NOE 227 80 SP (IMPROVED)

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  • Last Post 13 September 2016
OU812 posted this 05 May 2016

Gas check shank shortened to .045 so that gas check fits flush with first drive band. Tip of bullet has been squared to reduce pesky finning...easier casting. Bore ride diameter increased to .221. This  loooong  .224 caliber bullet shoots very well in a 1/12 twist barrel.

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joeb33050 posted this 06 May 2016

I keep adding total bullet length to .82". Greenhill says a bullet .82” long needs a 9” twist.

I'd like to try some of these, at least 25,  in one of my 22-250  barrels with 12” twist.

Joe  Brennan 605 Water Oak Blvd. Lady Lake FL 32159

Thanks; joe b.

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OU812 posted this 06 May 2016

Greenhill and all others were wrong . 

My mold has been sent off to be milled .035 shorter. I will send you a few when it returns. Softer 10 bhn alloys work verygood at sub 1800 velocities using Titegroup and other quick burning powders.

....

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Paul Pollard posted this 08 May 2016

Finally. The Greenhill formula has been discarded.  "Conventional Wisdom” with the Greenhill formula is hard to shake. 

Thank you for doing some real world testing as opposed to what is carved in stone.

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frnkeore posted this 08 May 2016

OU812, Have you or, could you measure the twist in that barrel?

The bullet/twist combo is so far off that it would be helpful to make sure the twist is accurate.

I've shot bullets that have a stability factor of 1.2 - 1.3 (Miller) and while they reach the target, they show obvious to sever tipping @ 200.

I get a stability factor of under 1.1 @ 1400 fps and just over 1.1 @ 1800 fps for your bullet/twist on two different calulators, neither are the Greenhill.

Frank

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joeb33050 posted this 08 May 2016

Paul Pollard wrote: Finally. The Greenhill formula has been discarded.  "Conventional Wisdom” with the Greenhill formula is hard to shake. 

Thank you for doing some real world testing as opposed to what is carved in stone. I didn't discard the Greenhill formula, and I ain't alone. At ranges up to at least 500 yards, I've never known of or seen a bullet fail to stabilize when greenhill says it will, and I've never known or seen a bullet fail to at least tip markedly when Greenhill says it won't stabilize. The NOE 277-80 bullet won't stay on the paper at 100 yards in my 3 rifle barrels, all 12” twist and a 12” twist pistol. All 22-250. That's real world testing.  (John Kenneth Galbraith coined the phrase “Conventional Wisdom", and he never discarded Greenhill or his formula.) The rumors of Greenhill's discarding are greatly exaggerated.

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OU812 posted this 09 May 2016

I double checked twist rate by pushing cleaning rod down barrel and it is a 1-12 twist barrel. By looking at bullet holes there was some slight tipping of 75 gr bullet , but grouping was good @ 100 yards...maybe grouping will be lots worse @ 200 yards?

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joeb33050 posted this 09 May 2016

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joeb33050 posted this 09 May 2016

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joeb33050 posted this 09 May 2016

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joeb33050 posted this 09 May 2016

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joeb33050 posted this 09 May 2016

The target shows unstable bullets, going through the paper, when they did, sideways. I spent half an hour with the Striker when I got home, checking twist with tight patches and brushes. It's around a 12” twist. It's not LESS than 12", could be 1/2” more. Close enough for me and Greenhill. This is real world testing of conventional wisdom, supporting Greenhill. And it ain't hard. Greenhill isn't discarded.

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OU812 posted this 10 May 2016

All of my groups were shot at @100 yards without filing off the pointed nose. You should file or cut the gas check shank down “square” so that “Hornaday” Copper gas check fits nearly flush with first band, seat the gas check “square” and use “LBT soft lube” in grease groove. 1-20 alloy groups best for me so far, but harder 13 bhn alloy shows improvement with with more velocity or pressure.

With good loading practices and concentric rounds most people like you can shoot this bullet accurately Joe.

BTW ...seat the bullet long in case (grease groove exposed) so that front band jams against rifling when chambered.

.....

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OU812 posted this 10 May 2016

While waiting for my shorter mold to arrive I cut a few more bullets.

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OU812 posted this 10 May 2016

20-1 alloy bullets

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OU812 posted this 16 May 2016

Joe, Your bullets are in the mail. These are cast using 1-20 alloy and trimmed by hand. I am not familier with a 22-250, but about 7 grains of Tite Group should work.

BTW ...Wipe bases dry to remove excess lube, seat the bullet long in case (grease groove exposed) so that front band jams against rifling when chambered. Bullets are sized to .225 using LBT lube and Hornaday gas check.

Enjoy :) Keith S.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 16 May 2016

great stuff, guys ... this should be interesting ...

most likely a ” hmmmm ... ” moment...

or as some might say::

” what the ... ”

ken

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OU812 posted this 16 May 2016

These bullets WILL SHOOT accurately in a 1-12 twist barrel...bulge or no bulge 

Watch and see!

...

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OU812 posted this 16 May 2016

Joe,

I want you to shoot these in your 1/12 twist barrel, but try saving and shooting a few in your 1-14 twist rifle also.

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joeb33050 posted this 17 May 2016

OU812 wrote: Joe,

I want you to shoot these in your 1/12 twist barrel, but try saving and shooting a few in your 1-14 twist rifle also.I have 2, 22-250 rifle barrels and a Striker pistol, all 12” twist as I measure them. I don't have a 14” twist barrel. The Savage catalog shows all 22-250 rifle barrels are 12” twist. I'm a little concerned about measuring twist with a tight patch on a cleaning rod. I think that if there's an error in measuring, it's toward INCREASING the inches per turn. A 12” twist barrel might measure 13” if the patched end slips, but it will never measure 11” because it can't make the revolution in fewer inches. That said, I'm getting between 12” and 12.5” per turn in these barrels. That and the Savage data pretty well convince me that the twist is 12". I wonder what the tolerance in inches is in twist rate.   Thanks; joe b.

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Paul Pollard posted this 18 May 2016

This was test from about one year ago with 2 new powders (for me), LT30 and LT32. LT30 is very close to H4198 in metered grains and velocity, but I started lower. The rifle is a 6ppc with a 1:14 twist. Bullet is the MX2 Eagan at .810” long. Greenhill formula says it's too long. As can be seen on the target, it did start out unstable with tipping. With increases in the powder charge, the velocity increased and the tipping went away. I'm sure that the BC is not the optimum if the bullet were completely stable, but the accuracy satisfies me.

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