223 Rem

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Gene posted this 21 March 2008

I just bought a Remington 700 SPSV in 223.

Now I need a bullet/load suggestion.

 

Thanks,

Gene Perryman:D

 

 

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CB posted this 22 March 2008

Try 6 grains of 2400 behind Lyman 225415. Either shoot the bullet unsized or if you size, not to less than .225". I think you will have better luck if you use a gas check at first. Plain base efforts can come after you see how it goes.

Similar charges of 5759 or perhaps Hodgdon's LilGun or 5744 or #9AA would be worth a try.

Seat the bullet out as far as it will chamber - or work through the magazine if you need that option.

Try wheelweights and linotype and see which works better.

Any reasonable lube should work. You may want to lube only the back groove or even just the gap ahead of the gas check.

Good Luck,

John

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Gene posted this 22 March 2008

John,

Thanks for the info.

I have discovered that I have a bur in my chamber, it's scratching my cases.  Is there any way I can remove the burr my self.  I don't want to send it back to Remington, as it would probably be several weeks before I got it back.  It also seems to have a very tight chamber, as some bullets that I had loaded for my AR15 wouldn't chamber in the 700.

Thanks,

Gene Peryman

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PETE posted this 22 March 2008

 Gene,

  Noty being familiar with the Twist rate of your gun I'll give you what I've got for my Savage with a 1-9” twist rate.

  First tho I think any decent local gunsmith with a chambering reamer should be able to cure that burr in your chamber.

  The first thing I did was to run the throat out on my gun so I could seat an 80 gr. bullet with just the gas check in the case. This is going to be used for CBA Postal competition, so might not be applicable for what you want to do.

  If all you want to do is shoot cast for the “fun” of it without altering your gun then John's advice would be the one to follow.

  The bullet I use is an LBT 225-85-SP cast of 50/50 Lino/WW. Weighs 80 grs. when thus cast. I use 11.4 grs. of IMR 4227. This gives a MV of 1870 fps. SD - 5.6 & ES = 11.5. 5 shot groups at 100 yds. will have groups running from  5/8” to 1 1/8".

PETE

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CB posted this 22 March 2008

Gene,

Pete is right, a gunsmith with a 223 chambering reamer should be able to get rid of the burr.

However, if it were my rifle and the burr wasn't too big and not on the shoulder or neck of the chamber, and the gunsmith was miles away as the nearest one is from here, I would see if I couldn't remove it myself.

I would drill out the base of a full length resized case and epoxy a piece of quarter inch diameter steel rod long enough so enough would stick out the back of the action when the case was in the chamber to allow it to be chucked in a drill (preferable a hand drill). Of course, the case and rod have to be straight.

Next embed some 300 or 350 grit abrasive in the body of the case by rolling it between two smooth steel surfaces. Wipe off abrasive from the shoulder and neck. You are not going to increase headspace enough to matter but no use polishing the shoulder and the neck is almost certainly bigger than needed. If the case with abrasive can be inserted almost all the way into the chamber give it a dozen or two turns while pushing it gently into the chamber, Wipe out the chamber of all grit and see if chambered case is still scratched.

If you can't almost chamber the case with the grit you may want to try a finer grit. This may not work if the burr is too gross. If it is I would send it back to Remington.

You may indeed have a tight chamber if fired cases from the AR 15 won't chamber. On the other hand the AR15 may have a loose chamber. If full length sized cases won't chamber, the the sizing die is out of spec or your chamber is.

Hope this helps.

John

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PETE posted this 22 March 2008

 John, or anyone,

  You bring up an interesting point. Do semi-auto's have looser chanmbers than bolt guns? I've never had a chance to check the idea out but was always under the impression they were. When I was shooting Hi-Power the old timers told me you always had to FL size your brass. Of course most of them were shooting Garands then so maybe this might not apply to the AR's or the more moderm semi-auto's.

PETE

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Gene posted this 29 March 2008

Alexander and Pete:

I bought my rifle from Dick's Sporting Goods and I called them and explained the problems, they then exchanged the rifle for a new one.

Like the original rifle it has a very tight chamber (a local gunsmith checked the chamber-it's OK)

The rifle has a 1 in 12 twist and from my barrel break-in session yesterday, it appears to be accurate.

My question is, are you turning the case necks down 1/1000 to facilitate seating the lead bullets and are you using a separate belling die for this such as the Lee Universal  Case Expanding Die?  I know before I try, my gun will never chamber a .225 bullet.

Even full length resizing my other  brass that was shot in my AR15, it will NOT chamber the the cases.  It will chamber cases fired in it, so I'm just going to neck resize.

Has anyone tried the Lee Collet Dies?

Thanks for you help  and advice.

Gene Perryman

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CB posted this 29 March 2008

Gene,

There are so many people making AR15 that I don't know if it's true for all, but yours probably has the military spec chamber which is larger than the SAAMI Remington 223 chamber so I would guess that's the root of the incompatibility with brass. However, that doesn't explain why your full length sizing isn't enough to chamber the sized brass in the 700. You might try another FL sizing die if you can borrow one from a friend.

I wouldn't neck turn the brass unless you have to. I would be very surprised if you can't chamber a round with a 225 bullet if the empty case will chamber before loading. Most manufacturers are very conservative about making the neck diameter of chambers oversized for safety reasons.

After firing a full charge load see if you 225 bullet will slip into the neck of the fired case. If it won't you have a very unusual rifle and one that might be dangerous. If a 224 bullet won't slip into the neck without applying force you should send the rifle back to Remington. But I suspect you will be able to slip 226 or even 227 bullets into the neck of the fired case.

A fair number of cast bullet shooters use the Lee Collet dies because you can adjust the neck tension to whatever is needed for the diameter of bullet you are shooting, and because the brass will last essentially forever. There have been several articles, including two I have written, in past Fouling Shots on the Collet Die.

John

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PETE posted this 29 March 2008

 Gene,

  John's pretty well answered your questions so I'll jusy say that, yes, I do bell the mouth of my cases, plus put a decent chamfer on the mouth. I do this with a Lyman “M” die that I make my own expanders that also bell the mouth. When loading the case the seating die is set to close that bell enuf so the case will just chamber. This helps to self-center the case in those factory chamber.

  You might also find that you will have to crimp the bullets in. Even if the bullet is set tight into the rifling. This has to do with the lack of bullet wgt. and the need to have enuf resistance to the pressure being built up at ignition. I find this is needed more in the sub .30 cal.'s than the ones over .30.

PETE

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Gene posted this 03 April 2008

Pete and John,

Yipee,,,,, I finally got my rifle to chamber my rounds that I loaded sveral years ago for my AR15.  They shot pretty good considering that my rifle is still in the break-in period and I'm using an adhoc rest.  The butt is not supported and my scope is bouncing around on the target like a cat on a hot tin roof!!!!

My questions are, is the MTM rifle rest a good buy and which Lee melter would you recommend?

 

Thanks,

Gene Perryman

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PETE posted this 03 April 2008

 Gene,

  I'll have to pass on both as I don't have any experience with either. Maybe John, or someone else, can help you out.

PETE

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CB posted this 03 April 2008

The MTM rest is made for hunting rifles and would be great for that. If you want to compete in bench rest matches, I'd make a choice for a better rest.

The Lee pots are a great value for the money. I have both a 10 pound and 20 pound bottom pour 110 volt pots. I like the 20 pound pot. When I cast, I cast the two-mould method and that takes a lot of lead. While one mould solidifies, I'm emptying the other and pouring again. The timing between using the two equals to a constant temp, not too hot and not too cold. Of course your 223 CBs won't use up too much lead  ;)  ...................Dan

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CB posted this 06 April 2008

Like Dan, I have both a ten pound and a twenty pound Lee pot and like both of them. They are both better than the more expensive pot I had of another brand. I usually use the ten pounder since I mostly cast 22 bullets.

John

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Gene posted this 08 April 2008

John,

Which type of melter do you recommend, the regular or the bottom pour?

Thanks,

Gene Perryman

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CB posted this 08 April 2008

I prefer to ladle my bullets, I get a better quality bullet. Can't seem to get the bottom pour thing right and end up with a ton of rejects.

I do like the Lee pots as well, they give the desired results for 1/4 of the price of a Lyman or RCBS.

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Gene posted this 08 April 2008

Jeff and John,

I want to get started ASAP.  I'm going to use the two mould method, so I'm going to get a 224 and a 429 mould. Cast for my Remington 700 and my Marlin 1894 at the same time.

I'm going to go with a mould that casts at least a .225 bullet for my Remington 700 223 Rem.  Now the groove diameter on the Marlin is .431, so I need an .432 bullet, will the available moulds from Lee, Lyman, and RCBS cast a .432 bullet???   The Lyman Casting book says with #2 it casts a .225  bullet for the 223 and it only casts a  .431 bullet for the 44

 

Please advise.

 

Thanks,

Gene Perryman

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Paul Pollard posted this 08 April 2008

I just got my 225 60 SP last month from LBT and shot it in the March match. He will cut the mold to cast larger than your spec. I spec'd mine at 225 min and it cast .2265 from cavity #1 (outboard), weighed 55.8. Inboard cavity is .2258 and weighs 55.5 grains. They are .660 long as cast; with gas check and tapered in a 45 minute per side die, they finish at .681 long.

Just for good measure, I also ordered a 225 55 SP and received it in under 2 weeks. Just cast some of these up and they measure 50.2 from the same alloy (about 75% lead) and these 2 cavities are almost identical at .2258 and 2260. The weights are very close on this mold. Length is .625 as cast and finish at .638” long when tapered the same way.

These also fall out of the mold without beating it to death. (no hammering at all).

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linoww posted this 08 April 2008

Sounds like Veral did as good a  job on yours as he did mine.How do you like your tapered .22  bullets ?.I have found them pretty foregiving on factory throats.I have an Eagan taper die for 22's i use soemtimes,but my LBT tapered bullet does pretty well as it.(Its actually stepped,not tapered).My plain-jane Stevens 200 sporter 22-250 will shoot alot of 1"-1-1/4” groups with the LBT 60 SP I had Veral made.I  just got a SAECO 60SP and the GC shank is way too short,have to send it back.The dimensions seem fair though.Have you shot the SAECO design much??

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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linoww posted this 08 April 2008

The rifle has a 1 in 12 twist “

I shoot a .720” long  bullet it 1-12 Savage 22-250 and they stabalize fine @ 1900-2200fps.Your rifle should work well for heavier/longer bullets assuming the throating will handle the design you choose.Or you have a die to alter them to your throating.

George

"if it was easy we'd let women do it" don't tell my wife I said that!

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Paul Pollard posted this 08 April 2008

Geo,

Mine are straight bullets from the mold; I taper them in a die which was the same throater reamer which I used on the throat in the rifle. The 14 twist seems to stabilize the 225-60 bullet at 2700. It might not be stable at much lower speed. I'll do some testing to find the lowest speed possible with it. The 55 should be stable down to 1800 and maybe a little slower.

The really good feature is the gas check shank which is small enough that I just set the gas check in the bottom die of the lubesizer, set the bullet on it and pull the handle to seat the gas check in a .226 sizer die. Then it's over to the press-mounted .225 push thru die with no lube at all. Next, it's back to the lubesizer for lube, then to the bump die for tapering and maybe a slight bump if needed to flatten the base. Usually it's just a slight pressure with no shortening of the bullet. Lately, I've been filling the lube groove. Oh, these are one-lube-groove bullets.

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 10 April 2008

Hi Paul, following your career shooting .22 etc with much interest.  Between not finding ( free or cheap ) lead nowadays, and my shooter buddy and I welding up a bullet trap on wheels ( g) I am thinking about switching to the little guys, probably .243 to cut the cost of good alloy, which I prefer to buy ready to cast.  such as Magma alloy.       Anyway, I noticed this thread you mentioned your alloy for your .22 mold is 75% lead ... more info please, did you mean 1 wheelweights, 3 scrap lead ... or .... if Veral made your mold for 92-6-2 and you are running it a lot harder even ... that could explain the .2265 dia you are getting.         Keep us informed ... since the last nats maybe there is hope for small bores .. ( and Rugers !!!! ) ...

regards, ken campbell, iowa

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