22 rimfire

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  • Last Post 28 April 2008
gussy posted this 22 January 2008

I have been trying to find out what the factories use to lube .22 rimfire bullets.  I haven't had any luck on the search engines.  Anyone know?:coffee

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Ed Harris posted this 22 January 2008

CCI uses ordinary paraffin wax with a 160 degree melting point.

Winchester used to use Johnson 700 draw wax on its match ammo, but now seems to be using Rooster Jacket, as is Federal.

Remington uses microcrystalline wax. It is used alone on plated bullets, whereas they tumble plain lead bullets in graphite prior to applying the wax to its unplated bullets.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 22 January 2008

I was told that Remington uses the microcrystalline wax. Some really fine wood working places sell this was, like Lee Valley, some of the knife making supply houses sell the stuff also.

Jerry

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CB posted this 22 January 2008

Ed,

Do you know what the greasy, slimy lube the European manufacturers' are using? Wolf, Eley, Lapua, etc.

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gussy posted this 22 January 2008

Ed, Thanks for the information. It works very well with the .22. Why isn't it used more by reloaders for light/low speed loads? Seems quite simple or am I over simplifying it??

I don't ever recall digging lead out of the bore on a .22;)

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CB posted this 22 January 2008

I never seem to have leading problems in any of my 22s.

Jerry

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Ed Harris posted this 23 January 2008

Dan Willems wrote: Ed,

Do you know what the greasy, slimy lube the European manufacturers' are using? Wolf, Eley, Lapua, etc.

I was told by a chemist at the FBI laboratory years ago (1970s) that the lube on the old Lesmok and EZXS match ammo prior to WWII was mutton tallow and beeswax, exactly the same as used by the U.S. Army during the blackpowder era. I believe that the slimy lube used by Eley, RWS, Wolf and Lapua seems also to be some sort of tallow with either natural beeswax or synthetic and a calcium stearate thickener.   

When I was unable to get beeswax I substituted a 50-50 mix of anhydrous lanolin and paraffin, equal parts by melted volume for the beewax in blackpowder lube recipes.  I then blended this again in equal parts by melted volume with Crisco vegetable shortening for BP cartridge rifles.  Nice consistency to go through the lubricator-sizer very similar to SPG.  

If you are unable to get anhydrous lanolin, ask your pharmacy order Fougera brand Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant. This is used as a base for preparing salves and ointments.  Carefully melt this in the oven at 250-275 degs. F.  The purpose is to heat to drive off the incorporated water, but remain below flash point.   Hold the mixture molten in the oven for at least 2 hours, then let it cool slowly overnight in the oven.    After that you can remelt and use to blend your lube.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Ohio Hunter posted this 25 January 2008

Ed. Do you think the water in the topical lubricant would be a problem in BP lube? I figure we worry about keeping the fouling soft and clean fouling with water a little tiny bit in the lube might be helpfull. Then again my figuring has got me into trouble before. Most if not all bp shooting I do is in ML. Jay

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CB posted this 25 January 2008

Thanks Ed.  And thanks also for the lanolin tip...................Dan

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Ed Harris posted this 28 January 2008

The small lanolin percentage in the topical lubricant “should” not be a problem in blkackpowder lubes, but since you need to melt it anyway, it is little trouble to do so in the oven and safely drive off the water for a few hours at a melt temperature well above boiling point, but below flash point of the lanolin.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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Crooked Creek posted this 25 April 2008

Has anyone tried a product called “Fluid Film", either as a constituent of a home-made brew, or simply rubbing some ( at the range just prior to firing ) on the nose of loaded cartridges or 22 rimfire ? Or, by treating the rifle bore with it prior to shooting ? I have some in bulk, which would be less messy than the spray. It's pretty slimmy stuff and I plan to give it a try one of these days.

I have seen 22 rimfires lead...mostly in the area just at and after the throat. You can see it with bore scope. I had two traces ( little strips about 1/8” long ) show up on a patch this morning when cleaning a C. Sharps High Wall. They too were just ahead of the chamber. I was experimenting by cleaning it with Fluid Film on a patch, by the way.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 25 April 2008

Hi.. re:  computer mouse:: be sure to try an optical  mouse, this references a reflective light to drive your cursor.  walmart has them under $20 I think.  I use them in our dirty machine shop  with 0 error... some of the ” latest gadgets” are worth the hassle.. (g) ...


re:  rimfire leading ... yep, they do, and the  ” little ring just ahead of the case ” is almost always present, and does affect the shooting, at the very top competition level.  Many good shooters feel ya gotta keep it cleaned out, and just as many will swear that the rifle won

FWIW, about 10 years ago Federal produced the most astoundingly accurate target .22 ever made before, and maybe since... you of course had to find the lucky lot numbers ... I had 2 cases of this stuff, I quit shooting .22 when I ran out .. spoiled ... I still have a brick or two left, once in a while I shoot a 3 shot group just to prove it was not a dream.  It was Gold Medal, the stuff with the dimple ... beware, the Gold Medal after that year or 2 is no where near as good... 1, it seems the run was for a rimfire world champs... and 2, Federal ownership changed ... ........ anyway, Federal never had a good lubricant at that time, so your shooting went kind of like this:::  9 bulls exactly perfect, then a ” purge” shot... or something ...


Today<'s Eley 10X may be as good ... certainly the scores are slightly better ...  but so are the scopes, the rests, and experience .... just some trivia, ken campbell, iowa

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Crooked Creek posted this 25 April 2008

 Thanks Ken. It is (WAS ?) an HP optical mouse. It took a spill last night from the desk onto the tile floor. It must have landed on it's head, 'cause I think that mouse is in critical condition and the prognosis is not good. Two tooth picks are acting like return springs for the right and left clicks...not very sensitive ! A replacement is in order.

 In the late 80's and early 90's we were doing some 22 LR competitive group shooting at the Benchrest Rifle Club of St. Louis when the NBRSA was sanctioning such matches. This was before Federal had introduced their premium line and almost everyone shot Eley Tenex (and later Benchrest Gold), and swore it was the only way to go. I like to experiment, so I tried anything I could get my hands on. Amongst a bunch of other stuff, I picked up some Lapua Master from Champions Choice that worked pretty well in my rifle, better than anything else at the time. At that time there were no two diameters to choose from. After we (or I, maybe) quit the 22 LR group matches, I aquired some of the Russian Olimp-R, Temp (rifle and pistol), and Biathalon. While the Temp rifle shot as good as, if not a little better than the Lapua Master, the Olimp-R was better than anything I had shot in my rifle. I wish I would have picked up some of the early Federal stuff just to see how my rifle would respond to it, but I agree that the quality of then will not be back in the Federal line. I hear some people are having some good luck with some of the Wolf stuff, may have to experiment a little more. Like you, Ken, every once in a while I break it out to see if it and I can still do it...it's a lot of fun !

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CB posted this 26 April 2008

Roger

Haven't heard of Fluid Film before.  Looks like a good rust preventative.  Let us know how it works on 22s.  I've never found any kind of lube or wax to make 22lr shoot better groups, but you never know.  Does Fluid Film work good for anything else?  Thanks................Dan

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Crooked Creek posted this 26 April 2008

Dan, Fluid film is touted to be primarily a rust/corrosion preventative, lubricant, and release agent. I got onto it about two years ago when I got some samples when I was still working. It is solvent free, all natural (from wool lanolin), and has a 450 degree F. flash point. I got both a spray can and some in bulk. The spray tends to be a little messy and bubbles for a bit after spraying. It's good for what sprays tend to be convenient for, but IF there is good application in firearms (other than as a rust preventative), the bulk may be easier to work with. It is a very viscous liquid, maybe about like 90 weight gear lube, or so. When I was playing around on the web and saw some of the comments and testimonials, outside of the manufacturer's site, I thought it might be worth asking on the forum, and maybe trying a few things myself. The release agent aspect is what I'm intrigued by in terms of “bore lubrication", either as a pre-treatment or to apply to either center or rimfire bullets. They use it on snow blades, undersides of lawn mower decks, and on anything else that “stuff” tends to stick to, and it's used alot in marine applications. I don't know if I'm just fooling myself with “wishful thinking” because I want to believe it, but the few times I've run it through both dirty and clean barrels, it sure seems to pass a patch through smoother and with less effort (nothing scientific, like using a scale, just feel) that other solvents and oils using the same patch/jag combinations. It may just be my pipe dream in the making, but I'm going to play around a little and see what happens, may even do a little chrono comparisons on both cast and rimfire when I have time. In the mean time, if anybody can relate some experiences, let's hear it !

Ken, Picked up a Logitech wireless laser mouse at Sam's Club this afternoon. Took about two seconds to install, has a lot more features than the original HP unit and I'm using it right now, and in a much better frame of mind than I was yesterday. I now have to decide on one of three options: 1) Hope that it is more rugged when it takes a header onto the tile floor. 2) Keep the wife away from it (she knocked the old onto the floor). 3) Tether the mouse to the desk so it comes up about an inch short of the floor when the wife knocks it off the desk. Option three seems to be the safest for the mouse and me, but then it's no longer “wireless"....of sorts ! Life is good !!!

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Ed Harris posted this 28 April 2008

Ohio Hunter wrote: Ed. Do you think the water in the topical lubricant would be a problem in BP lube? I figure we worry about keeping the fouling soft and clean fouling with water a little tiny bit in the lube might be helpfull. Then again my figuring has got me into trouble before. Most if not all bp shooting I do is in ML. Jay The wee bit of water added for smoth consistency to ease blending is not a problem with blackpowder lubes where you are going to clean soon after firing anyway.  You want to drive off the excess moisture when blending lubes used for smokeless powder, where you will be tempted to put the gun away without cleaning.  That greatly reduces the risk of any rusty surprises!

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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