What is the "Perfect" cast .30 cal subsonic bullet for a 30-30

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  • Last Post 19 November 2008
zooly posted this 23 January 2008

I have been looking for the “perfect” cast .30 cal subsonic rifle bullet.  I thought I'd found it in the NEI 142.308AB from the early '80's, but I can't find the mold or any info on where  to find one.  NEI has been zero help, after 2 calls & a personal letter.  What about the 311403.  Does anyone still make something like the “Alberts Schuetzen Plinker", or the “Welsh #15-309B that Bro. Harris wrote about in F.S. # 40?

I'm open to all ideas on this subject.

Thanks

zooly

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TRKakaCatWhisperer posted this 28 January 2008

Hmmmm. What dimensions does 'perfect' have? Accuracy? Noise (lack of)? Terminal effect on __ ?

With GC or without (I ASSUME without as it's subsonic).

What rate of twist?

What weight (approx)?

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Ed Harris posted this 29 January 2008

I've had pretty good luck with the NEI #82 in the .30-30 with 6 grs. of Bullseye, in the Krag and .303 British with 7 grs. of Bullseye and in the .308 Win and '06 with 8 grs. of Bullseye.   It drops from my mould .314 as-cast and 132 grs. in wheelweights.  I shoot it as-cast, no GC, tumble-lubed in Lee Liquid Alox.  Also works fine in my .32 S&W Long revolvers and as a subsonic blooper load in my bunny rifle of that caliber with 1.5 to 1.8 grs. of Bullseye.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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linoww posted this 29 January 2008

I use similar charges to Mr Harris,but with 700x because I have a lot of it.I use the SAECO #630 I have in a four cavity block.It is a 140g FP plainbase bullet that casts about .310 in a lino/ww mix.It looks almost identical to the Welsh bullet you ar talking about.It shoots well in most 30's I have tried it in at lower velocities.It shoots well in a Ruger 77 in 7.62 X 39 with 8.5 of AL-8,but is not subsonic.Its my “go to” plinkalot bullet for all 30's.

 

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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linoww posted this 12 March 2008

I found the last targets shot with my SAECO #630 4-cav ( available on the traditional bullet list) in my 1903 Springfield with a lyman 48 on the back.All at 100 yds.This is about average (or a bit better) than this bullets shoots in my 30-06 military rifles.

The target on the left was with 10g of IMR Trailboss.It is two 5 shot groups with the same load.The one the right was with 12.0 of 2400.They are  sonic,but I have not run them over my Oehler to check them out.

 

Geo.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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CB posted this 18 March 2008

Zooly,

What are you going to do with this subsonic 30-30 bullet? Plus what type of rifle or pistol are you planning on using?

Then what are going to use this for? You have to keep the bullet speed below 1130 fps, that should be effective in a 30-30 rifle.

I shoot a lot of subsonics in my 10/22T rifle, it really isn't that quiet. My middle son has a Rugger pistol that has an integrated Arc Angel, and that pistol is quiet, but you still hear it, none of this TV whizzing past with no noise.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

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Ed Harris posted this 18 March 2008

miestro_jerry wrote: I shoot a lot of subsonics in my 10/22T rifle, it really isn't that quiet. My middle son has a Ruger pistol that has an integrated Arc Angel, and that pistol is quiet, but you still hear it, none of this TV whizzing past with no noise. 

Lower noise signature requires:

1) use of a fast burning powder, and 

2) using minimum charge weight to ensure reliable bullet muzzle exit consistent with acceptable projectile stability, and  

3) a long enough barrel to provide sufficient expansion ratio to ensure that the bullet is no longer accelerating, but has begun to “slow down," so that there is low muzzle exit pressure.

Eliminating the super-sonic “crack" the bullet makes when passing a nearby object only requires the bullet be subsonic. But lowest noise signature requires you drop projectile veloicity farther below that, to ensure that exit velocity of propellant gases at the muzzle will be subsonic also.  

There is about a 10dB drop in the noise level of .38 Special or .45 ACP ammunition fired from a  24 inch or longer rifle length barrel muzzle, when the velocity of the handgun ammunition when fired from the rifle is reduced from about 1050-1080  fps to a lower level well below 900 fps.

While you will not get the movie “pffffff!"  You can reduce the measured peak pressure decibel levels enough that they start blending in with suburban background noise, so it is much less noticeable, doesn't carry as far and won't disturb the neighbors. 

The factory-produced recipe is to use .38 Special midrange wadcuters or to handload cast lead bullets with not more than about 3 grs. of fast burning powder such as Bullseye in the Marlin Cowboy II or rifle with 24 inch or longer barrel.  Keep the rifle velocity of the handgun ammo when fired in the rifle less than about 900 fps and its noise level is almost like shooting standard velocity .22 LR from a 20” sporting rifle. 

 Not “quiet” but certainly mild and it remains accurate and effective. 

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 18 March 2008

I think I'd look seriously at the RCBS 150 grain Cowboy bullet for what you're after.

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linoww posted this 18 March 2008

I think I'd look seriously at the RCBS 150 grain Cowboy bullet for what you're after.

 

How are the dimensions on that bullet?? I haven had one to check out yet,but it looks like a good one.

 

geo.

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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j35nut posted this 18 March 2008

linoww wrote: I think I'd look seriously at the RCBS 150 grain Cowboy bullet for what you're after.

 

How are the dimensions on that bullet?? I haven had one to check out yet,but it looks like a good one.

 

geo.

Hi I bought one a few years ago, it does 310 -301 with WW +2%,  shoots really well with 820 or 4227,I bought another one last year and it goes 310- 300, I had a Internet friend ream the nose to .302, but haven't had a chance to try it yet.   good shooting 

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linoww posted this 19 March 2008

"Hi I bought one a few years ago, it does 310 -301 with WW +2%,  shoots really well with 820 or 4227,I bought another one last year and it goes 310- 300, I had a Internet friend ream the nose to .302, but haven't had a chance to try it yet."  

thanks for the dimension info,it sounds good.I'll have to pick one up in the future.

 

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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w30wcf posted this 12 April 2008

If one is looking for a long range subsonic bullet, I have had good luck with the 311299 and 311284 in a Rem 788 .30-30 (10” twist).

I tested 231, 4756 and Blue Dot in loads that attained 1,100 f.p.s. 

7.0 / 231 gave the best accuracy, followed by 7.8 / 4756 and then 8.5 / Blue Dot.

Groups at 200 yards ran in the 3” to 4” range with slightly oblong bullet holes. Interestingly, they still shot well at the 500 meter steel ram target with plenty of hold over required!

w30wcf

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cityboy posted this 12 April 2008

John

How much Blue Dot did you use?

cityboy

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jimkim posted this 19 November 2008

Time to revive the dead. Have any of you tried this with sabots?  I would be using either Red Dot or W231. Would this round dispatch animals quickly? If not I'll use my 22.

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KenK posted this 19 November 2008

r.e. the RCBS 150 grain bullet.  I have shot some very good groups with that bullet in a Marlin 336XLR.  Not subsonic though.

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linoww posted this 19 November 2008

KenK wrote: r.e. the RCBS 150 grain bullet.  I have shot some very good groups with that bullet in a Marlin 336XLR.  Not subsonic though.

Is this their “Cowboy” bullet? If so what are the dimensions of the nose and body.

 

Thanks George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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KenK posted this 19 November 2008

Yes, the plain base 150 grain cowboy bullet.  I just measured one, .309 and .299.

 

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