30cal/300gr sub loads

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  • Last Post 04 October 2015
EvanGuy posted this 03 August 2015

Hi, I'm new to this site, I'm also new to reloading, I'm a machinist by trade and love making everything i can for projects i get involved in. most times i try and make too much of my projects and get over whelmed. i hope this doesn't happen in this case. well i have some questions about the load I'm making and the bullets I'm casting and my practices. I'm new to this and i feel i may be in over my head, seemed easy enough until i started looking into it, and now I'm realizing i have lots to learn, every question i ask my self i google it and that opens up hundreds more questions.

first off, ill tell you what I'm doing (sorry for the wall of text ill try to keep it short) i have a few 303's one is a lithgow 1917 no1mk3 and a 1911 no1mk3 parker hail custom #1, i love the PH and the lithgow has a heavy duty barrel factory fitted to it. i also have a 1918 no1mk3 .22 trainer but thats a different story

i want to shoot my 303 ALOT more often and while it is legal for me to shoot all day in my yard, i feel bad for my neighbors, while i cant see their houses from my house i know they can here a center fire going off.

so I'm very interested in reduced loads, i bought some h4895 and loaded 123 surplus ammo with 27 gr as per their website, it was nice to shoot but loud and alot more then i needed to plinking and keeping critters off my farm, realistically a 9mm,45,357,44,410 in a rifle would be nice but i don't have one Nor the money. and my .22 cooey 39 just doesn't cut it, while i love shooting it i need a little more kick and impact.

first i filled 5 303 cases with lead and drilled them out 25mm deep with a 7.9mm drill to make .32H&R mag cases for my 303, i used 90gr lead cast bullets i cast and used the load data for my pistol power i have W231 so 3.4gr and i was a great round to shoot however i like the idea of heavy slow moving bullets from this gun, more of a lobber

so from that i made new molds for 288gr bullets

as of now I'm loading 288 gr/ pure lead/35mm long/ .314 dia/ unsized/rubbed with candle wax lube bullets from neck sized 303 cases with 3.0gr w231, I'm not sure of the velocity's I'm assuming around 900, seems as fast as a 22 short getting to my 100 yard mark.

now the questions, so i guess ill just number them to make it easier for one to reply to any of them with out quoting it.

#1 bullet depth, as of now i have them deep in the case this was to pull it off the rifling to reduce pressure with my unknown load and also to reduce case capacity since i have 3gr of fine ball powder. but more then half the bullet is in side the case, about 10mm lower then the bottle neck starts. I'm thinking i should reduce the first 10mm of the bullet dia to .300 so i can seat the bullet about .350 into the case and still not have the bullet touching rifling.

#2 double charge, while most sites i see people post that 6-12gr of various powders can be used in these loads where I'm loading only 3 gr (plan to work up to 1050fps) if i was to double charge in theory still well within the suggested limits of the powder. is this true? its also a 288gr bullet soft but lots of bearing area

#3 the power is great, i have added pics of the bullets i have retrieved from various items ill put a caption when the pics up. so I'm thinking if i get to 1050fps with only 3.5gr i wont need any more powder. unless I'm missing something, i read less powder is some times more dangerous, is that just slower powders or all?

#4 bullet weight/design, if I'm firing a heavy bullet for the caliper and also a large bearing area, there is going to be large pressures built up? also I'm wondering if i redesign the bullet to have 50% reduced bearing area will that help a lot or can i continue shooting the simple cast bullets as they are. i have a bottle of alox now to put on instead of the candle wax.

#4 leading, it seems i have fired about 80 rounds of varying gr bullets 90-288 and different amounts of powder 2.0-4.0gr, i just rub the candle on the warm bullets and they get a thin coating of wax, i have no leading or build up, is this something that happens after thousand shots or am i firing them slow enough they don't leave any behind.

5 honing the load, so I'm looking to get to 1000-1100 fps with a 288gr bullet, that's about 665fpe, seems exactly what i want, I'm not sure if i under stand the relationship between the heavy bullet and the little powder I'm using, am i able to just work up the load to get desired fps if there are no pressure signs, also what would the max powder be with my given weight bullet, i read a normal weight bullet for the cal should be close to 10gr w231.

thanks for taking the time to read that. i promise all other info added with be smaller posts

(right to left, 1,2,3,4,) all 35mm 288gr bullets 1- unfired 2- fired into the end of a softwood log (made it 12"deep) 3- fired into the end of a dried ash log (made it 3” deep. you can see where i hit a bullet with another one) 4- fired into a price of 1” lexan, bullet went from 35mm to 7.9mm long still weights 18.70g (288gr)

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delmarskid1 posted this 04 August 2015

It sure is nice to see someone do something different.

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onondaga posted this 04 August 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=9178>EvanGuy  I don't see any blatant safety problem with your approach except the propellant you are using. There is also a very real danger that too light of  a charge with W231  will allow the bullet to get stuck in the bore causing an explosion on the next shot. Hodgdon advises that H4895 can be loaded down to 50% available case capacity in the .303Brit with no ignition problems.

Consider getting some Hodgdon Titegroup  as new loads with it are popping up all over the place for it,  from Hodgdon and from loaders because it has such excellent ignition in large cases with  small charges.

Lee makes molds for 303Brit and 32 cal pistol molds that also fit the .303 with little or no sizing.

Low pressure/subsonic loads work well with soft pure lead and no lube at all.. I use a tumble lube for all my cast bullets from subsonic to full loads.

Your bullets have visible cold chill wrinkles. Pure lead generally needs 800+ degrees to get good fillout of the mold. 1% Tin added would also make a big improvement in fillout and won't harden the metal.

My favorite squirrel and pest load uses a 32 cal Lee pistol bullet, the TL 314-90-SWC in my 7.62X39 single shot break open Remington Spartan rifle with 2.9 gr Titegroup and easily groups under 1” at 50 yards with velocity at 1160 fps. That 90 grain Lee bullet will work well in the 303Brit with no sizing and 5-8 grains of Titegroup.

My loads with the Lee 90 gr SWC:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/115225/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-tl314-90-swc-32-20-wcf-32-s-and-w-long-32-colt-new-police-314-diameter-90-grain-tumble-lube-semi-wadcutter>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/115225/lee-2-cavity-bullet-mold-tl314-90-swc-32-20-wcf-32-s-and-w-long-32-colt-new-police-314-diameter-90-grain-tumble-lube-semi-wadcutter

I seat the base of these bullets 1 diameter deep into the case mouth.

Gary

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gpidaho posted this 04 August 2015

EvanGuy: Thanks for your post. as D's kid said, good to see someone doing something different. Along with Gary, I highly recommend TiteGroup. I've had great results with it in a wide variety of cals. 5-6grs. in 22-250 223 and 7-8gr. in 30,31 and 8mm. Give it a try, It's very useful in both handguns and rifles. Gp Oh, and welcome to the forum.

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EvanGuy posted this 04 August 2015

delmarskid1- Thanks I do like doing things differently, Ive been that way my whole life

Gary- thanks I'm glad to hear that, and as for the powder, i can only buy h4895 around here. Crazy i know. if i drive 3 hours(one way) i can go to Cabelas, and there i could get a better selection. i want to try titegroup and trailboss as well.

I got the w231 from my neighbor who uses it to reload his 9mm it was all he had and he gave it to me.

as for dangers using this powder, IF i was to check if the bore is clear before every shot, is this powder save to use? also i do plan on working the load up more so the chances will be less and less likely. like is the main danger more of user doing then powder itself (shooting the gun with a bullet stuck in barrel)

also would it be ideal for me to use one or two square inches of toilet paper to hold the powder closer to the primer, although it seems to be working fine as is and consistent

as for the h4895 i did load some 123fmj to the 40% case reduction as per their site, it was great but still a lot more then i had hoped. i haven't used it since i got the w231.

also the h4895 was 56$ for one pound so using 3gr per shot of a free powder seems alot better. ill save the h4895 for hunting season.

im glad to hear about the pure lead, i also have alox now im going to use on it anyway, also ill turn the temp up and add a bit of tin. im hear to learn thanks for that.

wow that looks like a lovely 7.62x39 load. i only have an sks chambered in that, i very much so dislike that gun, also i have a thing for single shot guns of all types. i would trade the sks any day for one. even my lee enfields i use without mags and hand feed them. i love the look of them 7.62x39 and they sound great(fps and gr). ill check that mold out for when i get tired of messing with my homemade ones and buy a real deal. i figure it will happen one day even if its just to compare.

im going to redesign my bullets so i can seat them only .312 in the case and still have them .060 off my riffling. pic will one.

gpidaho- thank you for your post actually, im going to try titegroup once this w231 runs out, also trailboss too.

thanks for the welcome, i hope to stick around, ive read LOADS of thread over the last few days, you people are the type of people i like, enjoys doing things your self's and trying new things,also you know “the best” isn't always the best or the most fun.

Thanks for the help so far guys.

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onondaga posted this 05 August 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=9178>EvanGuy

I have some experience using a ballistic filler with H4895 and IMR 7383 in 30-06 and with H LilGun in .500S&W rifle but little else . The filler I use is a lightweight hi heat plastic particulate filler called BPI Original filler. It is a recommended filler for reduced rifle loads and as a buckshot buffer.

I have also used Polyester fiber filler from the craft store sold as baby mattress padding . It is very cheap and lightweight also.  Tissue is mentioned by some members here but I haven't tried that. So, I couldn't advise on tissue.

When you get the Titegroup, it will not need a filler for ignition.

You can keep the safety issue with light loads in check with a bore check as you mention, but also be keenly aware of any shot that sounds different.

The Spartan I have in 7.62X39 is not an expensive rifle. It is a Russian rifle imported by Remington and I got it new with a scope for $200. Importation is spotty but they can be had in a variety of calibers They are made by Biakal in Russia and imported with that name too. They are sold in Russia as an inexpensive, built like a tank utility rifle for farmers. The Trigger pull was horrible and took a lot of work but the 24” chrome lined barrel with helical fluting really likes cast bullet shooting. The stock finish and stain was water soluble and I redid that too. Checkering was very rough and I re-cut that too. It is actually an up close beautiful rifle now. I used to do custom show stock finishing. My Spartan:

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EvanGuy posted this 06 August 2015

Thanks Ill read more into both of those fillers, but Im not even sure if they are needed in this application I'm having good results so far.

ill be paying attention to the sound and if the bullet leaves on every shot, better safe then sorry until i know for sure whats going to happen.

i love the sounds and looks of that rifle a lot, I'm going to look into getting one. yours looks great! also i seen pics of your dear loads in another thread i was reading today. they look very nice. i like work horses all dolled up,

here a pic of one of the rifles ill be firing my loads though, this is my 1911 PH lee enfield, its my favorite of all my rifles. the scope was mounted i took it off so its d&t for it, i have it back on now since the pic was taken. the other gun is a lithgow 1917 no1mk3, it has the heavy duty barrel and didn't come with any wood, so i made a rear stock out of maple but have yet to finish the front wood. i dont have ay pics online right now though.

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onondaga posted this 06 August 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=9178>EvanGuy

That 1911 Lee is a beauty.

Gary

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EvanGuy posted this 07 August 2015

Thanks i like it very much.

also has anyone every used or has pressuretraceII im thinking about getting it. i need a crony and that will be around 150$ and for 750 i get the pressuretrace and a croney that links to the system.

im interested in developing loads as well as honeing them, i feel being able to watch the pressure curve you can then change where peak pressure occurs  and how quick it comes on. and the effects of different pressure curves on bullet speed and accuracy

 also i would like to use the same powder weight and then ramp up the bullets from 90-200gr and graph the pressure curve and then over lap them and see the effects bullet weight has on pressure

also try testing how pulling the bullets off the lands effects and shorting the oal effects pressure  and really millions of other experiments that this could be VERY useful for if it works well.

 you will be able to watch and test soo much i feel.

its like an engine builder have a dyno in his shop. every little tweek you can see the exact changes as they occur

heres a link. its $550 for the kit without a crony or $750 for everything It just seems to good to be true i know ive spent a lot more on a lot less.

https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

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Ed Harris posted this 08 August 2015

Interesting thread. I've never tried a bullet that heavy in the .303 but have a 230-grain CBE mold from Australia which has done well in my Cdn. Long Branch No.4 with 12 grains of Alliant #2400 in standard, unmodified cases. The NOE clone of #314299 without the GC also shoots well with 12 grains of #2400 or 6 grains of Bullseye.

In the smaller cases with reduced capacity I've had best results using a compressed load with the slowest suitable powder. Accurate 31-134D in the .32 S&W Long with 6.3 grains of #2400, compressed, and steel frame .32 ACP with Accurate 31-087T and 5.6 grains of #2400 compressed at 0.96” OAL, turns a .32 ACP into a .380 equivalent, if fixed barrel steel frame Colt M1903, Beretta M1935, CZ27, but not for Kel-Tecs!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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EvanGuy posted this 10 August 2015

Thanks, I'm glad you find it interesting. right now I'm using unmodified cases and redesigning the bullet to be better load.

I've seen 247 grain whisper .311 bullets and wanted to test them but, I'm just trying to do it my self first, if i cant get it working well i may drop the bullet down to around 200gr    i figure ill have to up the powder charge a bit, i was at the range and at 100m its 36 inch drop over a factory winchester 303 load. loading .16g (2.46gr w231).

the only powder i can get is h4695, the W231 was from my neighbor, he was nice enough to give it to me. so thats all i have. but i do want to try titegroup, trailboss, and also bullseye (based off how much you speak of it)

the nearest store i can buy it is 3 hour (one way (like 200 miles each way lol)) ill make the trip one day. probably at the same time i buy the X-caliber.

also I feel the lee enfield is a pretty strong action compared to a pistol (i know they are not the strongest rifles actions) i may try your advice for the more powder, i only have w231 though, do you have any recommendations for using that powder, i notice with load data you use less w231 then unique.

when i buy new powder, not counting the w231 i want to get a few ranges a burn rate, I'm going to get a fast powder, such as mentioned above.  and i already have h4895 and like the load data i find for that i may try varget or bl-c2 as well for my slower powder

so I'm looking for a powder slower then ,trailboss, titegroup and bullseye but faster then h4895, varget, bl-c2.

 do you have a recommendation for a powder to buy for a mid burn powder. it will be used in the low capacity case loads. maybe #2400?

here is the redesign of my bullet, i hope it will weigh close to 275-300gr. it should be close to 280 i believe. any thoughts or opinions on it, i could use a little help, I'm shooting in the dark here, so to say)

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gpidaho posted this 10 August 2015

Pretty hard to go wrong with Unique, it will work in about anything when used in an appropriate amount. Gp

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EvanGuy posted this 10 August 2015

Thanks, its definitely on the list of powders to buy and try, along with quite a few others now..

so i made a single mold for the new bullet design, I like it a lot more it allows for the bullet to only be seated .350 deep and still not engaged the rifling(the bullet easily slides into the chamber and slides out but it does show rifling rubs on the .303 dia section). also the .303 section should support the front of the bullet and lets it stick out a lot farther.

i made a single mold to see how it works, it takes about 15 minutes a chamber and i did it on my lunch break so i didn't have a lot of time. it seems to be going well, ill shoot 25-50 of them and if they work good ill make a 10 cavity mold.

these bullets are 37mm long and weigh 276gr,

the round nose have an OAL of 70.5mm(2.775") the new design has an OAL of 84mm(3.307")

 the only part i don't like about this mold is that the base of the bullet well the first 22mm the .313 part is oval-ed  they go from .313 to.311 as you rotate them and check them with mics. I figure it should be alright and being pure lead it will just take shape of the barrel, my next venture will be to make a sizing die and press for it. .312 all the way around would be ideal.

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EvanGuy posted this 20 August 2015

So after that last design would only chamber in one of my 303's with out hitting the rifling and also getting 2 of 10 stuck in the barrel(using the same 2.5gr w213 as before), i decided i needed to change the bullet shape,

I reduced the amount length of area that is .313 dia by half, its now double the bore dia in length. witch in turn made the .303 bore riding section a lot longer. they are also 42mm long now and weigh 302,6gr, so one could say they weigh 303gr this is as big as I'm going to go, if i cant get these to work out well at targets up to 100m max ill reduce the weight to closer to 260 gr and try again.

I'm looking for the heaviest bullet that a lee enfield can fire and keep from key-holing at close to 1100fps and under 100m. so ill start at one that would satisfy my needs if it works and then work down if it doesn't.

the new design has a 90mm OAL when seated .320", it chambers into both my guns by starting the bullet into the chamber then tilting the gun down and letting it fall in, it feels the same as a factory winchester 180gr going into the chamber, also i need to hone out the new mold i made. its getting .309” on the .313” part and .301” on the .303” dia part

i also added a pic of the progress of my molds, it goes from the first one i made on the left to the newest on the right i still use the first two for casting 81-100gr bullets for my reduced case volume 303/.32h&rmag cases

i must say I'm having fun doing all this, I'm out of LRP right now so i cant test the newest bullets yet, soon.

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EvanGuy posted this 02 October 2015

so the updates on this are,

ive been butting a lot of this off until i get a croni, although i can tell you that 4-5gr of w321 under 90-300gr bullets seems to work well, but i want to know the speeds and i want to speed them up a bit. i would like to make a load that is 1000fps for all 5 of my bullet weights

ive made loads more molds since the other pics, i have probably 15 molds now. but the ones i'm using and making a load for are these sizes 94gr, 140gr, 197gr, 242gr and 305gr these all have the design like the bullets in the post above this one and most of it is bore riding but with about a 10mm driving band instead of the 16mm

ive been having a hard time keeping the bullets straight as a load them. im just using a lee loader/neck sizer type loading rig. and i find the bullets being sooooo long its hard to get them to seat straight. i find now they can be a few thou out after they are ready to fire and i have to roll the loaded round on a table and actually straighten the bullet other wise it wont chamber and ill see rifling marks on one side of the bullet. they are .302 die in this area.

ive made an extension with a reamed hole .314 in it for the top of the lee loader since it doesnt have near enough adjustment to seat these long bullets

i believe getting a reloading press will help a lot, since as i hammer/tap the bullets in they want to swell a bit causing they to get harder to seat. again adding t my problem. i read that a heavy slow moving weight is better then a hammer hit when seating them so a press would be ideal i think.

also hardening the lead from pure lead (5bhn) to something around 10-14 bhn maybe using just clip on wheel weights and see how much that helps. the short bullets load fine say 90-145gr, but when i get to the 200-300 gr i find maybe 5 of 10 reloaded will work without tweeking the bullet straight

and im wondering if i lube the bullets with alox or something if it will help in seating the bullet, the bullet diameters range from .310 on the smallerest to .313 on the biggest, and the long ones are the bigger dia. well ill have to lube them anyway if i change to harder lead

LONG STORY SHOT, i could use some tips in reloading, using soft bullets and casting tips too,

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mckg posted this 02 October 2015

Could your make a bullet seater using the same tools as for the molds? I'm sure you will see how when you get a press and standard dies. Right now you can probably make a longer loading die allowing for the use of a bullet sleeve/seater.

Can you salvage lead from a pistol range? It would be a little harder. If you're looking for wheelweights, look for a shop that deals with (real) trucks; their weights are huge! Hopefully they'll be willing to let you have them.

btw, range lead and WW would cast larger than pure lead (and at lower temp), so don't rush with the honing.

You asked earlier about powders. I think that Vectan powders are available somewhere in your time zone. A1 would be a Unique equivalent, and A0 (~Herco) is their official cast bullet propellant. They are both fluffier than American powders, except TrailBoss, and sell for $31/33 a pound.

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EvanGuy posted this 04 October 2015

Once i get a press im sure ill get it figured out, i can see it going alot better. also once i get my work bench finished it will help alot too im guessing since an old dresser isnt ideal haha. and i made an extended bullet seater and it helped but not perfect. i think its the hammering instead of pressing, causing the issues since its soo soft lead. when i load copper jacked bullets it works perfectly as it should.

I probably can get some lead from a range. there is no pistol range close but there are alot of lead bullets in the back stop of the dnr public rifle range. ill grab some of that to try. also i have a feiend that works at a tire shop. he got me a 5 gallon bucket of clipon wheel weights. i just need to drive to Halifax to get them.

Also i did find that powder over her. a guy is a dealer of it out of his basement. but also a mission BC company called “rusty wood trading company” who i plan on oederig some cast bullets from quoted me 44$ to ship 3 pounds of powder and the powder is only 30$ a pound. so winwin. its over 50$ a pound here.

Im going to get some trailboss,unique and titegroup depending on funds i also want to try A-0 and bullseye or reddot because of all the talk of them even #2400 id like to try.

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mckg posted this 04 October 2015

I had a Loader in .44 Mag; it would only flare the cases which is not what we want with cast bullets. Many would be seated askew which bulged and damaged the necks permanently. The wacking was most annoying too...

If your bench is not finished, I could loan you an armchair wooden frame; tilt it against your dresser and bolt/clamp your press on it. You just pay shipping ;).

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tturner53 posted this 04 October 2015

Re. the Lithgow .303, what is the 'heavy duty barrel'? I have a 1913 and now am wondering if there's something I don't know. Also, check out RL7.

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EvanGuy posted this 04 October 2015

mckg,yeah i feel its time to upgrade my reloading gear lol. and i just finished up my wifes kitchen this weekend soo that mean the next work im doing is in the garage. thanks for the offer.

tturner53, well you will know if you have one because there will be a “H” stamped on the top (on the flat) of the chamber od. also the end of the barrel will be 14mm for the sights and then after about an inch and a half it goes to 17mm with no taper, just looks like the barren was turned down for the sights.

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy44/Evanguy/8lithbarrel2_zpsiwrngdeq.jpg>http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy44/Evanguy/8lithbarrel2zpsiwrngdeq.jpg

"The Lithgow is a H model conversion (heavy barrel) so you'll either need to find wood suitable or make it suitable by removing wood from the barrel channel. Not very easy to do while maintaining the correct methods of bedding for accuracy. “

this is a post i made asking about the guns and then i was provided this info ^^ since then i looked it up and it was commonly done to convert older unserviceable rifles into training rifles for shape shooters, like the 22 trainer barrel lee enfield was done for the cadets.

http://www.enfield-rifles.com/lithgow-and-22-trainer-help_topic7577_page1.html>http://www.enfield-rifles.com/lithgow-and-22-trainer-helptopic7577page1.html

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