ACCURACY RECIPES
- 3.3K Views
- Last Post 19 November 2016
"WILL NOT Indexing the bullet in the chamber. Precisely controlling alloy casting temperature or anything else Changing bullet alloy Changing bullet hardness Matching chamber pressure and bullet hardness Changing the lube Reaming the chamber throat. Making a die to match the reamed chamber throat and swaging/tapering the bullets. Re-crowning the barrel Lapping the barrel “
Items listed above will sometimes change dramatically how a rifle shoots..... in some rifles, not all.Groups can be cut in half when they do make a difference. These ARE NOT the crucial ones either. Without knowing what and how to do so, you probably won't find them.
There are more items in the can list also! Case capacity (all the same capacity) Ensuring the bullet goes into the throat concentric with the bore Proper alloy Non viscous lube etc.
Attached Files
Agood fitting and round bullet is important. I like a bullet that seats longer into throat.
A gas check that is installed flat and square is important. Raised sprue cuts can hurt. The Lee sizers do well “IF" punch is faced off flat or slightly concave. NOE makes a precise push rod that has less burrs. Sizing nose first in the RCBS style sizers do well also if you use a good matching nose punch.
Most RCBS style lube machines that size and install gas check base first will size bullets “off center” causing non concentric rounds.
Lube base first using a RCBS sizer that is .001-.002 larger than sized bullet. The Over size die only lubes the bullet and does not size.
Check concentricity of loaded rounds and correct...especially bore riding rounds.
Good shooting technique
Fouled barrel is bad...OK.
Bases of these bullets were sanded square in drill press before seating gas check. Sanding removes flaws...I have shot my best groups with these.
Attached Files
barrel quality ..
the most successful mj bench shooter in history buys ( shilen ... buys? ) ... barrels by the dozen ...
when i wuz racing toy cars for a big race we would dyno several engines ...some were just better ... we were almost overcome with guilt ... ( g ) ...
as joeb sez, once the groups get down to the magic 1.5 moa the mountain gets steeper real quick .... i have talked with a few of the 1/2 moa club and their secrets are different .... shouldn't the secrets all be the same secrets ??
such fun...
and yes, some of joeb's ” wont ” list might be useful if it would fix a shortcoming ...if you buy a hand-lapped lilja barrel you don't need to relap the whole barrel ....but if you take 10 factory ruger/ barrels you would improve 8 of them by lapping ... maybe down to 1.5 moa groups !!
btw, once you get below 1.5 moa you really need a barrel vibration adjustable tuner ... eeeeek !!!
ken
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"WILL NOT
Indexing the bullet in the chamber.
Precisely controlling alloy casting temperature or anything else
Changing bullet alloy
Changing bullet hardness
Matching chamber pressure and bullet hardness
Changing the lube
Reaming the chamber throat.
Making a die to match the reamed chamber throat and swaging/tapering the bullets.
Re-crowning the barrel
Lapping the barrel “
Items listed above will sometimes change dramatically how a rifle shoots..... in some rifles, not all.Groups can be cut in half when they do make a difference. These ARE NOT the crucial ones either. Without knowing what and how to do so, you probably won't find them.
There are more items in the can list also! Case capacity (all the same capacity) Ensuring the bullet goes into the throat concentric with the bore Proper alloy Non viscous lube etc.
Attached Files
Agood fitting and round bullet is important. I like a bullet that seats longer into throat.
A gas check that is installed flat and square is important. Raised sprue cuts can hurt. The Lee sizers do well “IF" punch is faced off flat or slightly concave. NOE makes a precise push rod that has less burrs. Sizing nose first in the RCBS style sizers do well also if you use a good matching nose punch.
Most RCBS style lube machines that size and install gas check base first will size bullets “off center” causing non concentric rounds.
Lube base first using a RCBS sizer that is .001-.002 larger than sized bullet. The Over size die only lubes the bullet and does not size.
Check concentricity of loaded rounds and correct...especially bore riding rounds.
Good shooting technique
Fouled barrel is bad...OK.
Bases of these bullets were sanded square in drill press before seating gas check. Sanding removes flaws...I have shot my best groups with these.
Attached Files
Got data?
Unfortunately, everybody does things to suit his own preference. Most of those things do little to get you accuracy. I have a lifetime of data, just not what you want laid out in targets and information. It takes a few wrong things to defeat your efforts and people all do different things wrong.... each is an individual case. Like Einsteins definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results), what you do determines what results you get.
Attached Files
Got data?
Unfortunately, everybody does things to suit his own preference. Most of those things do little to get you accuracy. I have a lifetime of data, just not what you want laid out in targets and information. It takes a few wrong things to defeat your efforts and people all do different things wrong.... each is an individual case. Like Einsteins definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results), what you do determines what results you get.
Attached Files
Agood fitting and round bullet is important. I like a bullet that seats longer into throat.
A gas check that is installed flat and square is important. Raised sprue cuts can hurt. The Lee sizers do well “IF" punch is faced off flat or slightly concave. NOE makes a precise push rod that has less burrs. Sizing nose first in the RCBS style sizers do well also if you use a good matching nose punch.
Most RCBS style lube machines that size and install gas check base first will size bullets “off center” causing non concentric rounds.
Lube base first using a RCBS sizer that is .001-.002 larger than sized bullet. The Over size die only lubes the bullet and does not size.
Check concentricity of loaded rounds and correct...especially bore riding rounds.
Good shooting technique
Fouled barrel is bad...OK.
Bases of these bullets were sanded square in drill press before seating gas check. Sanding removes flaws...I have shot my best groups with these.
Attached Files
I have also started nose sizing in the past month. I have an NOE set up that I like better and better as I use it more. I am sizing the noses on 311299s. .301 for the bolt actions and .300 for the single shot. This allows me to seat the bullets out so that the first lube groove is just showing (3006). No data yet Joe but there will be.
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good stuff joeb...
once again it just shows those dumb bullets can't read good ....
ken
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maybe you need to flip the “will” and “will not” data around. You are pretty much guaranteeing mediocre results. How does that get a new person to want to shoot in the CBA matches and do better?
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Doesn't matter who wrote it Joe.......... it's a truth worth repeating, although most people who do such things don't realize what's going on.
It appears that Albert E. didn't say or write that..............
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Doesn't matter who wrote it Joe.......... it's a truth worth repeating, although most people who do such things don't realize what's going on.
It appears that Albert E. didn't say or write that..............
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I like that Joe,so true.
We're in the shooting world, where people believe that one group proves something, or one set of five groups proves something. A world where repeatedly shooting the same load starts to tell us something after many groups. Somewhere around 30 groups we can start to make statements with some semblence of truth. Repeating the same tests and examining the results is the only way to see the picture.
It ain't a truth, it ain't worth repeating, it's a stupid, meaningless statement. Kind of like “Where there's smoke, there's fire.” There's lots of smoke without fire, much of it in the shooting world.
Doesn't matter who wrote it Joe.......... it's a truth worth repeating, although most people who do such things don't realize what's going on.
It appears that Albert E. didn't say or write that..............
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True???? Only an opinion from a few is more like it. You repeat those groups over a whole year or two, every week in the complete temperature range from very hot to very cold in all types of weather, THEN you'll see what goes on and it won't be what YOU think it is. I've done that with many calibers over a lot of years........
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.maybe you need to flip the “will” and “will not” data around. You are pretty much guaranteeing mediocre results. How does that get a new person to want to shoot in the CBA matches and do better?
Bill,
Could you elaborate a little on your second and third sentences. I don't understand.
John
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John, Let's just take one on the “will not” list. Will not use wind flags. Tell me how many at the upcoming weekend shoot do not use wind flags. I'll make a guess and say everybody will be using windflags. Most will be weight segregating cases, uniforming and cleaning cases. Almost all in the Heavy and Unlimited classes will shoot neck turned brass.
How does just banging away in a match without regard to conditions or without fitting the cases to the chamber work for a new shooter. Or would he use his first performance as a baseline and then work on adding things from the “will not” list.
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FWIW::
analyzing results of cast bullet shooting is like watching the finale of the 4th of july fireworks ::
there are so many flashes and bangs and smoke that later you can't recall exactly what happened . or why.
we can take combination A which really is a bad load/ chambering/etc. and optimize every aspect and make it better ( less worse ) and then record that recipe for developing the best combination .
now we go to combination B and find that the magic recipe for A makes things worse . wot thu ???
can't make ice cream the same way you make a good omelet ...
so keep all those list tools; some make ice cream and some make omelets ...
from the above lists of do and don't .... pick the tool for the job :: fix what is broke and don't break what is working .
ken
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