45-70 experiences

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  • Last Post 30 August 2015
tlkeizer posted this 12 August 2015

Greetings I haven't reported on shooting my trapdoors much lately, so thought I would list today's results, and some in the future as I wander out to the range. I was wanting to compare my first shot location out of a clean barrel to the second shot location out of the fouled barrel so went to the range with lots of patches and cleaning solution and brushes along with shells.  I fired a shot in the clean barrel at 100 yards, then followed that with a second shot (just in case there is a second shot needed while hunting).  I used two different loads, and compared one load to the other along with specific load internal comparisons.  Now, I did not do 10 sets of each for the hard corps statisticians, but the general tendencies were interesting and I can add more data later when my shoulder allows.  The first load was ww cases, 55 grains Goex FFG compressed with 10 grains loose on top to fill the void, Winchester large rifle magnum primer, 417 grain flat base cast bullet seated to the top lead rim (whatevertheheck it is called), pan lubed with SPG.  I shot 5 sets, two patches wet with Hoppe's #9 brushed in between with the bore brush, then two patches to dry the barrel after each second shot  between the clean barrel/fouled barrel set for every set of two.Results with RCBS Chronograph are as follows in whole numbers:     clean barrel averaged 1303 FPS, high 1308, low 1298.     fouled barrel averaged 1291 FPS, high 1299, low 1283     clean barrel strike averaged 3 inch high and 2 inch left of fouled shot, consistent groups The second load was RP cases, 63 grains Goex FFG compressed with 7 grains loose on top to fill void, Winchester large Rifle Magnum Primer, 527 grain flat base cast bullet seated to top lead rim, pan lubed with SPG, loaded about 14 months ago, same set of shots with 3 sets.     clean barrel averaged 1240 FPS; 1230, 1234, 1256 in that order     fouled barrel averaged 1232 FPS; 1232,1218,1246      Last set of 2 considerably faster than first two sets.  First shot nearly 4 inches higher and 3 inches left of follow-on shot.     Second two sets had first shot slightly right of second and elevations nearly the same     100 grains more lead and 5 grains more powder definitely felt by shoulder There is slightly more data  to be gleaned, but this I thought was interesting.  Either load at 100 yards would have taken a caribou with any shot if the sights were centered in the boiler accounting for the shots striking an average of 6 inches to the right of where aimed (but I know this and aim accordingly).  I will see about a photo or two later. Tried to separate data, but format consolidated writing for me.  Sorry TK                                    

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onondaga posted this 13 August 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=6948>tlkeizer

I have a simple tip that may shrink the POI distance between your 2 shots. It is a step I use with my muzzle loaders that simulates fouling for the first shot......That got you reading?

When I clean for storage or before a trip to the range, but especially before a hunting trip, I do an extra step. I load a fluffy bore mop with Johnson's Paste Wax. Take 5 strokes and leave it that way with no buffing.

My shots #1 and #2 generally touch at 50 yards. They are as far apart as yours with no wax treatment.

This may work well with your application specifics. Worth a try!!!!!

Gary

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tlkeizer posted this 13 August 2015

Greetings Gary,

I will have to give that a try (I hope Sally doesn't see me with the paste wax and have me use some on the floor). Anyway, after I get some wax and try it I will report on how it works for me. That will take a bit more time at the range letting the wax set, but that will just be more time at the range.

TK

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onondaga posted this 13 August 2015

I just do the wax at home and check the first 2 shots at the range. The 2 shot targets add up from trips to the range and showed me this. I did this just to see what would happen in a hunting scenario with 2 shots. I set my sights by those 2 shot targets for hunting.

You know this is because I hunt Bear!!!!

Gary

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Dirtybore posted this 15 August 2015

I've had a similar occurance with my 54 cal Lyman Great plains half stock caplock muzzlelaoder.  The first shot from a clean bore will be 2” left and 2” high.  Once the bore is fouled, the rest of the shots hit where sighted.  In the 28 years I've been hunting with muzzleloaders, I've taken 9 deer and only one was a 100 yd shot.  All the others were 50 yds or less.  That 2” difference really doesn't make one bit of difference at those shorter ranges.  The one item I wish to point out is that I'm not hunting over large fields.   I'm going into the woods and thickets after them.   

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onondaga posted this 15 August 2015

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7944>Dirtybore

The OP lives and hunts in Alaska. The 2” difference is a big deal when you are aiming your second shot at the spinal cord of a charging Grizzly Bear.

Gary

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Dirtybore posted this 30 August 2015

Onondaga; I don't believe OP is going to hunt grizzlies with that Trapdoor 45-70. A charging grizzle would be a frontal shot so a spinal cord shot would be difficult.

I wouldn't feel amiss hunting black bear with any of my 54 muzzleloaders or a black powder fueled 45-70. Grizzly is a differnt story.

Have I hunted in Alaska? Yes, many times. I also trout fished in some of the streams. I was fortunate enough to get to hunt moose up the Stikine River with my dad one time too. While growing up, I hunted the Southeastern Alaska islands with a 30-30. After I got out of the Navy in 1970, I often hunted the maineland with a 30-06.

One of my friends, a local Wrangell fellow had a grizzly charged him. This took place during a moose hunt up the Stikine River. He only had time to get one shot off and that was with his 7mm Rem Mag and the bear died basically at his feet. The Nosler partition bullet did it's job. Like I said, there wasn't enough time to get a second shot off and the bear would have been on him if it hadn't died. Grizzly is a different story.

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onondaga posted this 30 August 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=7944>Dirtybore

2” is still 2” and the problem may disappear with the tip I gave the OP. Yes, the spinal cord frontal shot is not easy but is the best Bear dropping shot on a charging Bear.. A hit there turns off the nervous system of the Bear instantly and the Bear cannot voluntarily continue a charge or move at all. That is your best chance to save your own life against a charging Bear.

Gary

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