Casting with Lyman molds

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joeb33050 posted this 01 December 2015

Yesterday I cast for a little over an hour with a Lyman 225646 mold. I marked one cavity so a dot shows on the nose, so bullets are “dot” and “no dot". This morning I inspected the bullets under a magnifier. There were 5 rejects. Dot, 115 bullets, sets of 10 weighed 597.2, 597.4, 596.5 grains No Dot, 117 bullets, sets of 10 weighed 596.5, 596.4, 596.7 grains

Casting is fast and easy. I've bought many bullet molds over the years, and don't like aluminum molds. LBT, NOE, LEE, Eagan brass, others. I have ! aluminum mold, NO 227-80, and it's going down the road. Lyman molds are all the others. They work, last almost forever, make bullets that shoot accurately, and they're iron. Maybe this is just opinion, but I've paid a lot of money for molds from wizards, and they're gone. Didn't work well. Most custom molds in 22 have bases too big to go in the gas checks, so I have to make gas-check-expanders and open the gas checks to fit the bullets. This from Eagan, NOE, LBT and the guy who passed away and his daughter moved the business to arizona or one of those hot dry states. Lyman.

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John Alexander posted this 01 December 2015

Everyone is entitled to his opinion but I am curious as to why you don't like Aluminum molds?  I have several Lyman molds that work fine. But I also have several aluminum NEI, NOE, Lee, and LBT molds and all of them cast as well as my molds that rust.  With gang molds the light weight is welcome.

I too have several 22 molds, including a couple from Lyman, with gas check shanks that are too large (or gas checks are too small) but none are so bad that I have to expand the checks.  My theory is that the conventional wisdom is for a certain gas check shank diameter for the 22s that is slightly large and mold makers just follows the conventional wisdom.

 I also have never had an aluminum mold that refused to drop the bullets with a moderate whack at most but I have had Lyman molds that wouldn't.

Your sets of tens are very uniform but if you are still weighing individual bullets what is the range and SD of your castings?  Are the  extreme variations big enough to justify sorting by weight?

I hope that after you have shot lots of groups with the dotted and undtted bullets you will report your accuracy results.  I never have been able to prove that sorting bullets by cavity improved matters but then I may have just been lucky. John

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Dirtybore posted this 02 December 2015

I've had very good luck with Lyman moulds and the two RCBS moulds I have. I have a number of aluminum moulds, they are one Rapine, one NEI, and the rest are Lee's.

The Lee's are the only ones that have done crazy things to me so I really don't care for Lee moulds. They are aluminum but that's not the issue, the two quality moulds, though aluminum drop great bullets. Several of the Lee moulds notoriously drop bullets that change diameter at some point during a casting session.

The only reason I have any Lee moulds is because they offer bullet weights in calibers that Lyman doesn't offer. If I could get a Lyman mould in the same caliber, weigh, and shape, I would. A case in point. I have Lyman moulds #311299 and #31499 so I con't have to use the Lee 200 g .309” bullet mould anymore.

6.5 mm is the smallest caliber I've cast bullets for so can't comment on the 22 moulds.

The above is my opinion but it is one made after using these moulds for a number of years.

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billglaze posted this 02 December 2015

I have, and still use, some Lyman moulds that I bought and put into service ca.1954-55. (225450, 225415, 225438, .45 Keith 255 gr. semi-wadcutter, couple of .270 dies, (ca. 1957-58) and they are still in use. I've used aluminum dies, and, like anything made primarily on a price base, you have to give up something. Rather than enter into a litany, I'll just say that I much prefer the behavior of Mehanite iron. (Also makes killer valve seats, but that's another subject.) If other folks prefer other mediums, well, that's their privilege; I don't have a problem. Different strokes............. Bill

In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. My fate is not entirely in Gods hands, if I have a weapon in mine.

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RicinYakima posted this 02 December 2015

Yes, Bill, I vote from bronze and then brass.

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joeb33050 posted this 02 December 2015

John Alexander wrote: Everyone is entitled to his opinion but I am curious as to why you don't like Aluminum molds?  I have several Lyman molds that work fine. But I also have several aluminum NEI, NOE, Lee, and LBT molds and all of them cast as well as my molds that rust.  With gang molds the light weight is welcome.

I don't like aluminum molds because after many years and many molds from many makers, I've got 1. If they made good bullets that shot accurately, I'd have more. I have Lyman molds in 22, 30 and 45, and they work. I have an iron Ohaus mold in 45 that's just great. I'll buy just about any mold where there's a hope for accuracy, even aluminum, but experience suggests that the outcome is/will be probably less-than-wonderful. I don't use gang molds.

I too have several 22 molds, including a couple from Lyman, with gas check shanks that are too large (or gas checks are too small) but none are so bad that I have to expand the checks.  My theory is that the conventional wisdom is for a certain gas check shank diameter for the 22s that is slightly large and mold makers just follows the conventional wisdom.

NEI, NOE, LBT, maybe 8 22 molds, gas checks didn't fit.    I also have never had an aluminum mold that refused to drop the bullets with a moderate whack at most but I have had Lyman molds that wouldn't.

Fiddled with, my Lyman molds drop most bullets fairly easy.

Your sets of tens are very uniform but if you are still weighing individual bullets what is the range and SD of your castings?  Are the  extreme variations big enough to justify sorting by weight?

Yesterday almost exactly 90 minutes of casting: Dot, 139 bullets, 10's weighed 594.4, 595.6, 595.6 No Dot, 140 bullets, 10s weighed 594.6, 594.0, 594.9 4 visual rejects

I had hoped that the bullet weights would vary by cavity, and maybe accuravy would improve if sorted by cavity. Doesn't look like it. I'm trying to avoid weighing each bullet. The tremor makes handling/weighing a challenge, I throw some across the room.  

I hope that after you have shot lots of groups with the dotted and undtted bullets you will report your accuracy results.  I never have been able to prove that sorting bullets by cavity improved matters but then I may have just been lucky. John And the beat goes on.

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John Alexander posted this 02 December 2015

Joe,

OK, I now understand you are weighing in sets of tens to see if there is a difference in the average weight of bullets from the two cavities. That makes sense and I'm sure you are right that an average difference of about 0.1 grain will make no difference.

 Dimensional differences might but if the average weights are that close the dimensions are probably close as well.    When I weigh individual bullets i find that getting them in and out of a little plastic cup and weighing them in the cup is easier for old fingers than placing them individually on and off the scale platform. That might be worth trying if you haven't already. However, throwing the bullets across the room will improve your accuracy results as much as sorting bullets by weight anyway so why worry.

 I never sort by weight because from a lot of testing of bullets sorted to very uniform weights vs. mixes of the light and heavy “culls” I am convinced that sorting bullets by weight is a total and complete waste of time for improving accuracy or eliminating fliers and I have never seen a believable report by anybody else showing that sorting by weight does any good.

At the same time it seems that almost all CB rifle shooters (and some pistol shooters) who are serious about accuracy still sort bullets by weight.  I don't know what to think about that that -- but I have several theories.

John

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Paul Pollard posted this 02 December 2015

Joe B wrote this about a year ago. 22780 NOE mold. I'm confused.

I got my mold, 4 cavity, Monday, and cast Tuesday. First try with an aluminum mold is always frought, but got some good bullets. Today will be better.I measured 10 at random.Weight 78.3 to 78.7 grains, Nose, perpendicular to parting line at the first band .2193"-.2198"Bands, perp to parting line, .2278"-.2281"Bright, shiny and sharp. The sprue sticks to the forward black sprue plate stop screw, PITA.The nose punch made a line = step on bullet nose, a couple of turns with the cricket fixed that. Gas checks went on easily.Sized in .228” die, lubed above GC only.Beautiful bullets, the mold is just great. 

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joeb33050 posted this 02 December 2015

Paul Pollard wrote: Joe B wrote this about a year ago. 22780 NOE mold. I'm confused.

I got my mold, 4 cavity, Monday, and cast Tuesday. First try with an aluminum mold is always frought, but got some good bullets. Today will be better.I measured 10 at random.Weight 78.3 to 78.7 grains, Nose, perpendicular to parting line at the first band .2193"-.2198"Bands, perp to parting line, .2278"-.2281"Bright, shiny and sharp. The sprue sticks to the forward black sprue plate stop screw, PITA.The nose punch made a line = step on bullet nose, a couple of turns with the cricket fixed that. Gas checks went on easily.Sized in .228” die, lubed above GC only.Beautiful bullets, the mold is just great. 

Paul, nice find. Can you find my post where I describe making a gas check expander from a piece of 1/4” rod? For this mold? Thanks; joe b. (This mold will be for sale very soon.)

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OU812 posted this 02 December 2015

Most all of my molds require different pot temps, different casting speeds and sprue flow rate.

Tip: If you are getting poor fillout even at hotter pot temps, try slowing down the nozzle flow. This allows the mold to vent better for good band fillout. Pooring too slow can create problems also. You must find the sweat spot.

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joeb33050 posted this 02 December 2015

I just got done inspecting 225646M. Dot, 184 No Dot, 183 These cast in 2 cav Lyman mold in 40 minutes. 40 minutes casting is about all I can do, very stiff and shaky after.

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joeb33050 posted this 02 December 2015

Monday after shooting a guy talked at me about cast bullets for a long time. He says he casts >1500 pounds of 357 and 429 bullets each winter. He explained that aluminum molds   get marked/gouged/scratched by the sprue plate. I've certainly seen that. I wonder if the sprue plate raises a burr, allowing alloy to make a teeny lip around the GC shank and making gas checks hard to go on.

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joeb33050 posted this 03 December 2015

Paul Pollard wrote: Joe B wrote this about a year ago. 22780 NOE mold. I'm confused.

I got my mold, 4 cavity, Monday, and cast Tuesday. First try with an aluminum mold is always frought, but got some good bullets. Today will be better.I measured 10 at random.Weight 78.3 to 78.7 grains, Nose, perpendicular to parting line at the first band .2193"-.2198"Bands, perp to parting line, .2278"-.2281"Bright, shiny and sharp. The sprue sticks to the forward black sprue plate stop screw, PITA.The nose punch made a line = step on bullet nose, a couple of turns with the cricket fixed that. Gas checks went on easily.Sized in .228” die, lubed above GC only.Beautiful bullets, the mold is just great. 

Bullet Base Chamfer Tool - Power tool http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/PowerBBCT.jpg>

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joeb33050 posted this 03 December 2015

Paul Pollard wrote: Joe B wrote this about a year ago. 22780 NOE mold. I'm confused.

I got my mold, 4 cavity, Monday, and cast Tuesday. First try with an aluminum mold is always frought, but got some good bullets. Today will be better.I measured 10 at random.Weight 78.3 to 78.7 grains, Nose, perpendicular to parting line at the first band .2193"-.2198"Bands, perp to parting line, .2278"-.2281"Bright, shiny and sharp. The sprue sticks to the forward black sprue plate stop screw, PITA.The nose punch made a line = step on bullet nose, a couple of turns with the cricket fixed that. Gas checks went on easily.Sized in .228” die, lubed above GC only.Beautiful bullets, the mold is just great. 

by Harold Leaming : Almost too pretty to use. Does more than remove flashing from boolit base.Given manufacturing tolerances with Al g'check materiel thicknesses (.014"-.016") and mould g'check shanks,I have had some difficulty pressing the g'check cup onto the boolit shank. This tool will cut a small, smooth bevel allowing an easy entry of shank into the formed cup.

A review of the tool above, from the NOE site.

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joeb33050 posted this 03 December 2015

Paul Pollard wrote: Joe B wrote this about a year ago. 22780 NOE mold. I'm confused.

I got my mold, 4 cavity, Monday, and cast Tuesday. First try with an aluminum mold is always frought, but got some good bullets. Today will be better.I measured 10 at random.Weight 78.3 to 78.7 grains, Nose, perpendicular to parting line at the first band .2193"-.2198"Bands, perp to parting line, .2278"-.2281"Bright, shiny and sharp. The sprue sticks to the forward black sprue plate stop screw, PITA.The nose punch made a line = step on bullet nose, a couple of turns with the cricket fixed that. Gas checks went on easily.Sized in .228” die, lubed above GC only.Beautiful bullets, the mold is just great. 

Here's the NOE manual flash remover. Is the confusion going away? Bullet Base Chamfer Tool - Manual http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/ChamferTool.jpg>

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joeb33050 posted this 05 December 2015

12/4/15 cast 409 + 3 rejects 225646M. Under 2 hours. Here's my casting setup. Plastic tub, 2' X 2' 1/2” ac plywood, al foil under pot, towel to drop bullets on, pie pan and spong and water to cool mold, cap of LLA to dip nozzle in, razor blade to put Alox on pins, all friction points, brass brush to brush spatter off mold, screwdriver to tighten brass sprue plate lock screw, lighter to ignite flux at the end of the session.

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mtngun posted this 09 December 2015

Well Joe, you are entitled to your opinions, as we all are. Last I heard Lyman molds are made out of steel, not iron.   They were designed at a time when a 230 gr. 45 acp bullet was considered a big bulet, so the blocks are relatively small and they heat up quickly.   The Lyman block is appropriate for the bullets that great grandpa used to cast but not so much for today's macho magnums. There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all mold, or a one-size-fits-all sprue plate.   For good casting qualities, the block and the sprue plate need to be matched to the bullet and the alloy.    

Also the bullet design influences the casting properties.    Some designs fill out easier than others, or release easier.      You have never bought an aluminum or brass mold from me, not that I am trying to sell you one.   Just saying, :D   :D   :D   :D   :D

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joeb33050 posted this 09 December 2015

mtngun wrote: Well Joe, you are entitled to your opinions, as we all are. Last I heard Lyman molds are made out of steel, not iron.   They were designed at a time when a 230 gr. 45 acp bullet was considered a big bulet, so the blocks are relatively small and they heat up quickly.   The Lyman block is appropriate for the bullets that great grandpa used to cast but not so much for today's macho magnums. There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all mold, or a one-size-fits-all sprue plate.   For good casting qualities, the block and the sprue plate need to be matched to the bullet and the alloy.    

Also the bullet design influences the casting properties.    Some designs fill out easier than others, or release easier.      You have never bought an aluminum or brass mold from me, not that I am trying to sell you one.   Just saying, :D   :D   :D   :D   :D

If you're Veral Smith at LBT, I've bought maybe 6-8 molds from you. If you're not, who are you?

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mtngun posted this 09 December 2015

http://www.mountainmolds.com/>Mountain Molds.

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joeb33050 posted this 09 December 2015

mtngun wrote: http://www.mountainmolds.com/>Mountain Molds. Last I heard Lyman molds were made of Meehanite, cast Iron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meehanite

I've cast quite a few Lyman 457125s at ~525 grains, that's a fairly heavy bullet. Lyman makes 69 cal musket molds, 12 ga slug molds, 566 gr parker hale molds etc.  

However, if aluminum works for you, go to it! Lyman molds have worked for me since 1960, still work fine. Just saying.

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mtngun posted this 09 December 2015

3rd edition of Lyman CB Handbook, page 54, says “cold rolled steel".

I believe your 457125 is a single cavity? The heavy macho magnum bullets are too big for the double cavity Lyman block.

I'm not knocking Lyman molds, the one I tried cast and shot nicely. But in general, whether a mold casts well with a particular bullet is about matching the bullet to the block. The best block for a 700 gr. 500 caliber is not the best block for a 55 gr. 22.

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