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pondercat posted this 21 July 2015

Hi,  I'm new to the forum but not casting. I live just outside Flagstaff Arizona and have for 30+ years.  I've been casting bullets for about twenty years, but always find I still have much to learn!!!  I am currently venturing into (well trying to venture into) the very fine art of paper patching.  My first few attempts were somewhat dismal at best, but I am starting to achieve at least some still limited, but positive results.  I cast and shoot several calibers (pistol and rifle) from .270 through 50 caliber BP and have just ordered a mold and sizing dies for a 55 grain .22 caliber to push through my .22-250. I have not cast for a caliber this small, but good results with the .270 has prompted me to go smaller.  I am looking forward to picking some of your brains for info on casting/shooting it.  Small does seem to have its own unique set of challenges that must be overcome!  Once I start shooting cast out of that gun, I can safely say, with the exception of my .22 long rifles, that I cast for everything I shoot (which is a lot) and will have liberated myself from the need for store-bought jacketed bullets.  I hope everyone here is well and I hope I have some knowledge that I can contribute. CHEERS!!! :D

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mckg posted this 21 July 2015

Welcome aboard pondercat!

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muley posted this 21 July 2015

Welcome aboard Pondercat. being u are fairly close to the NRA Whittington Ctr, come on

over Sept. 10-13 2015 to the Coors Range and shoot with us, or come and talk with the

shooters and pick their minds. they are a good group.  bring that .270 and shoot in the

Hunting rifle class.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 21 July 2015

great to see another caster taking up the small bore ...and specifically 22 cal. ... challenge .... check out the previous several threads on this here in the archives ( you can search ) ...

i might mention that while we small bore casters are frustrated with our 2 to 3 moa 22 groups .... egged on because john alexander regularly shoots 1 moa or less with a lightweight sporter ..... we should note that according to match reports in the cba _ fouling shot _ most all reported groups in all classes and calibers are close to the same 2 or 3 moa .... especially those from factory rifles ...

so it is not clear that the small bores are actually harder to get that 2 or 3 moa from .... maybe the aggravation comes because most 22 or 6mm will shoot jakktd bullets easily into well under 1 moa ...

just some thoughts; please report your progress with your cast shooting ... sometimes even horrible results can be instructive ... or at least entertaining ... heh

ken

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pondercat posted this 22 July 2015

Would genuinely love to attend the Coors range, work, school, and family obligations severely limit that possibility.  Thanks for the invite though and thanks for the welcome! Looking forward to what I can learn here.  That .270 is OK. My very best groups with it have been about 1 1/2 MOA, but usually 2 MOA or more.  It is encouraging though. Personally, I think my loads are more accurate than I am.  I also cast a 170 grain 8mm I shoot through a '98 Mauser that hits at 2 1/2 MOA @ 100 yds no matter what I do to it.  Hoping that learning to paper patch well will improve those numbers on both guns.   I also shoot cast through  a Blackhawk .357 mag /.356 GNR, 44 mag pistol and rifle, 45 colt pistol and rifle, 30-30 handi-rifle and .41 mag pistol and rifle. I haven't really shot much through that handi, but it looks promising. Looks like I need to get a .357 rifle to balance things out. 

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pondercat posted this 22 July 2015

Hi Ken.  Glad to meet you.  Yes I've been kind of leery about casting for .22 but I figure I'm casting for everything else I own, including buckshot for my shotguns, so I might as well jump all the way in.  Frustration just comes with the territory so I am ready for that.  My mold should arrive day after tomorrow and I'll throw some hardcast from WWs to start.  Any advice on a better alloy for that caliber? Velocity to approach? Best powders? Are there any special sizing or lube requirements for small bore that differ from shooting bigger calibers?  Any info would be a great help!  Also I'm glad you told me about those group sizes.  Makes me feel like I'm at least in the ballpark with what I've been doing so far.  I'm hoping that my 22-250 will do well.  It is a custom rifle my wife gave me for an anniversary present about 25 years ago.  It is built on a Springfield action with an Ace barrel made in Montana I think. With a fully bedded action and floated barrel it is a tack driver with good jacketed bullets.  It likes those in the neighborhood of 52 - 60 grains so I figured a 55 grain mold would be a good starting point.   As far as horrible results being entertaining. . .by that standard I have to be the entertainment king.  But in all honesty I seem to learn more from things that go wrong than things that go right! Happy shooting!

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pondercat posted this 22 July 2015

Thanks for the welcome.  I'm glad to be here!

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John Alexander posted this 22 July 2015

Welcome pondercat,

I wrote a welcome post and some comments earlier but my computer is neurotic (maybe it's the operator)and the post is apparently still floating around in cyberspace.  I mention it because if two posts from me turn up I didn't want folks to take it as confirmation that I had lost it.

To answer your original post about the the 13” twist stabilizing your 55 grain bullet --  it should stabilize it with room to spare unless it is a very long pointy 55 bullet and it might even then.

You should be congratulated for the groups you are getting with the 270 and 8mm. An honest average for 5 shot groups of 2” from a hunting rifle is quite good as well as all you need for almost any practical use.  I just read a test on the new budget Winchester bolt action in Shooting Times and the average for 3 shot groups  was barely under 2".  That translates to about 2.6 for jacketed bullets and presumably by someone who can shoot.  It is a lot easier to only remember the good groups and talk about one minute of angle groups than actually AVERAGE that with a factory hunting rifle.

I would recommend that for the 22 you use a softer alloy --  Lyman #2 or softer. Unhardened wheelwright of about 11-12 BHN often work well. Don't try to set any speed records at least at first.  Shoot for 1,400 to 1,600 fps first and work up later if you need it.  I often get good results with the fast burning powders.  I am using TiteGroup right now but have had good results with Bullseye, 700X, Blue Dot, and 2400.    Keep us informed of your progress.

John

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pondercat posted this 23 July 2015

John Alexander wrote: Welcome pondercat,

I would recommend that for the 22 you use a softer alloy --  Lyman #2 or softer. Unhardened wheelwright of about 11-12 BHN often work well. Don't try to set any speed records at least at first.  Shoot for 1,400 to 1,600 fps first and work up later if you need it.  I often get good results with the fast burning powders.  I am using TiteGroup right now but have had good results with Bullseye, 700X, Blue Dot, and 2400.    Keep us informed of your progress.

John Thanks for the Info.  I have on hand Bullseye, Blue Dot and 2400 but no 700X or Titegroup.  I'm good to start with the powders on hand.  As far as speed goes, I keep velocities on the 270 and 8mm, actually all my rifles below 1800 fps.  I tend to have fewer problems and better accuracy at the lower speeds. It was tough getting any accuracy with the 270 till I finally got it through my head to slow it down. Its an older Vanguard ( my wife's gun actually but she lets me play with it) and has always been an accurate rifle so it really bothered me that I could not persuade it to shoot straight with lead bullets and I got pretty neurotic about it for a while. I think in good hands it might be capable of sub MOA.  The 8mm though just shoots the way it does. I only have the one bullet mold and it likes it fine, but I cannot get it to shoot below that 2 1/2 inch threshold it seems to have set for itself.   I am getting kind of antsy waiting on the .22 mold to show up.  Hoping it will be here tomorrow or next day.  Thanks for the info.  Terry

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