.32 H&R Magnum in "The Bunny Gun"

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Ed Harris posted this 21 March 2008

I decided to rechamber the longer 26-inch .32 S&W Long barrel for my Bunny Gun to the .32 H&R Magnum.   I did so because I have another 18-inch barrel in .32 ACP which is more handy, but as accurate and better suited for very light “.30 cal. CB Cap” loads I like.  I thought that because the .32 S&W Long reamer I originally used has a revolver-style .315 cylindrical throat and was longer and “fatter” than I wanted, lengthing it to reduce the cylindrical ball seat a bit wouldn't hurt anything.  In spite of the oversized, too-long throat the little rifle shoots well with my normal revolver handloads using the 94-gr. Meister .312” flatnose and the LBT .312-105FNBB with 2.5 grs. of Bullseye, giving inch groups at 25 yards with iron sights.  The Saeco #325 SWC didn't do quite as well, but was still under 2 inches. The barrel is a 16” twist, .310 groove diameter, six groove normal form.  So I stuck the .32 HRM reamer in, and shot it again... UPDATE:  .32 S&W Long loads with heavier 100-130 grain bullets seated out, and loaded subsonic with 2.5 grs. of Bullseye, which shot best before in the original revolver-style chamber still do. They group no worse, but there was no improvement either.  They will just average 2 inches at 50 yards for a series of 5-shot groups with iron sights. My brother's 1894 Marlin is more consistent, but  heavier (my Bunny gun weighs 4 lbs. 6 ozs.) and is easier to shoot.  My .32 S&W Long revolver loads 122-gr. Saeco #322 crimped in the normal crimp groove, with 2.5 grs. of Bullseye, or NEI 130-gr. #82 loaded similarly do the same as before, about 2-1/2 to 3 inches at 50 yards, and the shorter 98-gr. Saeco #325 and 94-gr. Meister about 3 inches.  This is OK plinking accuracy in a very light rifle with iron sights.  None of the .32 H&R Magnum revolver loads I tried using the above cast bullets with 3.5 grs. of Bullseye powder did any better than my best .32 S&W Long loads whether seated out or not.  Heavier loads are no more accurate, only louder. Heavier .32 H&R Mag loads than listed in some manuals have been published for use in the Ruger revolvers by gun writers whom I won't name.  These caused some ugly looking primers which give a good visual indication of excessive chamber pressure with the large shotgun firing pin and un-bushed breech face!  However, 8 grs. of #2400 in Starline HRM brass with 100-gr. Hornady XTP hollowpoints drive nice clover-leafs at 25 yards and group about 2 inches at 50 yards, which will work fine to approximate a .32-20 if I want something more powerful than my popgun bunny loads.    I will stick to my normal .32 S&W Long "rifle” loads with the Saeco #322 or NEI #82 bullets seated out and crimped in the top lube groove with 2.5 grs. of Bullseye for most uses.   If I need to shoot revolver ammo using the same bullets and loads, crimped in the normal crimp groove, I'll can do so for expediency, but will settle for somewhat impaired, but adequate plinking accuracy...  I consider the experiment successful only because it gives me some greater flexibility in brass and ammo. My preference is for light, quiet loads, so I see nothing to recommend the .32 H&R Mag. over the .32 S&W Long in the “Bunny Gun” scenario, unless that is the reamer and brass you've got.   My brother's Marlin 1894C lever-gun has the XS “ghost ring” peep sight and white-line Patridge blade front sight.  It gives consistent 2” or smaller groups at 50 yards over a long series firing either the Lyman 115-gr. #3118, Saeco 122-gr. #322, Saeco 98-gr. #325 or 130-gr. NEI #82, all bullets as-cast, unsized at .314-.315,” tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox, and using 3.5 grs. of Bullseye in Starline .32 HRM cases with WSP primers across the board.   If anyone else is using the .32 H&R Magnum in a rifle with cast bullets I'd like VERY much to hear what bullets and loads you are using and the results you are getting.   

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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CB posted this 23 March 2008

and then re-chamber to .327 FedMag ???  Or is that a cartridge without a real purpose?;)

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RicinYakima posted this 23 March 2008

Ed,

My “Bunny Gun” is essentially complete, mechanically. The Remington 4 groove 03A3 barrel measures .301 by .309 and finished up at 21 inches after the chamber was removed. Six and half hours at the lathe getting it to final contour. The original 2 1/2” 410 bore chamber is a tight drive fit, and everything in front of the forcing cone floats.

After “proof” testing it with factory 32 H&R Magnum rounds, I have only shot 2.5 grains of 700X with the RCBS 98 SWC in 32 long brass and the same load in the magnum brass. The magnum brass seems to shoot better, but haven't done any load development yet, no time.

The reamer tapers from .314 just in front of the case at about a 7 1/2 degree angle, as best I can determine, down to a .299 pilot. I was differently made to use in a thirty caliber rifle barrel.

Pictures coming later, if anyone wants to see them.

Ric

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strateshot posted this 29 March 2008

Ed & Ric I have been following your efforts with interest.  As I related to you Ed previously I am using the Polish M-44 reconstituted barreled recievers, and my custom made stocks and custom made scope mounts.  I was initally very unhappy with results when shooting mil surp ammo, and tried most of the available alternatives in factory ammo.     I spent years at Fairchild, and Larson AFBs so I know your country well Ric.  Spent many Cold winters Keeping B-52s over your country.        I first followed Eds lead in using Red Dot to moderate loads for these rifles, and then moved down to the 8 gr loads with the normal 147gr Mil bullet.  Very good results out of the 20.5in barrel on the M-44, but a bit slow and low from the 28in 91-30 long rifle.      Now the good part!!  I have the 38 cal revolvers Ed recommended as the one pistol to own for self defence.  I have S&W mdl 15 6rnd and 5 rnd detectve special, Wife"s Pistol. I have carred one or the other of these for the last 25 years, and they have served me well.  I followed your leed and handloaded 158gr swc over 3.5gr red dot first and then 3.5 gr BE(25yr old cannister) and reslts have been excellent.  Wife and I both practice with these pistols, but are not quite as good as you fellows are.       Back to the “bunny rifles".  My Mosen rifles all slug .299-.300 by .0311-0312.  This is equivelent to new un issued Bls.  I am now shooting .312 Hornady SWC over 3.5gr BE or Red dot.  Very accurate in my best 91-30 rifle.  I just recieved Meister 100gr DEWC bullets, and they shoot as well.  My grandsons were out to shoot over this last weekend, and they make 70yr old grandpa look bad.  16yr  old Nathan places two 3rnd volleys with the 91-30 touching at 25 yds.  I realize that is not a great distance, but it truly reflects th ability of youth.  He wants to become a Policeman when he is old enough.     I am going to standerdise on the 3.5gr BE at least untill my cannister is empty.  I had previously done so with Red Dot, But It will Keep.  I also Chose to stock H4895 as well for heavy loads, as I do not trust the downloaded powder from milsurp.  I reload in Norma Brass for most lead rnds lite load, and do not have to resize between loads. This brass may last forever.     Milsurp I pull down, and reload 147gr hollow base lead core bullets from hungarian over 8gr red dot.  Very good shooting ammo. One time shot, but pretty cheap considering the results.  Very Quiet by comparison, and virtually no recoil.  The firs remark from the boys on saturday was ” Gee what happened to the recoil?"  They were very pleased.  Again, wish to thank you fellows for the wonderful service you have provided with cast bullets.     As a by word, 91-30 rifles can be had for 60.00$ and the M-44s for 69.00$.  You must be able to hand load to enjoy shooting the rifles, but they are accurate with cast bullets, and light loads.  Pretty Cheap fun shooting, and bunnies look out. Best Regards from Arizona, J. Parsons

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RicinYakima posted this 29 March 2008

Strateshot,

Firstly, thanks for your service to your country. I grew up under the flight path of Wright-Patterson AFB and well remember the flights of B-47 and B-52 roaring up into the sky.

My first “Bunny Gun” was a 1903 Springfield redone in 7.62 X 39 after reading Ed's articles on cast bullets in that round. Four grains of shotgun powder under a 173 grain lead bullet is a standard load.

Enjoy shooting with your grandkids, it is the highlight of my summers also.

Ric

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 30 March 2008

Hi, wow, I liked your post ;  bet you had a lot of fun tuning up all those  rifles .....  I grew up on a farm; my Granpa was a bee keeper, and taught me a lot about that; my dad and uncles all liked to hunt & fish, and taught me that ....  all my life, when city dudes console me for my unfortunate upbringing, I just laugh and laugh ... they will never understand, so just keep up with the Granpa stuff; you are adding much needed quality to the world.

And yeah, I got 7 grandkids 5-12 yrs, I got a .22 for each;  we shootem until one of the  them  starts acting like a kid; then put  em up for a week.  heh heh,  did you know kids act  like  kids just to see how much they can yank your chain?  They can go hours without breaking any of our shooter safety rules, but still cannot put up their toy trucks; if gramma is in the area (g).

Looks like 5 years from now CBA will be 90% bunny gun shooters (g).  Do we need a standardized Bunny target ??

regards,  ken campbell, iowa

 

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argie1891 posted this 31 March 2008

I have a 20 ga. almost ready to convert to 32-40. i am using a mauser 8mm blr. i dont think that .002 will make any difference. as Ric and i each built a 32 mag. and shoot together i can vouch for the accuracy of these bunny guns. I should have the reamer late next week and it will take a week or so to get sights, extractor,and tune it up. I am looking forward to shooting this larger bunny gun. joe aka argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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2Tite posted this 26 May 2008

Several years ago I put together 2 of these rifles almost exactly as you've described. That is, Topper shotguns and 30 cal barrels. My H&R reamer is ground for the 30 cal . My best accuracy to date is with the Lyman 311241 and Bullseye powder. The bullet seated out to slightly crush fit I can repeatedly shoot 5 shot groups at 50 yds that can be covered with a nickel. Groups at 100 yds avg 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches. One of these has a 16 ” barrel and is a little more difficult to shoot than the one with a 20 ” but they sure are fun guns.

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argie1891 posted this 26 May 2008

i too have found that the lyman 311241 has shot the best. i load it with 10 gr. of surplus 680 powder. last week i loaded some with the harris bullet nei #72 and 9 gr. of 680. i havent shot it for groups yet but the cases dont show high pressure signs. it sure looks funny that long bullet in such a short case.  joe gifford aka argie1891

if you think you have it figured out then you just dont understand

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6pt-sika posted this 11 June 2008

Ed , I am an advocate of the 32-20 and the 32 MAG of late .

Anyway I had never really thought to much about using them on deer . But lately I have been reading a couple articles Brian Pierce wrote in Handloader .

It started when he wrote an article a month or so ago about the 32-20 . In it he talks of loading the 32-20 with the Lyman 311316 and H-110 (12.5 grains) and getting about 1900 fps from a 24” barrel . Now I have a few 32-20 rifles and I think I will give this a try on paper at least .

But this bullet at even 1700 fps should do the job at 50 yards or less as well as my old 32-40 with the 170 grain cast bullet that was barely traveling at 1300 fps .

 

And that brings me to te 32 MAG . Pierce wrote another article a couple years ago when Ruger saw fit to bring the 32 MAG out agin in the little Single Six's that looked like Vaquero's . Anyway in a SIngle Six with a 5.5” barrel he says he is getting 12pp fps with the Lyman 311316 and H-110 (11 grains) . So If I use the same load in my little Marlin 1894CB in 32 H&R MAG that has a 20” barrel I should be able to get close to 1600 fps . I am kinda thinking if I keep the shots to 50 yards or less and am very picky about the shot I should be able to kill a smaller doe at least .

True this is not exactly what the rifle was made for , but it does make one think .>

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6pt-sika posted this 11 June 2008

Ed , all I have shot in my Marlin 32 MAG so far have been loaded with 3 grains of Unique ! And I used the Hornady 90 grain swaged , Lyman 311316 , Lyman 311419 , Saeco 322 and a couple Lee moulds that are not over 115 grains . All shot comparatively well .

 

Matter of fact in my Marlin 1894CCL 32-20 my current silhouette load is the Lyman 311316 and 5 grains of Unique .

 

When I first started with all these loads I normally shot at 25 and 50 yards . Which I still do with the 32 MAG . But I was surprised when the 32-20 was knocking over hunter pistol rams at 100 meters easily . And to be honest the Lyman 311419 did just as good a job . I might add even though this has nothing to do with the thread , my Marlin 1894CL in 25-20 loaded with the Lyman 257312 and 257420 and loaded with 5 grains of Unique also had enough zip to easily knock over the rams at 100 meters .

 

So all this leads me to believe the little 32 MAG rifle can pretty near do the same at 100 meters if I give it half a chance . I still in the back of my head would like to take one deer with the 32 MAG shooting the 311316 and H-110 , but this would have to be 50 yards or less .

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tturner53 posted this 01 December 2009

I'm getting ready to load the .32 HRM for a Ruger Single Six. As of now I don't have anything for this cartridge. But I do have a Lee mold, 309-113F that I can Beagle to .311. Is this a realistic choice for the .32 HRM, at least to get me started?  Your recommendations regarding dies, etc. would be appreciated. I've over extended myself on loading projects and need to keep costs down, looking at Lee molds and dies. Thanks   Tim

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billwnr posted this 01 December 2009

I had one load using the RCBS 98 grain cast bullet in the SSM that was very accurate. It was hard to find a load that wouldn't shoot good.

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RicinYakima posted this 01 December 2009

If I remember Ed's Ruger history correctly, they started with a .311” bore and .313” throats, then went to .308” and .310". At some point, they returned to the original size.

So you may be in luck with the Lee mould. And you can use 32 S&W long dies, that are dirt cheap used.

HTH, Ric

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tturner53 posted this 02 December 2009

Thanks for the info guys. I won't get my hands on the gun for a month or two to measure it. I have the serial number, 650-24xxxx. I'll see if I can learn anything about it using that.

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Ed Harris posted this 02 December 2009

Don't worry about the barrel groove diameter, just slug the cyli nder throats and look for a bullet which casts close to that size. In my Marlin 1894CB the chamber is large enough that I can load 115-gr. NEI #82 unsized at .315” and I use 3 grs. of Bullseye in .32 H&R Mag cases or 2.5 grs. in .32 S&W Long cases seated out and crimped in the top lube groove. Quiet, subsonic and accurate.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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tturner53 posted this 02 December 2009

Thanks Ed, I've been using more BE loads lately, I like the concept and the results have been good so far. I'm going to call Huntington's in Oroville to ask them to mike the throats if they have a slow day. It's the kind of place that would do that. It's a long drive up there and I don't expect to get the gun out of hock before Christmas. In the meantime I can gather my stuff up. It must be a virus, as I'm now reading up on the 32-20 that Ric likes so much. Yesterday looking through my cartridge collection I ran across a .256  Win. Mag., that's an interesting little cartridge. Might be a good bunny gun candidate for someone who likes oddballs.   Tim

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Ed Harris posted this 02 December 2009

I thoroughly enjoyed Ric's article on the .32-20 as well. A real contribution to the literature with sound info.

My experimentation with the .32-20 was short lived and frustrating. I could get better results in the .32 S&W Long with much less effort without fighting airspace in the case. A better stream of guns and brass being more common helped alot also. The .32 H&R Mag seems to do everything in a rifle that the .32-20 did, and makes more sense than the .327 Federal.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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RicinYakima posted this 02 December 2009

Thanks Ed, I'm glad you enjoyed the article.

I was introduced to the 32/20 in the early '60's when my Dad traded for a 6 inch Colt PP Special. Then when I moved to the West in 1970, they were very common out here. And, I'm just a romantic, I guess, as Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton both wrote about it and like the round.

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Ed Harris posted this 03 December 2009

RicinYakima wrote: I was introduced to the 32/20 in the early '60's when my Dad traded for a 6 inch Colt PP Special. Then when I moved to the West in 1970, they were very common out here. And, I'm just a romantic, I guess, as Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton both wrote about it and like the round.

I believe that the .32-20 as a rifle-revolver combo was more of a west-of-the-Mississippi thing, whereas in the East the .32 S&W Long was a common pre-WWII cop gun and many people had them for home defense. 

My observation is that the .32 S&W Long always had a following in the African-American community. This seems borne out in song and story, i.e. as in Jim Croce's song “Big Bad Leroy Brown."  I see a disproportionate number of used .32 revolvers in gunshops in the Southern states compared to other parts of the country, and old cops I talk to sing the same song.  My two cents.

73 de KE4SKY In Home Mix We Trust From the Home of Ed's Red in "Almost Heaven" West Virginia

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