Did I ruin my brass?

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  • Last Post 12 May 2016
max503 posted this 05 February 2016

Last night I full length sized 35 pieces of WW 30-30 brass, then I washed the sizing lube off with hot tap water and I placed the brass, flash hole up, in a plastic loading block. I wanted to dry the cases so I took my heat gun and heated the cases until the water vaporized and sizzled out of the flash holes.  It only took about 30 seconds to heat the cases enough to do that.  Realizing that this might not be a smart move, I ran the cases under the tap to cool them. At their hottest I could place my palm against the hot cases but it was very very uncomfortable to do that.  Probably would have given me a 1st degree burn if I left it there. The cases got about as hot as a wet frying pan gets when you put it over the stove and sizzle off the drops of water.  The heat did not deform the plastic tray they were in.  The tray came from a box of commercial 38 ammo.  The heat gun is like a hair dryer on steroids.  It's main use is to heat up heat shrink tubing on electrical projects. Have I changed the heat treatment characteristics of this brass?  Is it safe to use?  Should I pitch it?

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RicinYakima posted this 05 February 2016

I would use them. At 750 degrees cartridge brass will anneal in about 5 seconds, but at 650 degrees it is one hour. I doubt that your heat gun would get them more than 400? If the first one blows up, don't use any more:), Ric

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max503 posted this 05 February 2016

I figured they got about as hot as they would if they sat on hot asphalt for an hour on a 100+ degree summer day. Maybe a little more. No where near “hot enough to burn you when you touch them".

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 05 February 2016

do you still see (on the necks) the rings of color change from the NECKS being annealed? Is the color below that consistant or do you see the darker shift in color near the base?

My guess is that you got them hot but not hot enough for the annealing - change in color will show you.

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Brodie posted this 05 February 2016

I can't believe that you have softened the  bases of the brass.  Water boils at 100C or 212F. Unless you kept the heat gun on the bases until they changed color they should be good.

Ok, I used a lot of qualifiers above, but I vote with Ric.  Use the brass and if it is bad your' primer pockets will become weak and not hold the primers.  There is no way from what you reported that you have ruined the brass. Brodie

B.E.Brickey

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max503 posted this 05 February 2016

No change of color is apparent. My guess is they will be ok, but you don't last long as a reloader if you're not cautious. I'm just being cautious.I appreciate the help.  This forum is great.

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onondaga posted this 05 February 2016

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=708>max503

"I washed the sizing lube off with hot tap water and I placed the brass, flash hole up, in a plastic loading block. I wanted to dry the cases"

You didn't follow standard loading steps that are in manuals and got creative. Following the books works better.

If you have so much lube on your brass that you have to stop and wash it off before you can proceed, You messed up lubing brass very badly. Follow the lube directions better. If you apply most lubes correctly, you can leave them on, but if they need to be cleaned off, clean loaded ammo when done loading with a microfibre towel slightly dampened with Mean Green.

If you have to clean case lube off before you can continue loading, you really goofed up lubing.

Gary

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max503 posted this 05 February 2016

I followed the directions on the bottle.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 05 February 2016

the only real problem with too much lube in sizing is that the lube can hydraulically wrinkle the necks at the shoulder junction .... a guy i know did this converting 223 brass to 222 ...more is not always better ... heh ...

ken

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onondaga posted this 05 February 2016

http://castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=708>max503

If you have so much lube on your brass that you have to stop and wash it off before you can proceed, You messed up lubing brass very badly because you misinterpreted the instructions on the bottle.

Many commercial lube instructions and online videos completely boggle or misinform beginners. The least amount that does the job safely is correct. I use Lee sizing lube or Kiwi Mink Oil boot dressing and for either I use the smallest dab rubbed into my hands that allows me to lube 10 cases at once between my hands in prayer fashion and just rub hands for a few strokes. You cn certainly blunder my instructions too by using way too much for the job. I can easily lube 100 cases in less than 2 minutes.

The Lee case sizing lube or the Mink Oil go on for me so lightly that I don't have to wash them off. But If I goof, either washes off loaded ammo very easily with a microfiber towel dampened with Mean Green.

Your “just following instructions on the bottle” doesn't cut it for very many newbies at all. It isn't that simple to do it correctly. But, when you learn, it becomes very routine and fast.

Gary

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 05 February 2016

max503 wrote: I followed the directions on the bottle.

WOW.  there IS someone on earth that reads the directions!

 

GOOD JOB!  (being cautious is also GOOD!)

 

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max503 posted this 06 February 2016

So. Can I use Kiwi Mink Oil Boot Wax to lube the inside of the case mouths, then leave it on the case without washing it off? I have a home made inside expander and flaring die. Just did two cases and it took more effort than I care to subject a case to. They need to be lubed and I don't want to go through the lube, wash, dry cycle again.

Just a note here. I'm getting back into this after a several year shooting layoff. It's all coming back to me now - slowly. Good thing I kept notes.

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delmarskid1 posted this 06 February 2016

When I lube inside of case mouths I wipe them with a bit of rag over a small screw driver. I leave it on. My cast bullets are kind of greasy anyway.

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max503 posted this 06 February 2016

delmarskid1 wrote: When I lube inside of case mouths I wipe them with a bit of rag over a small screw driver. I leave it on. My cast bullets are kind of greasy anyway.What lube do you use?

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onondaga posted this 06 February 2016

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=708>max503

Kiwi Mink Oil... ” Just did two cases and it took more effort than I care to subject a case to."

Your cases likely take more effort not because of the Mink Oil. The main ingredient in the Mink Oil is Lanolin and Silicone and these ingredients are used in many of the successful, easy to use case sizing lubricants.

The most common cause for more effort being needed is not the lube but is the surface condition of the brass. Metal oxides, powder fouling and polishing media fowling inside the neck are what cause more effort to be needed. Gleaming clean lubricated brass is certainly the easiest to size.

I remedy the fouling problem after case lubing with a brush inside the neck before sizing.  The caliber selection of brushes in the inexpensive Frankford Arsenal Neck lube kit is good. The lube with the kit is OK but the brushes are what cleans out the fouling from inside necks very well and lessens the effort you speak of. Just a couple of strokes does it. The kit:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/197010/frankford-arsenal-case-neck-lubricator>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/197010/frankford-arsenal-case-neck-lubricator

We all want easy answers in reloading, the answers generally evolve extra work with the right stuff and following directions. Reloading is a persnickety hobby.

You have a common problem and nothing new at all. Similar kits are available for inside neck brushing from other makers too and plain barrel cleaning brushes of the right caliber work fine too.

Gary

 

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max503 posted this 06 February 2016

It's all coming back to me now. This is what that jar of motor mica is for.

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onondaga posted this 06 February 2016

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=708>max503

The motor mica helps, but it really is the brushes alone that scrub the gunk out of the necks if you have gunk.

Actually, most motor mica is very coarse compared to the powdered mica that comes with the Frankford Arsenal kit. The kit stuff is excellently fine. But as I said the brushes are more important and the brush holder for the kit is very easy to hold and use at the bench.

Gary

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delmarskid1 posted this 07 February 2016

max503 wrote: delmarskid1 wrote: When I lube inside of case mouths I wipe them with a bit of rag over a small screw driver. I leave it on. My cast bullets are kind of greasy anyway.What lube do you use? I use the same lube on the inside of my case necks that I use on the cases when I size them. I bought a pint bottle of Wynn's motor honey 20 years ago and it' almost half gone. “Oh dear, what a world, what a world!"

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onondaga posted this 07 February 2016

http://www.castbulletassoc.org/view_user.php?id=708>max503

I want to add that just putting mica or any lube over the gunk inside necks doesn't help. Brushing out the gunk is way more important if you have gunk making your sizing effort heavy.

Reloaders with more money to throw at the problem are very successful with wet rotary tumbling with stainless steel pins and soap with citrus.  Those methods clean inside neck gunk out very well.

The Frankford Arsenal Kit and scrubbing the case a few times up and down on the brush  to brush inside the neck ended your problem inexpensively and easily for me.

Ignoring the problem has another ill effect also. Sizing volumes of brass with gunk inside the necks causes premature wear of the expander on your sizing. That expander will lose diameter due to abrasive wear and eventually have to be replaced because you get insufficient neck expansion to seat bullets with your bullet seating die.

I had to replace the expander on a 223 die after I wore it out from gunky brass. That is when I got the Frankford Kit and fixed the gunk problem. It made sizing smooth and easy when before it was horrible and hard with gunk.

Gary

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max503 posted this 07 February 2016

I try to keep away from any kind of dry brushing, tumbling, cleaning operations. I think the dust generated by such operations is a major source of lead exposure. I prefer wet or wiping to keep things clean.

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delmarskid1 posted this 09 February 2016

I have wound fine steel wool around a worn out bore brush and lubed while scrubbing. I got no dust because of the lube and it went pretty quick. Just jab it in and out a few times. The trick seems to not use too much. Goop gets in the case's insides. Honestly I've polished my expander buttons down till they don't do anything and expand with the Lyman M-die as a separate operation on cartridges that I load often. I use a turret press or a progressive so it's no big deal for me.

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Newt posted this 09 February 2016

I can assure you that a guy can get into wet tumbling for less than dry tumbling. I used to always wash my cases by hand, or spend the time cleaning them out and off with a rag. Decided to speed up the operation and priced tumblers/media. Ended up with a harbor freight rock polisher and a couple lbs of stainless pins. I deprime with Lee universal and after a little over an hour they look like new inside and out. I don't even have to clean primer holes.

You do have to wait for them to dry. But it has afforded me the ability to not have to use lube on the case necks.

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Dirtybore posted this 12 May 2016

I've been using the Lee lube in a tube for both inside the case necks and on the outside of the cases. Thoght it's not necessary, I do I wipe off the outside of the cases with a paper towel. I use a Q-tip to apply the lube to the inside of the case neck.

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