Outside neck turning

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  • Last Post 04 December 2015
billglaze posted this 30 November 2015

I looked up the Sinclair neck-turning tool.  Unfortunately, they were reduced to “back order."In scouting about, I noticed the Forster turning tool. Question:  Any comments pro or con about this unit?  I'm listening real hard, and the guidance given is extremely useful--bless this list. Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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Maven posted this 01 December 2015

Bill, I have a neck turner on one of my Forster trimmers, but use it primarily to ream the necks on reformed brass, .30-06 -> 6.5 x 55mm for example.  It's tedious, but not difficult to accomplish, but then I don't have other NT tools to compare it to.  Since I have no rifles with match chambers, the tool sees little use.  Btw, on occasion, I use it to make the necks of .30-06 brass more concentric, but I doubt it has a marked effect on accuracy in my Win. Mod. 70 “Westerner."

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billglaze posted this 01 December 2015

Maven, thanks for the info.  The reviews of the Forster on Midway's site, were  pretty mixed, leaving me kind of up in the air.  i'm going to hang in there, and get more info.  Even the Sinclair doesn't look too speedy; I want to do 100 cases for starters.  Of course, 100 cases should last a long time, at least that's my hope.  Sounds like tedious work, any way you cut it.  But I'm still up for ot, if it helps accuracy.  Where I'm really concerned is in the case of cast bullets.  I don't know how the size relationship is going to work out. Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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JSH posted this 01 December 2015

I have the Forster set up. I have used others, some better which you pay the price for too. Fast and good I don't see together when neck turning. If this is a factory chamber, I doubt you will see much if any measurable change for your time spent. Then again it only has to be done once.

I turned a few years back for an 06 and groups actually got worse, and all I did was knock the high spots off. If I were to build a new gun for accuracy, lapua brass and a no turn neck would be first on the list. Jeff

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joeb33050 posted this 01 December 2015

I use the Forster outside neck turner gizmo, with a 1/4” electric drill. I oil the mandrel goesintheneck and the cutter thing that turns the mandrel. I oil everything that turns. With the drill it's fast and easy and consistent. Lotsa folded rags to get the drill in place. joe b. 

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rockquarry posted this 01 December 2015

I've used the Forster for at least thirty-five years. May be a bit slow, but it works very well. I have a Sinclair hand-held neck turning tool that I purchased about twenty-five years ago for turning 6BR necks. No longer have the rifle, so I haven't used the tool in long time. The Sinclair also works very well. However, if I had to turn a large quantity of cases, I would prefer the Forster.

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gpidaho posted this 01 December 2015

Bill: Your original post is the only reason I would opt to turn the necks, safety and function being the goal. The match winning bench shooters might find improved results on target but I'm willing to bet that in MY case that turning the necks over using quality brass would show no measurable benefit, as I'm most likely the weak link in the chain. There are some good reasons to turn the brass, my old Polish Mosin has a bore that is just too large for the chamber neck, soooo, just shoot mil-surp jacketed junk or turn the brass. I enjoy working at the reloading bench but there's just nothing fun or fast about neck turning. Yes, I've turned 100+ at a sitting and if it needed to be done more than just once I'd shoot jacketed ammo or just sell the rifle. lol Gp

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billglaze posted this 01 December 2015

More on the neck turning: I have the idea that neck turning cases is just between the popularity factor of a colonoscopy, and a Dental root canal. Based on what you folks have so kindly written, (a great big THANKS for your help) I believe due to time constraints, with the Sinclair being U/A, and the satisfaction level of the Forster owners, that's the way I am going to go. And, yes, safety is my great concern, but--I have determined that the slightly too-tite neck seems to be a very narrow rim at the extreme mouth of the case. Get by that “rim” and the bullet is a nice slip fit in the case neck. I measured the case length, and it is at the extreme maximum as shown in the SAAMI drawings. Sooo--I'm thinking to trim the case about .010” and see what's left, diameter-wise. And, also, I'm going to check and see if the R.C.B.S. sizing die might have a crimping shoulder in the end of the neck. Please excuse if I sound so dumb about this, but the rifle, dies, cartridge, cartridge cases--in fact, everything associated with this endeavor, are brand-new to me. Before closing my own version of War and Peace, let me say again the replies here are considered priceless to me, thank you all for your time, knowledge, and pertinent ideas.

Bill Glaze

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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Brodie posted this 01 December 2015

Billglaze, You must understand that when you have a colonoscopy or root canal you are anesthetized. Not so when turning necks unless you are a heavy drinker.  If you were to use the Versed that is given for the colonoscopy you wouldn't remember that you had turned the cases, and would do it over and over until they had no necks.

B.E.Brickey

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Brodie posted this 01 December 2015

Bill,  I would take a close look at the dimensions of my sizing die especially near the end of the neck.  You would probably have to make a pound cast or something to measure it, but why are the cases only tight at the extreme end of the neck?  I wonder if your sizing die isn't a little tight near the mouth of the case. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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billglaze posted this 01 December 2015

Old coot:
I knew a guy long ago that said he was beginning to enjoy colonoscopies--needless to say, I stayed a long way away from him......

Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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billglaze posted this 01 December 2015

Brodie and Longone:What you are saying makes a lot of sense, and everything is on the table and under the microscope.  However, Longone, inasmuch as the rifle has a very few rounds through it, I suspect a carbon ring to be a little premature, at this point.  Having said that, I'm still going with your idea; can't do any harm, (done correctly) and will remove all doubt, as the rifle needs cleaning anyhow, on an ongoing basis.Brodie, the dies being brand new, (as well as new to me) are definitely under suspicion.  And, the problem might be as easy to solve just by backing out the seating die a half turn, (about .030, give or take.) I sure wish the rain would clear out of here, and the temp. improve to at least marginally comfortable.  Wish I was down shooting with joeb!  At least, I'd have more empty cases to inspect! Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 01 December 2015

Neck turner, locally made of CRS.  1/4” lathe tool.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 01 December 2015

Nielson ctg holder.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 01 December 2015

Nielson ctg holder.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 01 December 2015

Nielson “lathe” for neck turning.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 02 December 2015

Bill - this is set up for 6mm. One cutter is marked rough the other marked finish.

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billglaze posted this 02 December 2015

TRK:Boy, is that ever a nice looking setup!  I can see some really precision work coming out of that machinery.I was giving my memory a workout last evening, (with a tall, cool one in hand) and suddenly remembered that years ago, ca. '86 or so, I went through a spate of neck-turning for .308 cases to be used in Hi-Power competition at 600 yards and beyond.  I remembered that for the M1, and M1A, (all custom built to super-match specs.) that it seemed to make no difference.  In my bolt gun by P.J. Wright, I couldn't tell any difference, either.I could say that, in the case of the Service rifles, the improvement, if any, was lost or obscured by other factors.  Not so sure of that alibi in the case of the bolt rifle; it'll still put 5 in 1/2” or less, when shooting Sierra M.K's.  But, the bolt rifle was built by a master builder, and possibly didn't need neck-turned cases.  And, the cases in question are L.C. Match, and boy, are they ever uniform.  In the event, still fiddling, piddling, and thinking. Ain't that the fun of this sport? Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 02 December 2015

I went and looked. I think the 'lathe' is no longer made and the Don Nielson 'pumpkins' are 250 each. (I paid 75 for the set.) Can bring your way if you have a bunch of 6mm to do.

I found that neck turning 7.62 Nato in my Rem 40x I could get much better groups. It immediately reduced the runout of the assembled catridge. ( I use it mainly for prairie dogs out past 400 yards. )

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 02 December 2015

neck turning : if the neck id is non-concentric with the case body .... and now you locate the neck id on a spud ...and turn the neck od .... oh oh, you still have a neck id not concentric with the case body .

darnit !! now we have forgotten the original intent .....


my obsessive benchrest buddies turn the necks slightly, then fire them then turn again and indicate for runout relative to case body . and try to start with lapua brass in the first place ..... although there are occasional lots of commercial brass that is pretty good . the idea here is that if the chamber is cut perfectly the brass after repeated firings will eventually be .... closer to ... concentric ...


but it does seem reasonable that thinner necks will allow more room for larger bullets in a tight necked chamber .


if you have a small hobby lathe you can cut a spud to tightly fit the neck and hold the brass base in a tailstock gizmo ... and cut the neck od with a very sharp high rake cutter . cut a new spud each set . i have also used a wilson shell holder in a 4 jaw and put a spud in the tailstock ... very very slow but ok for 6 brass to see if it helps .... with the wilson set-up you will see your neck id run out .... so LAPUA if you can find it ...

ken

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RicinYakima posted this 02 December 2015

"In the event, still fiddling, piddling, and thinking. Ain't that the fun of this sport?" Yes it is for me. A thousand and one variables and the only way to prove it is to make the ammo and shoot the groups.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 02 December 2015

hmmm ... just re-reading my post on neck turning ... remember ... neck turning ( or lack of ) isn't why cast bullets shoot 2 to 4 moa from our deer rifles ...

and i may as well get in my annual plug ::: remember that pepsi cans at 40 yards look like 8 moa !!! castem and shootem and grin !!

ken

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fa38 posted this 03 December 2015

I think if you then full length size the case  after turning it gets concentric or at least as concentric as the full length die.    

Ken Campbell Iowa wrote:

neck turning : if the neck id is non-concentric with the case body .... and now you locate the neck id on a spud ...and turn the neck od .... oh oh, you still have a neck id not concentric with the case body .

darnit !! now we have forgotten the original intent .....


my obsessive benchrest buddies turn the necks slightly, then fire them then turn again and indicate for runout relative to case body . and try to start with lapua brass in the first place ..... although there are occasional lots of commercial brass that is pretty good . the idea here is that if the chamber is cut perfectly the brass after repeated firings will eventually be .... closer to ... concentric ...


but it does seem reasonable that thinner necks will allow more room for larger bullets in a tight necked chamber .


if you have a small hobby lathe you can cut a spud to tightly fit the neck and hold the brass base in a tailstock gizmo ... and cut the neck od with a very sharp high rake cutter . cut a new spud each set . i have also used a wilson shell holder in a 4 jaw and put a spud in the tailstock ... very very slow but ok for 6 brass to see if it helps .... with the wilson set-up you will see your neck id run out .... so LAPUA if you can find it ...

ken

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Brodie posted this 04 December 2015

If you are worried about case concentricity (roundness) size the case before turning.  At least the neck will be as round as the sizing die is/

B.E.Brickey

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