1911

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alco posted this 5 weeks ago

On the History channel program "Mountain Men" it shows two brothers who I believe are in Idaho shooting a Buffalo and a Black Bear with a 1911.  It doesn't show how many shots for the Buffalo, but two were required for the Bear ( or at least two shots on camera)

Any thoughts or comments for using a 1911 for these two large animals ??

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GBertolet posted this 5 weeks ago

Maybe in 10mm, as a survival or backup gun. A little light for humane kills, unless under ideal conditions.

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Ed Harris posted this 5 weeks ago

I watched the video and was not impressed.   A solid, flat-nosed bullet providing deep penetration will perform better on large animals than modern JHPs, which may fail to reach the vitals. Knowledge of animal anatomy and correct shot placement are essential. Go back and read Sixgun Cartridges and Loads by Keith (1935).

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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M3 Mitch posted this 4 weeks ago

Shooting Black Bears and/or Bison with a .45 ACP, in my mind, is a stunt, forgivable only if odd circumstance forces you into it (and that probably applies only to the bear).  Any round that has little chance of a quick one-shot kill is just under-powered for the job, no ethical hunter will do this.

It's bad enough to pull a stupid stunt like this, it's worse to film it and publish it. 

Ed is completely right as usual.  JHP ammo for the .45 is intended to perform well in anti-personnel shooting, it lacks the penetration needed for either of these animals.  Something like Buffalo Bore would work for a guy who does not handload, but for some weird reason thinks he has to shoot bears with a 1911.

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mashburn posted this 4 weeks ago

I don't know how anyone could watch that show long enough to see any of their stupid stuff. They need to get much better actors-writers-producers and the whole nine yards. The .45 1911 was my issue arm during my 7 years of military service. I love the 1911 and carry one for self defense but it has it's limits and is definitely not a big game round.

Mashburn

David a. Cogburn

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alco posted this 4 weeks ago

A 1911 would never be my first weapon of choice to kill a bear or buffalo.  I'd much prefer a good caliber lever or bolt gun.   I would probably have a revolver for a backup such as a 44 or 45.

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45 2.1 posted this 4 weeks ago

Hmmmm............. Throughout history man has used what he had to kill game or other things. A lot of those items were minimal in terms of power in comparison to what we use today. Let's compare a typical for that era cartridge... the 44 Henry Rimfire to the 45 ACP. The 44 Henry was a nominal 200 (to 216) gr. bullet at somewhere around 1125 fps depending on who you read. Bullet diameter was 0.446". It has slightly more power than conventional 45 ACP loads (again dependent on what load you're shooting). We know from historical writings that it was used much like what that video portrays. Basically our ancestors did this as a necessity and was pretty common. Knowing where to put the bullet is a MAJOR concern here. Penetration is a major issue also. Keep in mind Bell shot and killed over 1000 elephants with a minuscule 7x57 and did so by knowing where to put that bullet to do the job. It might be called a stunt now, but would hardly be one 120 years ago...............................

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Brodie posted this 4 weeks ago

W.D.M.Bell used a number of different rifles to shoot his 1100+ elephants.  Among them the 7x57, 8x57, 303, and 6.5x54 Manlicher Schonauer.  THey all shot long, heavy for caliber bullets, round nosed and full metal jacketed.  Bell also debunked the "knock down power" myth.  He wired the triggers of a 450/400 together so that both barrels went off at same time.  He tried this on bull elephant and when the target did not go down any better than when shot with one of his "lesser" calibers Bell abandoned the heavies for elephant because they did not work any better.  Some times we just have to use what we have and can only wish that we had something bigger or better.

I remember standing on the beach of Hitchenbrook Island with a very angry brown bear within 30 yds of me somewhere behind some alders 12 yards away wishing I had a 458 like the guide did, but only clutching the 300 Win. Mag in my hands.  I knew that if that bear came out at us and I hit him in the head he would fall on me.  I really wanted a rifle that would either knock the bear out of the way or me out of the bear's way.  Oh, it was after mid night and we were on our way back to the boat when we jumped Mr. Bear.  It all came out all right nobody including the bear got hurt.  Sometimes you just have to use what you have with you.

 While I was there the guide told me a story about an Eskimo (Inuit) native who had been hunting seals.  He was successful and while on his way home in a snow storm he was accosted by Mama Polar Bear and her two grown kids.  All he had was his 22Hornet seal gun.  When the snow cleared there were three dead bears and one live Innuit seal hunter.  That one happened to work out.

B.E.Brickey

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shastaboat posted this 4 weeks ago

Some years ago while cow elk hunting in Colorado my brother dispatched a down cow with a 45ACP.  I think he was using a 185 gr HP.  Did the trick but sure ruined a bunch of meat.  I told him if he ever did that again to do a head shot and not a heart lung shot.

 

Because I said so!

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M3 Mitch posted this 3 weeks ago

Bullet placement is indeed king.  But very little 45 ACP factory ammo is intended for game, it's intended for either target practice or defensive use against man.  Maybe Buffalo Bore makes a hard-cast round? I would venture a guess that one of Ed's "beer keg" designs at about 230 grains, with a flat point, cast in a hard alloy, would work on a bear or a bison, although, still, unless you are dispatching an already down but not yet out animal, in my mind it's a stunt, and I have always viewed "stunt hunting" as déclassé to say the least. I think we owe it to the sport to use an adequate caliber that can reasonably be expected to make a clean kill.

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Brodie posted this 3 weeks ago

Colleen Reeder (Gary Reeder's wife) is a big promoter of "USE ENOUGH GUN" and yes she hollers it and is adamant about it.  Fact is most hunters are not willing to wait or try to better "engineer" a better shot.  They want something that will flatten the beasty no matter the angle or range.  If you are going to use a smaller caliber weapon you need to have the patience and ethics to wait until you can do the job with what is in your hand or hands.  Unfortunately, Arizona will not let me use my 5 inch mortar (with shoulder stock) or my 105 Howitzer any more for rabbit hunting.

B.E.Brickey

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alco posted this 3 weeks ago

You and my wife are in total agreement on hunting weapons, the bigger the better.

I am of the opinion that I would never use a 1911 to kill a large animal except in an emergency situation.

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