Trash talk on Bushing dies and Collet dies with mandrels removed

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  • Last Post 10 September 2017
onondaga posted this 12 November 2015

What a mess, these things are like Mushroom Anchors in a fast river. The Bushing is a hole that brass is is pushed into when ammo with poor concentricity is going to be made. The collet die with the mandrel removed is a squeezing hole that crimps an entire neck with zero reference to bullet size and plenty of adjustment to get as much incorrect function of a die as possible by simply not following instructions.

Progress haters and negative innovation critics love messing up inventions that work by ignoring and falsely refuting instructions to give poor results, they just love Mushroom Anchors in a fast river too.

Gary

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R. Dupraz posted this 12 November 2015

Yep Gary:

Those poor ignorant knaves just don't understand do they? Sometimes one wonders if there is any hope at all.

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John Carlson posted this 13 November 2015

It would be a lot easier to make the point if the guys using them would quit winning matches!:caution:

Holding public office should be viewed as an obligation to serve, not an opportunity to rule.

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onondaga posted this 15 November 2015

The winners using bushing dies have randomly crossed paths with a luck algorithm and it is not going to last. The winners using collet dies with the mandrels removed will also run out of luck for the same reason. Gary

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R. Dupraz posted this 15 November 2015

There is nothing like shoulder to shoulder competition at match distances to find out what really works and what does not.

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beltfed posted this 17 December 2015

So, now that the tongue in cheek comments are hopefully done,

REALLY, now that I have ordered one in cal 30-06, I would like to know if the Lee collet dies are an improvement , ,

if used correctlyOF COURSE

Thanks

beltfed/arnie

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gpidaho posted this 17 December 2015

beltfed: I like the ones I have. I'm also pretty fond of my Redding bushing dies. Like all things Lee, their less expensive than Wilson or Redding dies and just work the brass from the inside out instead of outside in. I use the Lee dies both mandrel in and out to good effect. Not needing case lube is a big plus with either type of die. Gp

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onondaga posted this 17 December 2015

 I use the Lee Collet Neck sizing die set for my 30-06 Springfield 1903A3 with Winchester brass and a variety of my own cast bullets. I don't believe there is any die set better at any price for my application. I have zero problems, nice neck tension on my bullets, less than .001” concentricity run-out anywhere on my loaded ammunition and routinely bench fire 10 shot  1.1MOA @ 100 yards with a Lee 170 gr FNGC sized .310” and tumble lubed. I flair case mouths .003” before seating bullets with the Lee Universal Expander Die and don't close the flair after seating bullets. I don't do anything to veer off from Lee instructions at all. I don't do anything special at all. The 1903A3 I have is a parts rifle built from all new, old stock arsenal parts and is my first and only rifle in caliber 30-06. The people that can't do that just don't like Lee, their bullets don't fit or they have a crappy rifle and load their ammo wrong. Yes, there is an improvement with the Lee Collet Neck Sizing die set and the improvement is exactly where Lee claims the improvement is. Ammunition correctly loaded with these dies has lower concentricity than is possible with any full length sizing die set or any neck bushing sizing die set. You can easily prove this yourself with measurement and I encourage you to do so to answer your question about improvement for yourself. Here is an interesting comparison video you can easily replicate: <url=

I actually get better results with the Lee Collet die than the video shows, My press is the Lee Classic Cast Turret with Lee's standard freefloat die turret and Lee's standard freefloat Neiprene “O” ring die setting rings that self center better than anything I have experienced since 1958, including Forster coaxial presses. I sincerely believe that if you don't get results as good as mine, that you have erred or you have a crappier rifle than my crappy old military $225.00 parts rifle with no matching part numbers. Gary

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beltfed posted this 17 December 2015

Thanks guys, for the encouraging comments

My 30-06 Lee collet die will arrive tomorrow. I am now looking even more forward to it after seeing your comments.

I, too will be loading 06's for my issue Smith-Corona 03A3, my M1903A1, 1933 bbl date Marine Corps sniper rifle, and my Remington 1917.

Got back into the CBA Military Rifle cast bullet matches last summer and my appetite is whetted to do more next spring/summer...

 

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onondaga posted this 17 December 2015

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/view_user.php?id=1981>beltfed

 Keep your loads segregated by rifle when using your new Lee Collet. That is part of the Lee instructions to take seriously when neck sizing. It is highly unlikely that fire-formed/neck sized reloads will be interchangeable between 3 rifles or even 2. Make labels for ammo boxes for each rifle and keep segregated.

If you change your mind and want 3 rifle interchangeability with reloads, stop neck-sizing and start FL sizing. Those are the Lee instructions for good reason. Do you understand why or do you need an explanation?

Gary

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beltfed posted this 18 December 2015

Gary, thank you again.

Been there, done that. Have kept separate brass for each rifle for years. As you said, esp when neck sizing only. I have already reserved 100+ rds brass for each of the three Military '06. Bolt guns. Just to check, I noted thru checking FF brass from each gun and found the SC03A3 tightest chamber, followed by the 03A1, then the 1917.

Started with the TW-54 brass that I was using in the '60s in the 03A1 for OTC and long range(my first rifle for service rifle matches). Still good brass. I was neck sizing only for slow fire Std and long range. The rapid fire rounds, are FLS WCC54 brass.  

Of course, I would expect to FLS for the Garand, tho,- again, separate brass,  as I have done in the past for it and other gas guns.

beltfed/arnie

  

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Wineman posted this 18 December 2015

I have both. The bushing dies are infinitely adjustable, as long as a $15 per pop bushing is part of what you want to have. The caveat is that for the inside case neck (ID) to be the diameter you want, you need to know the brass thickness and it needs to be consistent. For a 0.314” cast bullet, I use 0.002” of tension, my LC62 Match brass is 0.015 thickness and you subtract 0.001” for springback so: 0.314-0.002-0.001+(0.015*2)=0.341 bushing. Some may even take 0.002 for springback. Issues are uneven brass thickness and dents from M1 Garand loads are not handled well. Case hardness can mess with springback too. The LEE Collet die has a uniform diameter mandrel (or not as some use them). The mandrel OD equals the case ID plus 0.001ish for springback. If you do not press as hard, or back the die off a bit, you can get less squeeze and your ID can be larger but it may not be as consistent, depending on your ability to know how hard you press each time. LEE does make larger mandrels and you can make them smaller with a drill and some w/d emery paper. With my stock mandrel, I can get the 0.312” ID that I like for 0.314” as cast LEE 312-160TL for a M1903A3 two groove.

Dave

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bushranch posted this 09 September 2017

Just enjoyed some "Lever" sessions with my .300 Savage M 99 EG . Was again reminded how well the Lee .308 Winchester Collet Die works in loading the .300 Savage. No alterations or adjustments required for my rifle. Loaded for cast followed by M die and jacketed as per usual .308 procedure. 

 

FWIW - great rifle and hunting round from the past.. Rus

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RicinYakima posted this 10 September 2017

Not that I hunt anymore, but always regretted selling my late model Savage 1920 bolt gun in .300. All up with side mounted Weaver scope it only weighted 7 pounds and shot 150 grain jacketed bullets very well (before I started shooting cast rifle bullets).

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