to commercial no lead bullets. I use a 200 gr cast bullet in a 50 cal. sabot and the Lee 452-200 RF mold for that one would cast 35+ bullets per lb.

I would consider that 200 gr mold and sabots if I was legislated out of using lead bullets in a muzzle-loader for hunting. A 200 gr bullet in a sabot for 50 cal ML is not a light bullet and can be loaded to very high velocity. Alliant's recommended volume load of 90 gr Alliant Black MZ replica powder for a bullet that weight would take charge of the challenge very well. And, it shoots cleaner than anything else in a ML rifle.

The 2 cavity 200 gr Lee mold is $20.99 and available now at MidwayUSA:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/789762/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-452-200-rf-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-200-grain-flat-nose?cm_vc=ProductFinding>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/789762/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-452-200-rf-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-200-grain-flat-nose?cmvc=ProductFinding

It has a nice flat nose for a hunting bullet. The 1:48 twist in your rifle is very well matched to a 200 gr bullet. I'd predict a no problem easy start with that Lee bullet in the no lead alloy, the ribbed sabot and 75-90 gr Allaint BMZ. Somewhere in there will get you 1"@50yard groups and the ribbed sabots are significantly easier to load than smooth sabots. It might be a lot of changes for you, but I would jump right in, get everything new to comply with the law and start shooting. For me, the Alliant BMZ has completely changed my entire prospective on clean muzzle-loading shooting and seriously increased the fun factor and the accuracy factor.

Gary

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
admiral posted this 22 June 2015

ballisticproducts.com sells the non-toxic ITX roundballs

Attached Files

358156hp posted this 23 June 2015

Food Service pewter would give you a non-toxic ball too, but the weight would be lighter than you're accustomed to. For that matter, you may be able to score some lead-free solder at the hardware store to experiment with too.

Attached Files

tturner53 posted this 23 June 2015

Thanks to all for the help. I'll try some of these ideas.

Attached Files

TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 23 June 2015

358156hp wrote: Food Service pewter would give you a non-toxic ball too, but the weight would be lighter than you're accustomed to. For that matter, you may be able to score some lead-free solder at the hardware store to experiment with too.

Pewter is largely tin with a little antimony and/or copper.

Casts PERFECT bullets in COLD moulds.

Cools VERY slowly compared to lead-tin alloys.

 

Attached Files

tturner53 posted this 12 December 2015

A quick follow up; I took the coward's way out and went with the Barnes all copper MX Expander. It's a 275 gr hp in a plastic sabot. They are a b-i-z-i-t-c-h to load, requiring serious pressure to get seated, in a clean bore. Forget a second shot without cleaning. This in my TC White Mountain Carbine .54.   I did buy an ingot of the no-lead from RotoMetals but never even cast any.  No time. It's a little sucker and would require a special setup to melt cleanly. The law here requires a state certified projectile. I hunted about 50 miles from the condors in an area with no deer but plenty lions. The antis have locked up the national forest with their rules. So, no venison this year. On a side note, twice I got the flu, once per hunt. Dumb luck I guess.  I'm about ready to do a pay to hunt pig trip. Gotta shoot something.

Attached Files

onondaga posted this 13 December 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_user.php?id=2514>tturner53

If your state requires a state certified no-lead projectile and does not allow you to cast projectiles in a certified no lead alloy to comply with the regulation, you lose and very wrongly so. I suggest you openly defy the regulation and shoot whatever you like or get the hell out of California, they are manipulating and screwing you over to fit a hoax anti-gun philosophy that violates your rights as an American.

Does the elected Sheriff in your County actually enforce that crap? You should ask him and point out how it violates your rights as an American. All of the Sheriffs in the 8 Western New York Counties where I live openly refuse to enforce the New York S.A.F.E. Act. You would actually be better off near me in WNY.

Are there no gun rights activist attorneys in California? The group of them here has dared Gov. Cuomo to try and enforce the S.A.F.E. Act. It has only been enforced once here when a minor violation (magazine capacity) was committed by someone that blatantly lied on a registration. All arms and magazines were eventually returned to the man anyway and the stinking Governor apologized to him. If the state takes your arms for using lead bullets, get a New York gun rights attorney and you can easily sew California homeless for violating your rights. There is plenty of precedent in the court records.

Your state is counting on you NOT to fight illegal anti-gun laws. Screw them and fight. I'd be shooting those ugly Condors intentionally if they pulled that on me. Dominion over the animal kingdom is given to you in Genesis, the State of California does not supersede Genesis. Go shoot a Condor with a lead bullet. Condors are less beneficial to man than Woodchucks.

New York has big ugly prehistoric looking birds called Turkey Buzzards. We just shoot them because they are as ugly as Snapping Turtles with wings.

Gary

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
tturner53 posted this 14 December 2015

Wow! Thanks for the support! I agree. Here the fight is not about what's right or legal. It's what can you pull off. We fight, believe me. Through our CRPA, NRA, and lobbyists. It's a numbers game. The sherriff in my county is aces. A big win and in the capital! But, no politics here. The hunting in Ventura is a farce. No shooting period in any area that's remotely decent. It's rigged. Keep an eye on your USFS people. They've been compromised.

Attached Files

Brodie posted this 14 December 2015

Two years ago I had to listen to a harangue by a USFS employee about lead having contaminated a cinder pit where we were shooting.  I tried to explain to the idiot that the very asphalt roads he was complaining about the “contaminated” cinders (with lead bullets) that  could not be put on were in fact ILLEGAL TOXIC WASTE DUMPS because of the heavy metals concentrated in the asphalt the roads were made of.  He looked at me like I was crazy. I guess to him --who had spent his working life spouting the flavor of the year-- I probably was.  For to question the word from above would undoubtedly have ruined his career if not his working life. 

The fish rots from the head down.  At least it does in any political or corporate endeavor.  If you have junk at the top you are going to have nothing but rot in the body. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

Attached Files

jeff houck posted this 14 December 2015

Why was the cinder pit contaminated?

Attached Files

Brodie posted this 15 December 2015

The cinder pit was judged “contaminated” because people had shot there using lead bullets or jacketed bullets containing lead.  I personally have no use for individuals who WILL NOT THINK they are fool who blindly follow other fools or just those with an agenda.  Brodie

B.E.Brickey

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
RicinYakima posted this 15 December 2015

All materials that were used for road surface or barrow pits where contaminated from tetra-ethyl-lead used in gasoline from 1927 until unleaded motor fuel was required. Here in the PNW most of that material is just ground up and reused, so it still tests positive for lead.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
tturner53 posted this 15 December 2015

Old Coot wrote: The cinder pit was judged “contaminated” because people had shot there using lead bullets or jacketed bullets containing lead.  I personally have no use for individuals who WILL NOT THINK they are fool who blindly follow other fools or just those with an agenda.  Brodie Bingo! The lead issue is a front. A tool to use against hunters/shooters. Science is irrelevant.

Attached Files

  • Liked by
  • M3 Mitch
Close