Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 30.06

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  • Last Post 02 February 2010
[email protected] posted this 13 April 2008

      I picked up the above rifle recently. It looks like one of those rifles that all it ever did was go deer hunting here in Pa. The first thing I did with it was load up some of my tried and true 180gr. 307 Saeco cast and head for the range. I relearned another lesson. Always make sure the scope mounts and scope are tight. They wearn't and it shot terrible.  I wonder if that was the  reason the owner got rid of it.

      I brought the gun back home and took it apart. Now I have dissasembled lots of bolt actions and ” tuned them up ” but never a pre 64 model 70. Pre 64's were always something Jack O'Conner and gun writers wrote about or I saw in the out of my leauge rack at the gun stores. Until this one came along.

      Taking it apart, the 4th screw that goes into the lump on the barrel raised a question. How tight should one tighten it? It seems to me that screw could cause problems. I didn't see any evidence that the rifle had ever been apart before. The screw was “scary tight". The rest of the action screws were reasonable.

     I guess what I'm asking is: Does any one have some experience with problems associated with that 4th screw?

     The second question I have is: Were these model 70s factory drilled and taped for scope mounts?  The serial number is in the 310xxx range. It does look like it was factory drilled for a reciever sight.

     Anyhow after tightining up the scope I took the rifle back to the range and got a 2 inch 100 yard group using the 307 Seaco and 36 grains of Varget. Maybe I shouldn't worry about the screw. I was also able to hit the 8 ” gong at the range 3 out of 4 times offhand at  200 yards. There is something about the old rifle.  No wonder they call it the riflemans rifle

Flashman

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RicinYakima posted this 13 April 2008

Flashman,

Pre-1964 Model 70 lovers will hate me, but I've only had two in my life. Everything that shows on the outside is well finished. The parts that don't show look like they were chopped out of a steel block with a hatchet. Never the less, their barrels were very well made and the bore finish is excellent.  

Since I live in the desert, what I am about to say may vary depending upon where you live. The two that I have and all of my collector friends have issues with stock bedding on these. The “4th screw” that you mention is the kind of a fail safe. By keeping enough tension on the barrel, as long as the humidity stays the same, it will stay in zero. The norm here is to turn it down till the barrel touches the fore end bedding and then 1/4 turn more. This is not something that is glass bedded, as the fore end acts as a spring against the barrel. Free floating pre-64 barrels is only for when the bedding is so bad, anything that helps is considered an improvement.

One thing you need to look at is the “3rd screw", the one in the middle of the action. Model 70 receivers are very light and easy to bend. If the bedding is bad, you can bend the action in the middle like a spring. O'Conner suggested throwing it away, but collectors that keep theirs, just put lock-tight on the screw and barely snug it up so it doesn't get lost.

Growing up in the Post WWII Model 70's heyday, I still think they were the best looking commercial rifle ever made in the USA. But you can't just glass bed the action, free float the barrel and expect it to shoot like a Remington 700. It will shoot better, you just have to work at it.

Ric

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6pt-sika posted this 14 April 2008

I've owned five Pre 64 Model 70's over the years !

My first was a 1956 vintage 243 with a factory stainless varmint barrel . This one was glass bedded and free loated when I got it . Used it for quite a few years for groundhogs !

At the same time I had the 243 Varmint I got a 220 Swift (1960 vibtage)also with a factory stainless Varmint barrel . This one was also bedded and floated when I got it .

Both of those rifles would easily keep 5 shots in half an inch at 100 yards . But that was with 20x Leupold and Nosler BT bullets !

The same time I had the two Varmint rifles I also had a 22 Hornet of 1938 vintage that had been reblued and had the stock refinished . This one amazingly shot the best of any 22 Hornet I ahve ever owned ( I've had six) . Shot great with Nosler 40 grain BT's . Would usually keep five in 3/4 to 1” at 100 !

 

Also during the time I had those three I had picked up a standerd weight 1961 vintage Model 70 in 264 WIN MAG . This one shot the Nosler 120 grain BT very well and I killed quite a few deer with this combination . Also then I had one of the then NEW Leupold 4.5-14 scopes on top !

Now the only Pre 64 Model 70 I have is a Featherweight 243 of 1959 vintage. Got this one at a semi local auction about a 8 months ago for the ingodly summ of $425 dollars . The gun is an honest 95% and the bore is like brand new ! I've not done much with this one other then shimming the action up in the stock so as to float the barrel . But it shows promise with the Nosler 95 grain BT and the Hornady 95 grain SST !

 

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PETE posted this 14 April 2008

 Flashman,

  I've got a pre-64 Mod. in .30/06 to. Made in 1947 IIRC. Actually my gun shoots a LOT better if I just leave that 4th screw out. Got it put away in the shooting box so if I ever sell (fat chance) it I know where it's at.

  What I've found with guns set up with a barrel screw is that they can work for you or against you. If you want to leave it in the best thing I've found is to find what torque on the screw gives you the best accuracy. When you're done shooting loosen the screw. As the weather changes the tension will also change due to changes in the stock.

  Will have to try Ric's idea. Sounds reasonable.

  Often wondered why they had so many screws holding things together. Two should have been plenty. Anybody got any ideas??

PETE

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CB posted this 14 April 2008

RicinYakima wrote: Growing up in the Post WWII Model 70's heyday, I still think they were the best looking commercial rifle ever made in the USA. I liked the Winchester M54 for looks. :D  It too had the barrel screw. The couple I've messed with have their quirks, never a solution. Rick's suggestion of just lock-tighting the screw loose is the best I've found. A floated barrel is best for a consistent zero from day to day, season to season................Dan

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6pt-sika posted this 14 April 2008

Dan Willems wrote: I liked the Winchester M54 for looks. :D  ................Dan

I would truely love to have a Model 54 that has not been dicked with in 30 WCF !

That to me would be the ultimate bolt action cast bullet hunting rifle ;)

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[email protected] posted this 15 April 2008

      Thanks for the responces to my questions about the model 70.

Concerning the action screws : My procedure for tightening any bolt action screws is to run the recoil lug and tang screws down just enough to make sure the action is in the stock lined up and such. Then I torque the recoil lug screw. Then the tang screw. Getting them both even by feel. We aren't torqueing diesel engine head bolts or something so the screws don't have to be "scary tight". Just tight enought o keep everything where it belongs. I'd rather have a screw come loose than be overthightend and damage something. The middle third screw of the other post 64 model 70s I own I just barely snug. That just seemed like the reasonable thing to do. I did the same with the new pre 64. The lock tight idea sounds like a good idea. What a better place to store an unneeded screw that you don't want to loose?

I'm going to load up a bunch of 150gr cast plinking loads and try to wear that model 70 out. While I'm at it I'll fiddle with that 4th screw and if I learn anything I'll report my findings.  This might take a while.

Thanks again. Gotta' go prepare some brass. Flashman

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Ken Campbell Iowa posted this 18 April 2008

Hi, I had a 54 with a mint barrel, looked to be a winchester rebarrel, I guess.  A guy was rebuilding his 54 to ” restore” condition, and my rig except for the barrel was not quite that good I sold him my pretty blue barrel.   Anyway, I have a nice 54 Action ( 30-06 mag spacer ) with original fruity schnabel stock extra. Would sell or trade ( ya gotta .222 remmy/722/700 action?  ), since I have another M54 with a trick stock and a genuine by golly B&L Bal8 in B&L mounts.  and yeah, I love that old M54, just think the guys that crafted it have been gone for 40 years ... regards, ken campbell,deltawerkes

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WyoCollector posted this 30 May 2009

Quoting from a previous post, all Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 30.06 owners will not care for my experiences and thoughts. But I wanted to ask in an open forum and garner from those most experienced with this rifle.  My father owned a Win Model 70-06 that he purchase brand new in 1952-53.  I thought then and still do it was and is the most beautiful of hunting rifles. However at the age of ten I accompanied him to the firing range.  Firing new factory ammo he fired the rifle from the standing position and it exploded into three pieces with shell brass and steel fragments going into his face and through the thick steel door of a 1951 Lincoln.  He lived losing his right eye and sued Winchester arms and ammo including the hardware store where it was bought.  An examination of the rifle shows that the bolt face extractor is not closed and leads directly back to the safety and shooters face.  The explosion never determined it a pierced primer blowback or the causation.  However at that time there were three other similiar incidents of explosions and injuries to shooters with the same model rifle.  I grew up with that memory and purchased a Rem Model 700 with locking lugs closed face bolt and gas ports, as well as a 300 Weatherby Mag MK 5 with seven locking lugs and gas ports.  I would never fire or be compelled to fire a Pre-64 Win Model 70 30.06!  Does anyone have any knowledge on this tragic weakness in this beautiful weapon?  I notice the post models have gas ports. Thanks!

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wraco posted this 26 January 2010

WyoCollector wrote: Quoting from a previous post, all Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 30.06 owners will not care for my experiences and thoughts. But I wanted to ask in an open forum and garner from those most experienced with this rifle.  My father owned a Win Model 70-06 that he purchase brand new in 1952-53.  I thought then and still do it was and is the most beautiful of hunting rifles. However at the age of ten I accompanied him to the firing range.  Firing new factory ammo he fired the rifle from the standing position and it exploded into three pieces with shell brass and steel fragments going into his face and through the thick steel door of a 1951 Lincoln.  He lived losing his right eye and sued Winchester arms and ammo including the hardware store where it was bought.  An examination of the rifle shows that the bolt face extractor is not closed and leads directly back to the safety and shooters face.  The explosion never determined it a pierced primer blowback or the causation.  However at that time there were three other similiar incidents of explosions and injuries to shooters with the same model rifle.  I grew up with that memory and purchased a Rem Model 700 with locking lugs closed face bolt and gas ports, as well as a 300 Weatherby Mag MK 5 with seven locking lugs and gas ports.  I would never fire or be compelled to fire a Pre-64 Win Model 70 30.06!  Does anyone have any knowledge on this tragic weakness in this beautiful weapon?  I notice the post models have gas ports. Thanks! That was a tragic story .  .   :(  .  . Puts me in mind of the very early 1903 Springfield Military Rifles where the receivers were single heat treated. The receivers when heated prior to quenching in water were done so by eye. An experienced worker with a good eye for heat color would heat the receiver and when the desired color was obtained, would quench the receiver in water. When this was done outside in the daylight, and on a lot of occassions in sunlight, the receivers were over heated when quenched, causing then to be very brittle. Some of these exploded when fired and not the first shot either.

This was rectified by employing a double heat treating method with accurate temperature indictors.  That's why 1903 Springfields below certain numbers from the two plants are not considered safe to shoot. No one knows which ones were heat treated outside in the daylight.

A couple of things come to mind with a pre 64 M70 exploding. Headspacing and receiver heat treating. It's not a perfect world and mistakes happen. That rifle should not have exploded. I heard of gas escaping rearward but not exploding. After reading your post I checked 2 of my pre 64 M70's and looking through the gas escape hole while closing the bolt I can see enough of an opening for the gas to escape. I have 10 pre 64 M70's, but did not check them all, but the 2 I did check did have enough space for gas escape.

Been collecting and shooting these guns a long time and to me, they are the high point  in American Gun Making.

 

Regards:

Rod

 

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galenaholic posted this 27 January 2010

I've always felt that the coned breech of the Pre-64 M70's was a mistake. Sure it made for some very slick feeding but the base of the cartridge case is slightly unsupported and most kabooms I've heard of had to do with the brass letting go at that point, probably due to too hot ammo.

With that said, I've had three Pre-64 M70s and didn't keep them very long. One, I fel they'e too heavy and two I never liked the coned breech idea. Frankly, and this is strictly my personal opinion, I much prefer a well tuned up 98 Mauser to a Pre-64 M70 in exactly the same condition if wanting a controlled feed rifle..

I still have a few Post 64 M70's, actulaty they're Post 68's, a .243 on their long action that is a tack driver, acouple of the Featherweights, one a .257 Bob and the other a 7x57, a short action .308 and a 24” synthetic stocked XTR in .270 Win. that is so accurate that it is scary. I also have on in synthetic in .300 Win. Mag. that is also extremely accurate. None of the Pre-64s ever came close to those when it comes to accuracy. I like them.

Again, JMHO but I think they're over rated.:coffee

Paul B.

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CB posted this 28 January 2010

I recently had a chance to pickup a pre 64, M70 in 30-06, with a factory Mannlicher stock. The price was right, low mileage, really good care, $1,500. I didn't have that much money on me. The guy who did got it. You win some and you lose some.

Jerry

 

 

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[email protected] posted this 02 February 2010

Anyhow, my oldest son got to coveting that Model 70 so I gave it to him for Christmas. I had to many irons in the fire anyhow. I have a very early Remington 700 in 222 that I actually like better than the Winchester. I hope the sons don't start coventing it also !
Always great to get all the feedback. Thanks Flashman

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CB posted this 02 February 2010

I like the early Rem 700s, had one in 243, great shooter.

Jerry

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