Bore Rider bullet and alox question

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  • Last Post 10 November 2007
DonT posted this 10 August 2007

I want to start using a bore rider (saeco) bullet in my 30-40 Krag rolling block.  I have a buddy that cast me some up and here is my thought:

I want to seat them in the bore first then use a primed, fire formed case that has been charged with Alliant 2400 (18.5 grains) held in place with a 1” sq. piece of tissue paper.

Anyone see a problem with poaring only enough alox in a pan to lube the bullets slightly above the driving band?  This would, hopefully, keep the lube from building up on the dies and make the lubed bullets easier to handle.

The bullets are designed for gas checks but I am going to try shooting them as cast (.310 dia driving band and .308 on the bore rider section).

Anyone see any flaws in my thinking or problems that might occur.  Speed should be right around 1200 fps and the bullets weigh in at 190grs.....

Thanks in advance.. DonT:cool:

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CB posted this 11 August 2007

I, and a lot of others, tried pan lubing with Alox-the NRA formula lube, many years ago. We reached agreement that something bad happened to the lube when heating it up and pan lubing-I don't know WHAT happened, but accuracy went away and some of us got some leading. Now this was ~30 year ago or so, and since then I've put Alox on bullets by hand with fingers, or in the lubrisizer. Finger lubing isn't all that bad, 100 bullets in 20 minutes or so. 

Isn't your bore rider section closer to .301"? .308” would generally be a lot harder to breech seat.

Otherwise I see no problems with your method.

Good luck and keep us informed.

joe brennan

 

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dromia posted this 11 August 2007

Don, are you meaning the standard alox beeswax stick lube or is it liquid alox you intend to use?

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DonT posted this 13 August 2007

dromia,

 

I am starting with the liquid alox and then may pick up some of the NRA formula stick lube to pan lube.  It is my understanding this is fairly soft stuff and works well using a modified cartridge as a cookie cutter.

 

DonT

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dromia posted this 13 August 2007

Bull Shop over on cast boolits gave this method which I've tried and find effective for keeping the LA off the nose.

Sparingly smear some LA onto two pieces of glass, anything impervious will do, lay the boolits on their side on one sheet, lay the other on top of the bollits and lightly roll them back afore 'till covered.

So long as the alox isn't too thickly spread thenit will keep of the nose. for me the only down side of LA is it can build up on the seating stem of a die.

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CB posted this 13 August 2007

dromia wrote: Bull Shop over on cast boolits gave this method which I've tried and find effective for keeping the LA off the nose.

Sparingly smear some LA onto two pieces of glass, anything impervious will do, lay the boolits on their side on one sheet, lay the other on top of the bollits and lightly roll them back afore 'till covered.

So long as the alox isn't too thickly spread thenit will keep of the nose. for me the only down side of LA is it can build up on the seating stem of a die.

It looks like you're from England. The owner at Competitor Corp. told me that he still sends the odd pistol, a single shot cannon breech item, to England. He thinks that some SS pistols are still legal there. Is it so?

Thanks;

joe brennan

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dromia posted this 13 August 2007

Hi Joe,

congratulations on the Book BTW, I've thoroughly enjoyed reading and learning from it.

BP pistols are still legal here and there is a thing called section 7.3 where pre 1915 pistols can be kept at deisnated ranges and shot there, I kept my Webley MKVI.

Section 5 dealers will still trade in pistols for human dispatch and starting pistols, I know a rather nice young blonde lady who has a .44 S&W as a starting pistol, she can only buy blanks for it though.

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CB posted this 14 August 2007

dromia wrote: Hi Joe,

congratulations on the Book BTW, I've thoroughly enjoyed reading and learning from it.

BP pistols are still legal here and there is a thing called section 7.3 where pre 1915 pistols can be kept at deisnated ranges and shot there, I kept my Webley MKVI.

Section 5 dealers will still trade in pistols for human dispatch and starting pistols, I know a rather nice young blonde lady who has a .44 S&W as a starting pistol, she can only buy blanks for it though.

Thanks for the information and the kind words. I really hope that you meant “humane".

joe brennan

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Ed Harris posted this 15 August 2007

While the charge is not unsafe, you may find that 18 grs. of current #2400 is more than is wanted for optimum accuracy in a case with the capacity of the .30-40.   I use 15 grs. in my Krag and .303 British, 16 grs. in the .308 Win. and .30-'06.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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WRDSMTH posted this 31 October 2007

I use a clothes pin to hold the nose of the bullet while I apply liquid alox to the grease grooves.I Simply squirt a drop or two in the grooves and use a small artist brush to spread the lubricant evenly.I Place the bullet upright on a piece of wax paper and allow to dry overnight. A second coat can then be applied if needed. This will keep lube out of the seater die. Ocasionally I apply a light coat of liquid alox to the forward driving band of a bullet, or the nose of a bore riding bullet after loading, using the same artist brush. I believe this keeps leading to a minimum.

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DonH posted this 31 October 2007

DonT wrote: I want to start using a bore rider (saeco) bullet in my 30-40 Krag rolling block.  I have a buddy that cast me some up and here is my thought:

I want to seat them in the bore first then use a primed, fire formed case that has been charged with Alliant 2400 (18.5 grains) held in place with a 1” sq. piece of tissue paper.

Anyone see a problem with poaring only enough alox in a pan to lube the bullets slightly above the driving band?  This would, hopefully, keep the lube from building up on the dies and make the lubed bullets easier to handle.

The bullets are designed for gas checks but I am going to try shooting them as cast (.310 dia driving band and .308 on the bore rider section).

Anyone see any flaws in my thinking or problems that might occur.  Speed should be right around 1200 fps and the bullets weigh in at 190grs.....

Thanks in advance.. DonT:cool:  

DonT;

I have no experience with the .30-40 and little with liquid alox. I do have experience with shooting cast bullets breech-seated. I recommend first of all that a bullet to be so used be cast only of a  lead/tin alloy (most likely 20-1 or 25-1) due to the amount of force needed to seat an antimony alloy bullet. Second, a breech-seated bullet fired at less than 1500 fps requires much less lube than has been thought. Given fair-sized lube grooves, proper bullet fit and any good lube, lubing the driving band/lube groove portiion of the bullet should be more than enough lube to prevent leading. I can't say what, if any, effect the gas check shank will have on a bullet breechseated and fired without the check. Alox/beeswax lube should be fine if fingerlubed but I can't say regarding pan-lubing.

Emmert's lube, a blend of beeswax, Crisco and Crisco oil and with the possible of a small amount of anhydrous lanolin will do an excellent job in the velocity range you are looking at.  In addition is is excellent for pan-lubing. The .32 bullet (220 gr) I use has three very small lube grooves and a similar lube  has proven to work well with no leading up to 1450 fps or so. Incindentally, probably 3/4 of the bullet length is engraved by the rifling and only the grooved portiion is lubed. 

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mtgrs737 posted this 07 November 2007

Wdsmith,

I am working on developing a cast bullet load for my 30-30 and just today I brushed on a coating of LLA on the driving band of the loaded bullets because I am afraid of leading.  However all of the posts I have read have said at the low velocities that I am dealing with (1500FPS)leading should not be a problem.

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Wineman posted this 10 November 2007

Ed,

I was thinking of 17 gr of Aliant 2400 in my Finn M39 with your LEE 312-165 TL using LEE liquid Alox and gas checked out of WW. The brass is neck sized only, the bore is 0.301/0.3115. Would you step back a grain or two?

Dave

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