There's a suggestion on the BPCR forum about testing spotting scopes to make comparisons. I wrote this and sent it to Jesse Miller for his input. We're looking for an objective, repeatable way for a lot of people in a lot of places with a lot of different spotting scopes to “measure” them. Wouldn't it be nice if we found a $100 scope that did the job? Keep in mind that I know close to nothing about optics. I typed a sentence in WORD, Times New Roman, and copied it four times, so there's a column of sentences. Top is 12 point, then I changed them to 11, 10, 9 and 8 point. 8 point is small. I printed it. I propose that we set up a paper at 100 yards with a certain sentence in sizes from maybe 16? down to 8 point. The rule is, look through the spotting scope and decide which sentence you can read easily-no guessing. Record the size, ex:10 point, and record the conditions of the light, maybe bright sunny bright cloudy cloudy overcast or bright cloudy overcast and then start collecting these for various spotting scopes. If everybody uses white paper, the same sentences in the same font in the same sizes, then maybe we'll have some objective data to look at. Maybe a not on mirage too. This is a start at least. ?? joe brennan
Testing spotting scopes
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- Last Post 16 April 2019
45-70sharps,
From experience:
For long range BPTR, you do not need a scope that will see bullet holes.
You need a scope that can read MIrage well.
I can tell you that most if not many of the better shooters are using a KOWA 821.
Same goes in HI Power competition. Kowas, and sometimes really high end Zeiss.
beltfed/arnie
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I'm looking for a moderately priced spotting scope to use for 1000 yard BPCR shooting. Any ideas/experience?
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A quick search of the internet says you can get a wireless coded color camera system for $169.00
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I am thinking the real answer to seeing the target is a remote digital camera placed right at the target, transmitting wireless or even a long cable ( shielded wire is cheap enough ) to a laptop. this would even beat Mirage (g).... 15 years ago I bot a surveilance b&w camera and software for under $300 ( ComputerEyes ), probably some stuff out there right now that would do the job ok.
but that is another thread, and this one is showing signs of being useful.
Just a thought ... ken campbell deltawerkes Ken, I was thinking about the same approach a few weeks ago. The remote camera I mean. If a remote camera exists that could send pictures of the target to a monitor or computer could it be used in a match? Are there rules about spotting scopes that would preclude using a remote camera to spot bullet holes? Does the spotting scope have to be an optical device located at the firing line?
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1951 USAF resolution test chart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951USAFresolutiontestchartThe 1951 USAF resolution test chart is a resolution test pattern conforming to ... Number of Line Pairs / mm in USAF Resolving Power Test Target 1951 ... 1951 USAF Glass Slide Resolution Targets | Edmund Optics www.edmundoptics.com/testing-targets/test-targets/resolution-test-tar...Items 1 - 8 of 8 ”€œ Resolution test slides with the 1951 USAF test pattern are available in either positive (chrome ... 1951 USAF Hi-Resolution Target, 2” x 2” Positive ... Pocket USAF Optical Test Pattern | Edmund Optics www.edmundoptics.com/testing-targets/test-targets/resolution-test-tar...2012 Holiday Schedule Our Barrington, NJ and Tucson, AZ offices are closed on Tuesday, December 25th and Tuesday, January 1st for the holidays. Thorlabs - R3L1S4N Negative 1951 USAF Wheel Pattern Test ... www.thorlabs.com ”º Products Home ”º Life Science & MicroscopyThorlabs' R3L1S4N is a negative 3” x 1” resolution test target made from plating chrome on a glass substrate. The 3” x 1” wheel pattern targets have 9 USAF ...
73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia
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Tom, When the testing was being assembled, no participating shooter owned one of these scopes. Joe assembled the individual results (and responses) from a number of different shooters.
I had just bought an Alpen 20-60 and had good results spotting bullet holes at Puyallup on dark rainy March and April mornings.
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I have spent almost my entire adult life looking through high quality telescopes. I am a land surveyor. The best piece of glass I have ever looked through is on a Wild T2 theodolite. It was made in Switzerland in 1968. It has the absolute minimum number of lenses to get the job done. It doesn't have an erector lense and everything seen through it is upside down.
This theodolite is 32 power and is spectacularly clear. The later models with the erector lense are noticeably less clear.
I shoot highpower rifle on a reduced 100 yard course that has the worst light conditions of any place I have shot. The range faces East.
I have a Kowa 80mm scope with the 27 power long eye relief eye piece. It is about as good as you can get without spending $5000. Even with this fine scope there are times I can't see my bullet holes.
I haven't tried the T2.
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I gave up on this test because to do it right I'd need/any tester would need a set of scopes/mounts set up, targets for each, a set of viewers, and testing over different conditions. Otherwise the data has more noise than signal. I started with the notion that a “pretty good” 20X spotting scope will do 98% of what a multibuck scope will do up to 200 yards. Bushnell Sentry vs Kowa. I still hold that notion. LRBP shooters have other needs, so I got an article from Kenny Wasserberger to cover LR scopes. Scopes that will handle most up-to-200-yard needs are many and inexpensive. And that's where most of us do most shooting. I went to a flea market with grandkids and couldn't turn down a Carl Zeiss Jena set of binoculars in one of those leather cases. I think I detected “E. Rommell” scratched inside the leather cover. The binocular/s was/ere in perfect shape, and $25. Back in FL I compared the Zeiss with the $35 Tasco binocular that SWMBO uses to watch crocodiles across the street at canals in the golf field. Tasco beat Zeiss, hands down. No room for discussion. Progress has been made in the last 60 years! (I enhanced the Rommell scratching and delighted an EBay person.) Scopes are more better and cheaper than hen I started shooting. joe b.
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I am thinking the real answer to seeing the target is a remote digital camera placed right at the target, transmitting wireless or even a long cable ( shielded wire is cheap enough ) to a laptop. this would even beat Mirage (g).... 15 years ago I bot a surveilance b&w camera and software for under $300 ( ComputerEyes ), probably some stuff out there right now that would do the job ok.
Just a thought ... ken campbell deltawerkes
I know nothing about cell phones/cameras, but could a cell phone/camera be set up to look at the target, and be turned on and off from the line? joe b.
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“All this is simple physics” I did not know physics was simple.
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Was the Carl Zeiss Victory DiaScope 85 T*FL considered? The BPCR silhouette guys place a lot of value on a scope that can identify mirage accurately.
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Testing spotting scopes and understanding the results of the tests requires a little understanding of the basic physics. All this is is simple physics. Test all scopes under the same exact conditions. To get optimum results out of an outstanding spotter you don't just crank it to max magnification. The best magnification has to be found for the lighting conditions.
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Well..... I see no Alpen data.
Sorry, had you with a KONUS for some reason??????
fixed now;
joe b.
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Is this list complete?
Unless I missed something. What's missing?
joe b.
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Joe,
How did the Swarvosky 80mm do?
Since this mostly concerns the CBA military competitors who shoot only with iron sights and 6x scopes, remember we have to be able to see holes in the black bull. I think seeing clearly between the bars is important.
Dan;
Seeing the black and white bars on the smallest target is the test. When the black white turns into a black burr, one larger is the test result. If -1,#4 bars blur, then -1,#3 is the smallest that can be seen clearly.
I took all the question marks out.
Here's where we are.
joe b. I can't get this forum thing to read .doc files. Attached is the file.
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Joe,
How did the Swarvosky 80mm do?
Since this mostly concerns the CBA military competitors who shoot only with iron sights and 6x scopes, remember we have to be able to see holes in the black bull. I think seeing clearly between the bars is important.
Dan;
Seeing the black and white bars on the smallest target is the test. When the black white turns into a black burr, one larger is the test result. If -1,#4 bars blur, then -1,#3 is the smallest that can be seen clearly.
I took all the question marks out.
Here's where we are.
joe b.
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Hi Guys... just want you all to know what a joy it is to follow along this thread.
I guess the Holy Grail here is to see all of the .22 caliber bullet holes in the Black at 200 yards, and further ” all of the time. “ A high bar indeed, especially considering $$$$ budget.
Kinda like the judge said ... I can't describe pornography exactly, but I can sure know it when I see it ... (g)...
.... and I agree with the one poster who mentioned different results even with the same Model, Brand, etc. etc. When the Weaver 36T ( shooting scope ) first came out, it was such a good price that many of us bot them and were always comparing them at the range ( 50 yards, .22 holes )... all of course could see those holes, but the difference amongst scopes was very large ... some were rejects, and were returned to Karen ( then ) at Weaver service, who agreed they were subpar, and replaced them at N/C .. ... Others were deemed the brightest and highest resolution of anything at the matches, including the Leupolds, Burris, etc. etc.
Some trivia:: the very finest, astounding, amazing, brightest and highest resolution shooting scope I have seen at the matches was a Nightforce ... made me cry, and have wondered if they are all that good, or some not so good.
Something optical I would like somebody to try, on a sunny day, is to ” stop down” the objective lens, ie put a pinhole filter ( piece of plastic with a smooth pinhole would be ok ) over the objective ... the edges of a lens tend to refract slightly out of focus.. that is, not hitting the focus target perfectly ... this COULD result in a higher res/sharper image, just as a good camera lens might do.
I am guessing the compromise diameter of the pinhole would be maybe 1 mm per power .. for a 20X try a 20mm or about 3/4 inch hole ... as well as some really small ones...
Burris I think actually had or has such an adjustment in some hunting scopes ....
I am thinking the real answer to seeing the target is a remote digital camera placed right at the target, transmitting wireless or even a long cable ( shielded wire is cheap enough ) to a laptop. this would even beat Mirage (g).... 15 years ago I bot a surveilance b&w camera and software for under $300 ( ComputerEyes ), probably some stuff out there right now that would do the job ok.
but that is another thread, and this one is showing signs of being useful.
Just a thought ... ken campbell deltawerkes
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you don't need to worry Dan... your scope is good enough
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