Alloy for a 300 Rem Ultra Mag

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  • Last Post 06 February 2008
CB posted this 30 January 2008

I am getting a 300 Remington Ultra Mag rifle, and this thing does put a lot of energy behind each shoot.

 

For CBs, what alloy should I use, and maybe what load behind that alloy should I try. I was thing of a 190 gr CB.

Thanks,

 

Jerry

 

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billwnr posted this 30 January 2008

Lino.

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CB posted this 30 January 2008

I thought so.

Any other suggestions?

 

Thanks,

 

Jerry

 

 

 

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billwnr posted this 30 January 2008

What sort of assumptions have you made for this load?

You're going to need a hard alloy and a reasonably fast powder.  You will have problems with wayyyy excess powder capacity.

Carmichel did a story about 35 years ago on lead bullets in the .300 Mag.  Your problems with excess capacity will be worse.  I don't think he used a filler.  And, I don't have the article with me.

Bill

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CB posted this 30 January 2008

I was thjink of a 200gr bullet pushed to about 2000fps. This would be for Elk hunting.

Jerry

 

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CB posted this 30 January 2008

Wow a ultra mag... I really dont have any suggestions other than to use lino and a bullet with a lot of lube grooves... The problems with the excess case capacity make this a problematic round for sure. May be getting another rifle or just use jacketed... This one is a toughie...

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CB posted this 30 January 2008

Jeff,

Do you have a suggestion on CBs in 30 cal with a lot of lube grooves? I know that this rifle can shoot at 3000 fps with jacketed bullets, it's just figuring out what bullet and what filler.

I think this rifle would be ample for Elk, Bear and Moose with the right CB and powder load.

If I can't achieve my desire effect with this rifle, I may drop back to my 375 H&H Magnum. But I am looking for something that I can get a good shoot off at long range, especially if I am bear hunting, maybe moose and elk too.

Jerry

 

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CB posted this 30 January 2008

How about making an alloy that is closer to Pewter than traditional lead/tin alloys?

I have the tin and copper along with the ability to melt them together. It melts at about 450F. Will the molds tolerate this alloy?

Jerry

 

 

 

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CB posted this 31 January 2008

I guess you really like a challenge Jerry..

I have seen some LBT's that are lube grooves top to bottom, but I dont think you need to go to that extreme. Maybe something that has 3, you need to be careful because you will need to seat the bullet like a jacketed bullet. You need to make sure that the base of the bullet does not extend below the case neck.

I am not sure about the pewter metal, I know that 28bhn monotype will shoot 3000 fps, but that is a 105 gr bullet.

I would go to Veral Smith's LBT website and send him an email and see what he thinks.

What kind of distance are you anticipating with this round??

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billwnr posted this 31 January 2008

I would think your problem would be more with finding the right powder and charge than with the hardness of the bullet. 

If you are using the bullet for hunting then you might ask “do I want a “fmj” or an expanding bullet?".   Lino is on the edge of being the equivalent of an “fmj".   For the bullet you might consider a two piece bullet of a pure lead nose and a lino bottom.  For that some put a piece of buckshot in the bullet cavity, heat it up to melt it and then pour lino on top of it.  Of course it leaves a seam on the side of the bullet but the accuracy you are after is “minute of elk", not minute of angle.

I think the powder selection would be more of a problem.

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CB posted this 31 January 2008

Jeff,

I want to be able to go out to about 200 metres with rifle. Pewter is on the par of armor piercing for hardness. RCBS has a mold 82014 , it's

RCBS 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 30-180-FN 30 Caliber (309 Diameter) 180 Grain Flat Nose Gas Check

or this Lyman bullet:

Lyman 2-Cavity Bullet Mold #311644 30 Caliber (309 Diameter) 190 Grain Silhouette Semi-Point Gas Check

Lots of grooves on these

Bill,

If I could dependability make soft nose bullet from a combination of Lino and pure lead I would do that. The powder charge is still up in the air.

 

Thanks,

 

Jerry

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billwnr posted this 31 January 2008

Hey... the bullets I'm talking about look like #$$%# but they shoot about 2 MOA and expand pretty good on game.   I got my info from Norm Deusterhoff at one of the matches I went to and he sent me some samples and a lot of details on bullet performance and accuracy.  Bullets looked like rejects to me (because of the seam) but they worked good on game.

His powder selection and loads were for a lot smaller cartridge.

Is this your first time trying to make a cast bullet hunting load?

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CB posted this 31 January 2008

Bill,

I have hunted with 308, 243, 45-70 rifles with CBs and many T/C Contender calibers, from 221 Fireball to 35 Remington with CBs.

 

Jerry

 

 

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billwnr posted this 31 January 2008

Just wondered, this question” For CBs, what alloy should I use, and maybe what load behind that alloy should I try. I was thing of a 190 gr CB."  seemed like you were searching for information and were missing the basics.

I don't think I'd use the RCBS 180FN bullet in a .300RUM.    It's an accurate bullet with a flat nose...but not the kind of mass I'd like for a 600lb+ animal.   It's a good deer bullet in a .30/06 in my opinion.

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CB posted this 31 January 2008

miestro_jerry wrote: How about making an alloy that is closer to Pewter than traditional lead/tin alloys?

I have the tin and copper along with the ability to melt them together. It melts at about 450F. Will the molds tolerate this alloy?

Jerry

Heck Jerry, why not just cast some Morgan dollars into CBs?  A 311644 would probably only cost you about $7 a cb, almost as much as A-Square or Barnes Premium African copper bullets. Them silver CBs ought to really make that 300 UltraMag shine, shine, shine!   :)  :cool:  ;)

Don't use lino as the high antimony content turns it into a fragmenting bullet, from what I've read about it ....................Dan

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CB posted this 31 January 2008

I have thought about some Barnes bullets, I have used them in the past in my 300 Win Mag and my 375 H&H Mag, I may have to use them in this application.

 

The 300 RUM is really uncharted territtory as far as CBs go, for copper bullets the limits are in the 3,000FPS category.

Here is the Jacketed bullets infor for the Hornady SPBT 190gr bullet: IMR 4831, Sarting load is 77 gr 2849FPS with 54,300psi and the MAx Load is 82.5gr 3013fps with 63,900psi.

Jerry

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CB posted this 01 February 2008

Forgive me, I broke down and ordered some Nosler 200 Partition bullets for my 300 RUM.

:crapon:

 

Jerry

 

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CB posted this 02 February 2008

There are just some times when you gotta do that..

But I wont hold that against you..:}

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Ed Harris posted this 06 February 2008

miestro_jerry wrote: I was thjink of a 200gr bullet pushed to about 2000fps. This would be for Elk hunting.

Jerry

 

My old friend the late Greg Kalnitzky had quite a bit of experience using cast loads at full power in the .375 H&H and the general parameters which worked for him should give you something to work with.

Linotype, driven hard, tends to “crumble” and the bullets shatter, giving poor penetration.  It would be much better to use wheelweights and then heat treat them to get enough hardness to stand the additional velocity and pressure.

If you want a solid bullet which does not expand, use straight wheelweights, run them at a rate which produces uniformly frosted and well filled out bullets and quench these in water directly from the mould.  They will harden to about 24-28 BHN, depending upon the thermal mass of the projectile and the effectiveness of your quench.

For an expanding bullet use a dilute alloy of 1 pound of wheelweights to five pounds of plumber's lead, cast the bullets, sight cull and heat treat separately in the oven ay 475 degs. F for six to eight hours, then  water quench.  This will give a ductile alloy of about 18-20 BHN in a .30 cal. 200-gr. which will stand .30-40 Krag velocities with decent accuracy for the number of rounds you would shoot in hunting.   I use such loads for deer hunting with good results, but have not killed anything larger with them.   Personally, I'd like to see you use something bigger than a .30 cal. with cast bullets for elk.  Anything which will heave a 250-gr. bullet over 2000 f.p.s. should do fine.

Bullets should be lubed without sizing and gaschecks should be applied and crimped after heat treating, using a sizing die which is large enough not to size the bullet.  A hard lube such as Rooster HVR will work fine.  To provide some lubrication on long bore-riding noses, tumble bullets after filling the grooves, in Rooster Jacket or Lee Liquid Alox.  You can use full jacketed charges with slower powders which will fill the case to 85% or more of load density.   Greg used IMR4350 with 320-gr. cast bullets at about 2200 in the .375 and used them to kill eland, kudu, warthog, waterbuck and zebra, as well as smaller game.

If you look up in back issues of American Rifleman there was an article by George Martin in the 1980s entitled “Cast Bullets In Africa” in which the author used similar loads.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 06 February 2008

Ed,

 

Thats is what I thought, my great uncle Walter used to go big game hunting before WWII and he had several H&H Magnum rifle and a 600 Double Nitro.

He had many lead loads for these rifles. They worked for him. :dude:

 

Thanks,

 

Jerry

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